Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: azrael71 on June 06, 2010, 09:51:53 AM
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Morning All,
I have just bought a decent sized bret army and was hoping for some sage advice on rounding it out.
I have never played with or against Bretonnians, but my plan was to charge all none BP units out to soften up the enemy then use the knights to win the day.
I like to have around 3k of troops to be able to select a 2k force.
The list a present looks like this:
1 General
2x Hero on Pegasus - I will swap these out for 2 on foot for flexibility
2x enchantresses (on unicorns) - I will swap these out for 2 on foot for flexibility
2x Peasants
2x Men at Arms
4x Bowmen
5x Squires
5x Knights
2x Grail knights
2x Pegasus knights
1x trebuchet
2355 points
I was thinking of adding 1 unit of knights, dropping a unit of squires and then blocking up all the infantry units to 4.
Is this a good idea or do I need more?
Might also see about the hippogriff and grail wagon but these will be a way off.
Also any tactical advice is very much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Mick
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Hey Mick
I generaly use around 5 units of knights, for a BP of 3, take squires at ratio 2k-1squire and flesh out the rest of the army with foot (with a preference for archery units as stopping units by confusion allows you to set them up for a knight charge.
I think Gerald is oneof the more experienced Bretonia players so I would definitly listen to his take on them (but just remember that my Dwarfs took his Bretonians last EuroGT 8) :o ;)
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In my opinion the pegasus for the heroes are quite useless as they will only be used as commanders. (I only use the models for looks)
The only characters that I would attach to a unit are the entchantresses for the shield of combat ability and there the unicorn comes in handy. (though teh +1 usually fails when needed, thanks to my dice. :D )
I wouldnt take to much peasants as they are only good at catching cannonballs and arrows. I would say 1 unit per infantry brigade is the absolute maximum. If they end up alone somehow thanks to shooting or combat they are impossible to command especially when a stand is lost, enemy nearby etc.
Squires can really be the backbone of the army. Used in a brigade of 4 they can focus fire really well and are also not a target of choice for the enemy just because of lots of stand and shoot hits. A perfect shield to hide your knight brigades behind and offensively they are just as usefull for flankcharges as knights.
Knights, Pegasus Knights and Grailknights well they speak for themselves. I think you should have at least a BP of 4 but again thats personal taste.
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Drop the Trebuchet, or take 2;
BUT, you always keep units around there; cause one flyer charge and the are gone.
My personal style is to keep the BP very high -> max. knights and less inf.
SpiritusX goes the other way; a lot of inf as a shield, and around BP 3 of knights.
Try out the bretons and find your style.
cheers stefan
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Drop the Trebuchet, or take 2;
BUT, you always keep units around there; cause one flyer charge and the are gone.
My personal style is to keep the BP very high -> max. knights and less inf.
SpiritusX goes the other way; a lot of inf as a shield, and around BP 3 of knights.
Try out the bretons and find your style.
cheers stefan
Aren't you limited to one Trebuchet no matter how how many points in your army?
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I think Gerald is oneof the more experienced Bretonia players so I would definitly listen to his take on them (but just remember that my Dwarfs took his Bretonians last EuroGT 8) :o ;)
:) But of course it's an honour to lose against such an experienced player as you are. My knights just were too eager to fight that day and you knew perfectly how to use that!
I think Dwarfs and Bretonnians should be friends anyway, fighting their foes together not fighting each other... :D
Back to topic. Azrael, I think you have a very good approach to the army. A lot good hints have been mentioned already (it seems that austria definitely is bretonnian land as most hints are from here :)) but in the end it's all a question of personal taste.
I try to always go towards a breakpoint of 4 or 5. Depending upon that I am building knightly brigades of 3 or 4 so that the game never ends when losing one brigade.
At 3000 2 peasants are quite ok (if you want to scratchbuild grails pilgrims you should go for four. As a brigade of 3 peasants + 1 grail pilgrim unit they are most effective).
I always put only one peasant unit into a brigade so that they are not stranded alone too often (and I always smile when an opponent goes on advancing to them because that will be a gain for me mostly). But they are also good as cannon fodder (especially with Aerial Shield as a help).
5 or 6 squires are perfect. Maybe take 5 units of bowmen at 3k. It's a matter of mood what I am taking for my games. Sometimes I take more cavalry commoners sometimes more infantry. When going against undead for example I prefer lots of infantry as numbers are decisive there. Also it helps against Chaos (imo) because you can slow them down perfectly and lose less points on the way. Against Orcs I would take more Squires as it helps against the 4 attacks of the Orcs when you have less front edge.
The only thing I would change is the number of men at arms especially when considering the tactic you are planning (I would take 5 at 3k). If you want to send in your commoners aggressively bowmen are less helpful as normally you will wait to be attacked with them while men at arms can go for it.
I personally dislike the trebuchets as you have to change your whole army fitting to them (and the tactic you should play with that army is not too bretonnian imo). Still they can be interesting to play for a change. But I agree with Schindbua - if you take them take two (because that could be worth all the efforts of designing the army around it).
@wellspring: Have a look at the Trial army list at Lex's Warmuster site. In the section about recommended tournament army lists you'll find the new bretonnian army list with pegasus knights, grail pilgrims and changed trebuchets.
I think Bretonnians are not the Uber-army (at least I think so ;)) but they are quite stylish and fun to play with especially as with this army you really can send your commoners to the fight without thinking too much about it (with this army I really learned how well simple infantry can do). But on the other hand you really have to know when to send in your knights. Too early and you lose by breakpoint (see my game against Lex). Too late and you might not have gained enough victory points. Especially the Pegasus Knights are tricky to use if you do not want to give the opponent a breakpoint-present.
Hope that helped,
Gerald
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5x Knights
2x Grail knights
2x Pegasus knights
1x trebuchet
A friend of mine has just got himself a Bretonnian army. I was looking at the list on the GW website. It seems like the Empire list, but with fewer choices. The grail knights are slightly different i guess.
I noticed you've chosen pegasus knights. My question is...... is there a list anywhere else that has pegasus knights as a troop choice???
If so, it'll certainly make my friends army more interesting ;)
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Have a look at
http://sites.google.com/site/wmplaytest/work-in-progress-1/publications
under
Warmaster_Trial_Armies_2009.pdf
The section Tournament list covers army lists with changes that would be recommended for tournaments. There you'll find the new bretonnians.
And the special breakpoint rule the bretonnians have makes quite a difference compared to empire - even without Pegasus Knights ;)
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That's brilliant, thanks spiritus. I'll print that out for my friend. Love the other armies as well.
Do people just buy lots of Bretonnian character packs for the pegasus knights? or is there another company that sells them?
There's also no trebuchet figure on Games Workshops website. I think i've seen one on a warmaster ancient site somewhere.
Has anyone built a Grail Reliquae? (I'm assuming you have to scratch build these)
EDIT..... i've just found one 10mm Trebuchet in the uk. Just incase anyone else is also searching for one, here it is... http://www.oldgloryuk.com/disp_item.php?c=343&oc=4162
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Pegasus Knights: Some friends around here really took characters on pegasus. I took Knights of the Realm and mounted some giant eagle wings on them. Most find one Pegasus per base is enough.
Grail Reliquae: You have to scratchbuild them. Could be that in the next Warmuster issue there's a photo of mine. And somewhere around here there's another photo of built Grail Reliquae. If I just remembered who it was...
Trebuchet: Was part of the Siege equipment GW produced. Unfortunately out of print. The treb on the picture you linked seems quite big to me. It should fit on a 6x4cm base. Could be that Kallistra produces one too...
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If you want I have a unit of grail knights you could use.
Looking for any other bret unit in exchange :)
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Is it a real GW trebuchet ? I seldom see any picture. Could you take some for us ? Do you have servants with it ?
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Have you tried the warmaster magazines.
Most of the rare stuff has pictures in there.
They are also collectable :P
Is it a real GW trebuchet ? I seldom see any picture. Could you take some for us ? Do you have servants with it ?
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There's a photo of the original GW trebuchet in the new Warmuster issue too.
http://sites.google.com/site/wmplaytest/warmuster---the-fan-zine
Greetings,
Gerald
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I have the warmaster magazines but b&w photos are not very beautifull. I only had an other one.
I've downloaded warmuster #2 but hadn't read it yet. I will have a look.
But if you can produce a good photos of the servants, i'm interested :)
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Not Warmaster Magazines! Warmuster Magazine Issue #2 - Brandnew!
http://sites.google.com/site/wmplaytest/warmuster---the-fan-zine
Use the link above. Treb servants are in the photo of the trebuchet and mangonel.
Greetings,
Gerald
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I was responding to that :
Have you tried the warmaster magazines.
And yes i've read Warmuster#2. I founded it less interesting than the first one. I'm not fond of new rules. But this is not the subject of this thread.
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I was responding to that :
Have you tried the warmaster magazines.
And yes i've read Warmuster#2. I founded it less interesting than the first one. I'm not fond of new rules. But this is not the subject of this thread.
neither is looking for new models.
It is about seeking advice for a new bretonnian army >:(
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Is it a real GW trebuchet ? I seldom see any picture. Could you take some for us ? Do you have servants with it ?
I just replied to this. The photo of the Tribock in Warmuster #2 in fact pictures the GW Trebuchet. It's the same model (the renaming just was necessary because of rules-issues).
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I have never play with bretonnians (I have a little army waiting for painting).
Has anybody tried to use it as an horde army using peasnts and few knight for hard hitting?
Does makes sense my proposal?
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I wouldnt recommend it, except maybe against undead enemies where your infantry can actually do something. :)
The problem is not that the knights cant hit hard, but if you dont hit your enemy decisively, you will mostly face a countercharge where you need to be able to loose at least some of them. I would at least recommend a bp of 4 and always watch your opponents flying units, they can take your offensive power before you now it if you arent careful.
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:( Unfortunately (although a nice idea) with such an army played to the extreme you really have to hide your three or four units of knights behind and have to hope they won't get attacked (which could even be fuelling the constant opponent's mockery about the cowardly knights >:(). And it will be very risky to use your knights for the urgent needed punch.
The minimum breakpoint I would aim for is 3 (so at least 5 units of knights, better 6). I would then form three brigades of two units (so that your breakpoint is not cracked in one easy sweep). But Guthwine is right, keep an eye on those flying knight-killers (even weak units can kill you when coming from the flank). And with those three brigades you have a little punch when needed.
That should still give you some points for some commoners.
I would not aim at that army list when beginning Bretonnians but such an army can be fun to play as a variant once in a while.
Greetings,
Gerald