Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: wellspring on June 17, 2010, 06:34:22 PM
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I was looking for some advice on how to use a Lizardmen army-- especially how to position my Saurus and Skink units. Should I line them up skinks in front of sauruses, for example? Or stick them in the back to bulk out my breakpoint? Or use them in terrain to harrass cavalry? Since Skinks can shoot all-around, I was even thinking of putting them in a block formation facing sideways to maximize the shots per frontage (cheesy I know). I've noticed that many army lists load up on the skink units.
Has anyone written up a primer on Lizardmen tactics? Not so much which units to bring (I've printed up paper markers for practice and planning my army buy) but how to best use them.
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i would love to hear more on this topic as well!
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It´s depending on.
My 2.000 Pts army set up were looking like this s in most cases.
Slann
3 Skink Heroes
2 Skink Shaman
Sometimes a Saurus Hero on Carnosaur.
7 units of Saurus Warriors
4 units of Skinks
1 units of Kroxigors
4 units of Cold One Riders
2 Units of Terradons.
35 pts free to spend on (Ring of Magic + Sword of Fate)
Tactic is quite easy.
Make 3 -4 brigades of Foot troops ...the skinks in line at the front and behind the Saurus warrirors and Kroxigors in Column.
Try to move the first when commanding as with them you dictate your game.
Cold One Riders behind as 2nd wave in 2 brigades of 2 and each acccompanied with 1 unit Terradons.
Use terrain as much as you can....its the friend of each Lizzardmen ;D
Depending on your opponent and his army set up you can position your terradons on the edges left and right in command range of Skink....if their are valuable targets (cavalry) to catch them at their edge try to command them normal way to attack or with magic
nasty tactic: Move them 100cm with first command in their edge....attach skink shaman....try to cas "Wings of Jungle" by using Slann as Focus ... if you are succesfull you see if your opponent has a Scroll of Dispelling. If he does not have you can charge now....if he has ....you still have the Ring of Magic to try once more ;D
Back to the Core of your army ... the Saurus warriors.
Position skind heroes in elypse range of Slann so that everyone of them can get "Divine guidance" ... is like having 3 comand value 9 heroes.
Move them forward with maximum 2 commands on each brigade (you have only 20cm command range for "Cold blooded Troops") Try to attack the opponents foot troops and do as much damage as possible (you have in most cases the better troops to do so) Leave the skinks back or use them to get support when charging....they are cheap and they are the ones that should die if somethingis going wrong ;)
And again...use terrain as much as you can.
Your Cold Ones are the heavy hitting part that no one can ignore...they are your 2nd support and countercharge wave and in case needed you can do also real offensive part by using support magic (Wings fo the Jungle)
Final advice.
Keep the army together in an area and don´t spread your troops over the whole table ...if you do so you will lose for shure....but that´s valid for each army.
Cheers
Claus (nasty Lizzardmen player :D )
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great info. thanks.
how do you find the stegadon?
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I find the Stegadon useless and never use in games bellow2500 point.
For the 250 points I can get allmost 4 units of Saurus warriors that have in total 26 hitpoints, 5+armor save, and 60 attack when they charge.
So ask once more (and this time from my side) ..... how do you find the stegadon.
O.K. It´s nice model (I got both ...the standard one and the crested one) but in terms of tactical game play the standard troops .... here especially the saurus warriors are the best choice.
Cheers
Claus
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Obviously Claus is the man when it comes to lizardmen.
But I do find the psychological effect on an opponent that the steg has, can seriously distract them from your real plan of attack.
That and the enjoyment of watching it chew up his best cavalry as it rampages around the board. :)
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what about using it in conjunction with skinks as a mobile missile base, abeit a very short ranged one
wouldn't most people shoot at the steg rather than the skinks?
in addition, they wouldn't it add a little umph to a brigade with skinks not hindered by the cold blooded rule?
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@Azrael
I would say this falls under lessons for advanced game play ;)
Lesson 1:
Learn the advantages of your army at your best and use it that way.
Lesson 2:
Sometimes use big bad monsters....they are not worht their points (compared to standard troops)....but every one fears them and can´t tend to ignore them.
My experience with Stegadon is that it most time does not see a close combat as I eithe can´t give a succesfull command to get it charging.....or opponent allways tries to avoid it....so therefore my statement. But of course it has it worth ....because opponents seem to be terrified by it and have to change their plant.
@Fracas
In term of Stegadon+Skink Brigade.
Do it ... come to Austria ... and I show you how to kill this Brigade very easy. It´s a gift for your opponent if you do so.
Charge with 2-3 units heavy hitters in the front (cavalry or even foot troops) Concentrate your attacks on the skinks (they have no armor save) and place one unit in the back of the stegadon (1cm away)
You have to win this combat only by 1 and you killed a stegadon and most probably 2 or more units of Skink.
(point value of minimum 320 points) !!!!
Lesson 3:
Remain unpredictable...act in several games allways the same. Opponent that you regularily play with will start to think you will allways act this way....and then start to change your acting.
Also use the psychological game play.....you ask what this is ?
Easy to explain....when they move their units start to smile heavily and if they ask why you smile....say "nothing ... I only have one good idea now" or "Fine ... I know now an excellent opportunity"...etc.
This way you start to make them think twice and acting more carefully ... and they finally give away the biggest opportunity in this game which is.....tadam ..... "Warmaster Loves the one who is chargin first"
Lesson 4:
Finally and then you became allready an expert.....allway remember that you play a game dictated by succesfull command roles with 2 dice. This said....."Luck is big part of it".....
Act and move the way as if all the times something could get wrong .....you will not be able to avoid it....but you will be able influence the result.
Lesson 4,5:
Sometimes you should also do some risky charges.....allways check the opportunitys that are offered to ....
if you can win much more with a risky charge then you lose if it fails....do it....this way you can win a game in the 2nd turn as you heavily destroy the plans of your opponent.
I mean:
You can charge with 1 unit of flyers in the edge of 2 units of Cavalry but you have to cross the whole battlefield and in next turn you probably will lose the flyer because of the countercharge.....GO FOR IT .... you can kill 2 fast heavy hitting units (220 points and lose one of yours 70-80 points) Your opponent will feel the missing 2 units of knights and especially will act more carefully or will have to take more risk.
Also ....try to dictate the game. Force your opponent to do that what you want him to do....this is not easy to explain but you will learn how to do during your gaming career.
But I agree ... there are multiple ways to play this game and to win it. You allways have to set up an army composition allowing you to be flexible enough to react to any situation....and here I highly prefer the choice of standard troops (Saurus warriors)
Cheers
Claus
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Claus
Awesome response. thank you very much. i will certainly take your comments into consideration as i build my lizzies.
:)
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I wasn't taking the piss.
Only stating my personal experience.
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thoughts on salamanders?
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"Useless" is a very harsh description of the stegadon. I think that lizards can field enough capable units to field the stegadon without loosing too much punch if he doesnt do anything.
Surely there are more effective choices, but those large creatures are too cool not to take. :)
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Thanks for the lucid description of your lizardmen tactics!
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@Azrael
I´m not feeling being pissed....and my explainations and writing were not intended to piss you are anyone else.....had not enough time to give more detailed explainations therefore maybe my writing did not bring the message as it were intended by me.
@Guthwine
Yes you are right...useless is not the right word.....let´s say instead ....not effective enough compared to their standard troops.
If you are finally at the point of my playstile .......you are finally looking for playing armies in different ways.
Maybe you saw my thread about UNDEADS and the allmost "All infantry approach".
Recently I also played another variant of Lizzardmen army set up which were looking like this.
Slann
Skink Hero
Skink Hero
Skink Shaman
Skink Shaman
Saurus Hero + T-Rex
8 Units Saurus warriors
4 Units Skinks
2 Units Kroxigor
3 Units Cold One Rider
2 Units Terradons
No Magic items.
To be honest this list made a lot of fun to play (fun: If I have to carefuly think about my tactic, what to do with this limited Command abitilies ... 2 heroes with possible command value of 9 if divine guidance works, 2 skinks shamans with possible command value of 7 if divine guidance works and a Saurus hero with command 6 value.)
It really were great fun for me to play this list in an empire campaign......
As I mentioned before....there are different ways to play and I have to admit that most favored one (for me) is the one when I myself and my opponents have fun during the game (no matter if you win or you lose).
This is probably also one lesson you will learn.....not to take anymore the most opimized army set up .....instead using a list with style and some flair.
I did once an allmost All Infantry Army list for undeady (2500 pts) but you can not play them with only 5 heroes (as the army lists don´t allow you more at the moment).....I had 4 Chariots, 3 Cavalry, 2 bone Giants, 1 Sphinx,2 Skull Chukkas and the rest Bowmen and Spearmen....meaning to have a Breakpoint of 18
The problem here is that you can not command this mass succesfull enough and you don´t have initiative.
Cheers
Claus
P.S:
I play lot´s of different armies (Empire, Chaos,Daemons, Undead, Lizzardmen, Araby, O&G, High Elf) as I have them and to be honest ....the most problem I have with being succesfull are the O&G as they really request completely different playstile then all other armies. But nevertheless from time to time I field them on the battlefield as it looks great having a lot of foot troops on the battlefield.