Specialist Arms Forum
Necromunda => [Necro] Rules Questions => Topic started by: Nazroth on July 08, 2010, 01:00:17 AM
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Hi to all. We play a lot of Necromunda in Poland, but as we played for years, and infected more players with this game the questions started to appear. More players = more possibilities of disagree, more points of view... so i decided to take those questions to you. Please hake a look:
Skavvies:
Followers set deployed at the same time as their Boss, and are considered part of setting him up rather than setting up separate fighters. This means that they will turn up to battle or not depending on whether the Boss is fighting. This also means that they do not count towards any scenario limits on gang numbers present.
Question number one: Does that mean, infiltration special rule allows skavvie player to set up his leader and followers using the infiltration special rules? The same question is about using vents, or tunnels (don't ask me how, just assuming skavvies can use them).
Followers are completely ignored for the purposes of Bottle tests, are never counted as closest model when determining the ability to escape pinning, and do not count for achieving any scenario special victory conditions whether good (capturing or destroying objects) or bad (losing territory in Gang Fight).
Question number two: Does it means that for example Zombies can set up with their leader as the defender in rescue scenario and move freely, not like the rest of sentries? In my opinion they still have to follow the rules for sentry becouse they don't even know someone's comming so they just stare into darkness and moan, but not all rules problems have rationally answers:)
Armoury:
All of the heavy weapons described below are weighty, cumbersome affairs which take quite a bit of physical strength and energy to carry and use. Spare parts, ammunition and a basic tool kit all add
to the weight a heavy must bear. Because of this, any fighter carrying a heavy weapon may not move
and shoot during the same turn. If you choose to move you may not shoot, although you can go onto
overwatch and shoot in the enemy’s turn if you wish. As this rule applies to all heavy weapons it is not
included in the special rules for individual weapons.
Question number three: Grenade Lanucher is a special weapon, not a heavy weapon. In comparison to his use as a stationary, almost-like-heavy weapon does this rule applies to Grenade Launcher?
Overwatch:
...During the
enemy’s turn the model may shoot at any target as it
presents itself at any time. For example, the model
could shoot before the target moves, after it has
completed its move, or actually while the target is
moving. Overwatch is obviously very useful for
shooting at enemy models as they dash from cover to
cover or as they peek out of hiding to shoot.
Question number four/five: Can we go into overwatch if the model actually got enemy models in line of sight? Rules doesnt mention we cant, but If so, does that mean that we can fire at any moment, at any model our opponent want to move? Event if it's not the closest target?
For now those are my questions, but soon there should be more.
Regards.
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As an Answer Moderator, I'll reply to those questions:
1. Infiltrate:
A model with this skill is always placed on the
battlefield after the opposing gang and can be placed
anywhere on the table as long as it is out of sight of
the opposing gang.
"A model" means "One model", so only one model can deploy in such a manner. The followers are deployed at the same time as their Boss, but it doesn't mean they can be deployed next to him, as they don't have - and won't get - this skill.
You can, however, put up to 3 of them in tunnels or vents, since the only condition is to have such territory.
2. They are deployed at the same time as the Boss, but per the rules of the scenario they must act as sentries.
Per their own rules they do not count to the limit of D6 sentries.
3. First and foremost, the grenade laucher is not a heavy wepon, so no.
And this rule is very poorly written, so I wouldn't count on it being valid.
4. FAQ:
Q: What shooting skills can I use when I am on Overwatch?
A: Since Overwatch is a special shooting rule and the wording of the shooting skills on page 91 of the ORB
only Marksman and Crackshot can be used when you are on Overwatch because the others state ‘shooting’
phase. Keep in mind though that you still must target the closest threat and use all other shooting rules.
Also:
You can go into Overwatch in any situation (unless you're broken, down or pinned), but you must declare it on the start of the turn.
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Thank You for reply. Here is another question:
Question five: Panicked
Run to Cover
...The fighter makes a dash of up to 2D6"
away from his enemy and towards cover. Roll the dice
and determine how far the model runs.
If he can reach a position of cover within this distance
where he cannot be seen then he stops there.
If he is unable to reach cover where he cannot be
seen the fighter runs the full distance rolled. In
subsequent movement phases he continues to move
2D6" away from the enemy until he reaches such a
position. If he can get out of sight by staying where
he is and hiding then he will do so (see the
Movement section).
If a panicked model is positioned on the first floor and the only way to get out of sight is jumping down - is he forced to jump? Who decides? Rules, or the owner?
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Question six:
Grenades / Evade skill:
4 Evade
The model ducks and weaves as he moves making
him very hard to hit. Any enemy shooting from short
range suffers a -2 to hit penalty, while any enemy
shooting at long range suffers a -1 penalty. This
penalty only applies if the fighter is in the open and
not if he is behind cover.
Becouse Grenades do not have short, nor long range statistic does evade skill grants cover, when 'shooting' (throwing) a grenade? If so which one it'll be?
Question seven:
4 Leap
The model may leap D6 inches during the movement
phase in addition to his normal movement. He may
move and leap, run and leap or charge and leap, but
he can only leap once during the turn.
...
Can model fire weapons after leaping?
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Question five: Panicked
Run to Cover
...The fighter makes a dash of up to 2D6"
away from his enemy and towards cover. Roll the dice
and determine how far the model runs.
If he can reach a position of cover within this distance
where he cannot be seen then he stops there.
If he is unable to reach cover where he cannot be
seen the fighter runs the full distance rolled. In
subsequent movement phases he continues to move
2D6" away from the enemy until he reaches such a
position. If he can get out of sight by staying where
he is and hiding then he will do so (see the
Movement section).
If a panicked model is positioned on the first floor and the only way to get out of sight is jumping down - is he forced to jump? Who decides? Rules, or the owner?
Couldn't find this in the FAQ, so this is by no means certain, but I'd say the rules dictate that you must move directly away from the cause of panic and you keep fleeing until you can safely get out of sight. I'd say its rare you'd be forced to jump down but if you had no cover to run to without getting closer to the source of your panic, you'd have no choice really.
Question six:
Grenades / Evade skill:
4 Evade
The model ducks and weaves as he moves making
him very hard to hit. Any enemy shooting from short
range suffers a -2 to hit penalty, while any enemy
shooting at long range suffers a -1 penalty. This
penalty only applies if the fighter is in the open and
not if he is behind cover.
Becouse Grenades do not have short, nor long range statistic does evade skill grants cover, when 'shooting' (throwing) a grenade? If so which one it'll be?
Again, another one I couldn't find in the FAQ, but I'd say that either the evade skill doesn't apply at all or it'd be short range at most. Personally I favour the first option, as the Grenade doesn't have a short or long range, it seems fairly self-evident. Plus evading wouldn't count for much against a grenade, because technically it isn't hitting the character trying to duck and weave, but to land in his proximity of the fighter, so weaving in and out doesn't really come into it.
It does say in the ORB that a grenade is treat like any other shooting attack, but without the FAQ to answer it the evade modifiers just wouldn't apply as they can't in the case of thrown grenades.
Question seven:
4 Leap
The model may leap D6 inches during the movement
phase in addition to his normal movement. He may
move and leap, run and leap or charge and leap, but
he can only leap once during the turn.
...
Can model fire weapons after leaping?
Again, another one not covered by the FAQ, but it says leap is in addition to normal movement, and there is certainly no indication that it affects the turn in any other way than described. I'd say you could shoot, but I'm not completely sure. The Jumping rules in the advanced section on page 27 are similar and allow you to charge and such. I'd say unless another aspect intervenes (such as falling damage), you should be able to shoot after jumping, so long as you didn't run or charge.
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Question Eight: Skavvy vs Spyrers
Scavvy rules - cannibals
...Scavvy player may decide to put one or more gang members, or prisoners in to the pot instead...
Spyrers rules - capture
A Spyrer who is captured is automatically killed. Spyrer
weapons and equipment cannot be used by non-Spyrers,
and cannot be sold to Guilders for extra credits.
May Skavvy player decide to EAT a spyrer on a serious injury result of 'captured'? Rules are against it becouse spyrer never get's a chance to actually BE a prisoner, but it would be reasonable if they could eat him. Meat is meat:)
Question nine: Weapon Reload, Inventor, Sale
We encountered a strange situation: Weapon Reload was invented, and a player wont to sell it.
Gangs can automatically sell equipment for half its
listed price. In the case of rare weapons which have
a variable price the gang receives half of the fixed
cost component only (delicate machinery taking a
particular hammering in combat). For example, a
Red-dot laser sight costs 40+3D6 credits so it can
be sold for 20 credits.
Weapon Reload do not have listed price, and our seller figured out to choose lascannon weapon reload when he invented it.
And now - can he sell invented weapon reload for 200 credits, or we take the rules as ROW (read as written) and W.R. is worfless when u choose to sell it?
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Scavvy vs Spyrer:
A Spyrer who is captured is automatically killed
So, a Spyrer actually IS captured and can be put into the pot.
Weaponn Reload:
What book do you have? Mine clearly states that weapon reload costs half weapon's base cost. As such it can be sold for a quarter of weapon's base cost (a half of a half is a quarter). So, in your case it can be sold for 100 creds.
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Thanks for reply. I've assumed that 'half the price of a weapon' isnt 'fixed' price... But we'll do it Your way. Thx again.
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Thanks for reply. I've assumed that 'half the price of a weapon' isnt 'fixed' price... But we'll do it Your way. Thx again.
Well it is fixed, depends on the weapon, doesn't it. The ammo of a Lascannon is going to be more valuable than that of a Stub Gun, but no merchant is going to make you pay full price for it, even if they make sure that you will.
I should note that RAW really doesn't have a place In Necromunda. Its a load of rubbish in the first place, but most of the rules issues can be solved with a bit of common sense, logic, or a small house rule fix. Seeking out the literal interpretations doesn't always help.
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I agree, but unfortunately when a group of advanced players start to play something like necromunda there would always be some problems. Every one of us would like the rules to work for him, so we decided to accept everything that hereby moderators have to say and take it as 100% true, and only TRU solution.
And it works really good. We can concentrate on playing and having good time, when all of our disagrees are hammered here.
And another question: Can we use infiltrate skill in EVERY scenario, regardless of the side (atc, def)? For example rescue mission: deffender set his fighter using infiltration, so that a ganger can see enemy models and auto spot them, if they move... ?
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According to RAW, it's legal, assuming that defender follows the set-up rules in Infiltrate skill description.
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Another Question: In rescue scenario attackers are auto spotted when moving into enemy line of sight. How about 'spotting distance'? Defenders auto spot enemy models moving into line of sight and front arc, or line of sight, front arc and spotting distance previously rolled?
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You do not spot automatically enemy raiders. And they must be in range of your spotting distance, within your front arc and line of sight.
Spotting. Roll 2D6 at the end of the defender’s turn. Sentries can try to spot any raiders that are within the distance rolled so long as they could normally be seen – ie they are within his arc of vision.
Raiders in the open will be spotted on the D6 roll of 2 or more.
Raiders in partial cover will be spotted on the D6 roll of 4 or more.
Raiders in cover or hiding will be spotted on the D6 roll of a 6.
Raiders are also spotted if they move within sight of a sentry during their own turn. The sentry’s spotting range is the same as in his turn and the same dice rolls are required.
Remember, sentries can only see within their normal arc of vision as described above.
Note that you can spot hidden enemy, but he must be within spotting distance and in front arc.
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Ok. Thx.
How about this one:
Deadoralive scenarios could be little tricky.
Loot and Pillage:
'the defending player is fighting to defend his friends and home territory so he doesn't HAVE TO make bottle tests and can't BOTTLE OUT volountairily.'
The Hit:
'The defending player is very much fighting for his life so he WILL NOT BOTTLE OUT VOLOUNTAIRILY OR OTHERWISE.
BOTTLE TEST - test taken to decide if the gang stays on the tabble.
BOTTLE OUT - failed test, resulting in fleeing.
Volountarily bottle out - Decission to auto fail bottle test.
How to interprete this? Is there possibility that deffender actually CAN take a BOTTLE TEST, and if it is failed by a failed roll the gang would flee?
Overwatch
During the
enemy’s turn the model may shoot at any target as it
presents itself at any time. For example, the model
could shoot before the target moves, after it has
completed its move, or actually while the target is
moving. Overwatch is obviously very useful for
shooting at enemy models as they dash from cover to
cover or as they peek out of hiding to shoot.
When actually a ganger on overwatch can take chis chance and shoot? 'as it presents itself' so can a ganger shoot at the start of the enemys turn, before, or after an enemy declares a shoot? Or for example at the beggining of my turn, when my wyrds wall of flame dissipates - could my opponent use his overwatch to shoot at appearing targets?
Overwatch 2
Can you pivot a ganger and go into owerwatch?
Inside Information.
An insider informant offers to sell
you vital information for 10 credits. If you pay the man his
credits the next time you play a game you may choose the
scenario instead of rolling on the Scenario table.
Can you choose the scenario even if that NOT YOU should roll for the scenario tabble? (becouse you have the lower rating) ?
Outlaw traiding chart
The following chart is used to determine what rare trade items are offered for sale to the gang leader. D3 items
are offered automatically and a further +1 for each ganger sent to search them out. The prices of rare items are
given on the main trade charts.
Can a Leader of an outlawed gang go forage? Does the market still offeres him D3 items? It looks like auto offering for me.
Auto Repairer
If a gang has an auto-repairer it can be used in
between fights to check out the gang’s weapons. The
gang must include a heavy to do this and you must
assign a fit ganger to help him. The ganger cannot
collect income from territories or search for rare
trade goods if he is helping the heavy.
Auto repairer states that it requires a ganger to be used, but does it requires a heavy too? Can an outlawed heavy forage and still participate in auto reparing?
Sorry for so many questions but we have couple of dumb-heads in our gaming group (including me) and it have to be straght as an arrow for us not to kill each other:)
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And:
Infiltration
According to Answer Mod FAQ What scenarios allow you to infiltrate hidden?
Infiltration 2
Can you use infiltration skill in every scenario? If no - please write here names of infiltrate-forbidden scenarios?
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Loot and Pillage:
'the defending player is fighting to defend his friends and home territory so he doesn't HAVE TO make bottle tests and can't BOTTLE OUT volountairily.'
The Hit:
'The defending player is very much fighting for his life so he WILL NOT BOTTLE OUT VOLOUNTAIRILY OR OTHERWISE.
How to interprete this? Is there possibility that deffender actually CAN take a BOTTLE TEST, and if it is failed by a failed roll the gang would flee?
"Doesn't have to" doesn't mean "isn't allowed" and so in "Loot and Pillage" scenario the defender can take a Bottle Test, but he's bound by its result and cannot bottle out voluntarily.
"The Hit" scenario doesn't allow Bottle Tests for defender. And it doesn't allow bottling out voluntarily either.
During the
enemy’s turn the model may shoot at any target as it presents itself at any time. For example, the model could shoot before the target moves, after it has completed its move, or actually while the target is moving. Overwatch is obviously very useful for shooting at enemy models as they dash from cover to cover or as they peek out of hiding to shoot.
When actually a ganger on overwatch can take chis chance and shoot? 'as it presents itself' so can a ganger shoot at the start of the enemys turn, before, or after an enemy declares a shoot? Or for example at the beggining of my turn, when my wyrds wall of flame dissipates - could my opponent use his overwatch to shoot at appearing targets?
Shooting from Overwatch is allowed in all those situations. Note that shooting from Overwatch at hidden models that want to shoot is described in FAQ.
Overwatch 2
Can you pivot a ganger and go into owerwatch?
FAQ:
Q: Can my fighter spin to any facing and still go into overwatch or do I have to spend a turn spinning first?
A: Although the ORB states that a fighter may do nothing in the turn that they go into overwatch, spinning is not defined as an action. So, you may 'spin' your fighter at the start of his turn to face any direction he wants without being classed as moving prior to going into overwatch.
Inside Information.
An insider informant offers to sell
you vital information for 10 credits. If you pay the man his credits the next time you play a game you may choose the scenario instead of rolling on the Scenario table.
Can you choose the scenario even if that NOT YOU should roll for the scenario tabble? (becouse you have the lower rating) ?
You choose the scenario INSTEAD OF rolling, so you have to be allowed to roll on the table. If you don't roll, you don't choose.
The following chart is used to determine what rare trade items are offered for sale to the gang leader. D3 items are offered automatically and a further +1 for each ganger sent to search them out. The prices of rare items are given on the main trade charts.
Can a Leader of an outlawed gang go forage? Does the market still offeres him D3 items? It looks like auto offering for me.
From the rules of foraging in "Dead and Alive!" article
Juves, gangers, heavies and even leaders can all forage, though if they forage they can't perform any special tasks, such as visiting the Outlaw trading post or working the gang's territory.
So the answer for both questions is: No.
If a gang has an auto-repairer it can be used in between fights to check out the gang’s weapons. The gang must include a heavy to do this and you must assign a fit ganger to help him. The ganger cannot collect income from territories or search for rare trade goods if he is helping the heavy.
Auto repairer states that it requires a ganger to be used, but does it requires a heavy too? Can an outlawed heavy forage and still participate in auto reparing?
In accordance with the quote above, a heavy is doing a special task and therefore can't forage if he's operating an auto-repairer. The ganger that helps him can't forage either.
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THX dude - a lot of writing:) I dont know how'd we missed FAQ answers for some of those questions.
How about two infiltration questions?
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I know that's a lot of writing - so much that I've made a mistake. It should read:
The following chart is used to determine what rare trade items are offered for sale to the gang leader. D3 items are offered automatically and a further +1 for each ganger sent to search them out. The prices of rare items are given on the main trade charts.
Can a Leader of an outlawed gang go forage? Does the market still offeres him D3 items? It looks like auto offering for me.
From the rules of foraging in "Dead and Alive!" article
Juves, gangers, heavies and even leaders can all forage, though if they forage they can't perform any special tasks, such as visiting the Outlaw trading post or working the gang's territory.
So a leader can forage, but he can't be offered d3 items.
Do you want information about infiltrating in the scenarios from LRB and "Dead and Alive!" article?
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Yes please.
And two more questions:
Which Gangs start their game as outlawed? Is redemption outlawed from the start?
In Answer Mod FAQ - 2-26-09 there are two questions about charging enemy, that is not in our LoS. There are two different answers. One that you can do that, and another that it is impossible. which one is true?
Can you charge an enemy, that you cannot see?
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CAPTURED/RESCUE MISSION: If captured fighter was freed in rescue scenario, but didn't make it to attackers edge before the bottling out of his gang - what happens? Is he recaptured, or does he count as freed and rejoins his gang?
I wouldn't even borther You with this question, but one of our group (the captor) is stubborn about it. For me it is obvious that the victim IF was freed rejoins it's gang. If he fights and moves as normal why shouldn't he flee like the rest? And if my adversary is right then there is possibility to actually capture the captured. For example you free the captive, then he goes DOWN, then his team bottles out, then he rolls 4+ and dies, and then the so called 'captured' guy is captured again on a serious injury roll... i think that this ain't gonna happen. So im certain that once free, the captive bottles out with the rest of the gang - even more - he propably show's some obscenic gestures before departure:)
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Which Gangs start their game as outlawed? Is redemption outlawed from the start?
This one I can answer. Not sure on the others.
The following Gangs are always outlaws:
The Redemption
Scavvies
Pit Slaves
Ratskin Renegades
(This isn't including all the other various gang rules dotted about that aren't as official)
All the 'Outlander Gangs" (the ones above and the Pit Slaves) are technically outlaws in their own way. They certainly aren't house gangs. The rules aren't written brilliantly, but the indication is still there. In the newer rules the key is to see the bit about 'Bounty'. That makes them outlaws. They all have other rules and means that override the usual outlaw rules but they are, still, essentially outlaws if they have a bounty.
The difference between your standard outlaws and outlanders is that they always are outlaws. They can't 'buy back' their 'good citizen' status from the guilders. The guilders will hunt them mercilessly and laugh disgustingly at any feeble attempt to bribe them.
Those gangs will (unless specified otherwise) use the Outlaw Trade Chart, and follow the other rules where appropriate. They will also have only one territory, which operates as a base, use the upkeep costs and starvation and so on.
I'm not sure where Spyrers are on this scale, I've never really known, or checked. They are an Outlander gang, but as usual, they have their own exceptions.
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THX.
So three questions remain unanswered:
INFILTRATION: In which scenarios is it legal to infiltrate for attacker? Similarly in ehich scenario defender can infiltrate?
CAPTURED/RESCUE MISSION: If captured fighter was freed in rescue scenario, but didn't make it to attackers edge before the bottling out of his gang - what happens? Is he recaptured, or does he count as freed and rejoins his gang?
CHARGING MODELS OUT OF LOS: In Answer Mod FAQ - 2-26-09 there are two questions about charging enemy, that is not in our LoS. There are two different answers. One that you can do that, and another that it is impossible. which one is true?
Can you charge an enemy, that you cannot see?
Please answer if U're able.
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So three questions remain unanswered:
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CAPTURED/RESCUE MISSION: If captured fighter was freed in rescue scenario, but didn't make it to attackers edge before the bottling out of his gang - what happens? Is he recaptured, or does he count as freed and rejoins his gang?
I can chop it down to two. From the FAQ:
Q: In a rescue mission, is the captive’s equipment returned?
A: According to the Rescue Mission rules in the ORB (page 118) and the Captured! Serious Injury Result in the ORB (page 84) a successfully rescued captive will also retain his equipment. In addition, if a captured fighter is released during the Rescue Scenario then he is free to go and has his equipment, but is not allowed to use it. This is an oversight in the wording of the Rescue Scenario, but it is also just a mechanic of the game and may not seem logical.
Q: If my captured fighter is released during a Rescue Scenario and then goes out-of-action, what happens to him?
A: Per the Rescue Scenario rules in the ORB (page 118) if you free the captive and he is taken out-of-action he is no longer the captive. He will be treated as a normal fighter that had gone out-of-action.
These two questions kind of indirectly answer what I suspected. The emphasis is on him being cut free, and from that point he takes his chances. So yes, if he was cut free, he doesn't have to leave the board to avoid capture. Getting him off the board just ends the game immediately, potentially reducing damage to the attacking party. If he goes down, after all, he could end up dead or captured again. So long as he is cut loose before your gang bottled, he is essentially freed.
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RATSKIN MAP: Can you use ratskin map even if you're not the one rolling on the scenario tabble? If 'yes' what happens when both players want to use ratskin maps? Who goes first?
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The three open ones are toughies and I can't find exact examples in the rules or FAQ, so in accordance with our answer mod procedure, the answer mods will discuss these and get back to you.
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So how is it going? Some interesting points of view?
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I think M.T. provided the fullest answer of our off-the-scenes discussion, hope he doesn't mind me quoting him:
Q: Can you charge a model that is hidden or out of line of sight? [2005]
A: You can only charge a fighter that you can see or have detected (aka inside your initiative range). This can get tricky, but remember that you declare and move charging models at the very start of the movement phase. In addition, per the charging rules on ORB page 11 you have to declare to your opponent who is charging and who the target of the charge is. If your fighter cannot see the intended target then he would not know to charge it. Keep in mind that as players we know there is a fighter there we want to charge but the reality of the fighter is that he has no LOS to the threat.
This ruling is from 2005 and it says that you must see your opponent.
Q: I know that the 2005 NRC findings addressed this issue, but can I charge a fighter that is hidden or out of my LOS?
A: After further review, here is the revised findings…
Hidden Fighter – You may not charge a fighter that is hidden. By definition a hidden fighter is not a valid charge target. If he is inside your initiative range then he is not hidden and you can charge him. However, if you have a declared charge against another fighter and your movement makes a hidden fighter ‘detected’ or rather, makes him loose his hidden status then he is still not a valid charge target for that charger, but he may be the target of the next charger since his is no longer hidden. Remember that charge movement is declared and happens on a one at a time basis before compulsory and regular movement per the rule on pages 10 and 11 of the ORB.
Not hidden, but no LOS – As for fighters that are not hidden, but are not in your LOS then you can charge them. Necromunda is a changing battlefield where your knowledge as a player and that of the fighters themselves in not logically associated. The target needs to use the game mechanic of ‘Hiding’ instead of just getting out of LOS to avoid charging.
This ruling was made after the first one, and it clearly says that you can charge an opponent that you can't see, provided he's not hidden.
Since this was a "further review", it replaces the first one. From now on, an opponent that's not hidden, but not in LOS, can be charged.
As for ratskin map, I'd say that the player with the lowest rating rolls on the table, then the player with the map modifies the result. If both players have a map, they both can use it, but they must roll a dice - who scores higher, modifies the result first.
I'm in accord with all M.T. says, so I don't need to add anything I don't think. The LOS and charging is an issue, but you can imagine charging into an area, fully expecting to fight something, but not knowing for sure. Combat wouldn't not ensue just because you didn't see them before you went barging in. If they were hiding, that would be different. Although looking for stuff that "makes sense" in GW games, but it's good to help out.
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Thank you, so the infiltration remains.
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Oh and we have another set of questions. This time PIT SLAVES CLAW WEAPOND and HURL OPPONENT rules:
1) Can a pit slave armed with a CLAW special hth weapon hurl opponent, that goes out of action (6) as a result of this round of combat?
2) Does Pit Slave armed with a CLAW special hth weapon automatically kill opponent that goes down and is thrown with Hurl special rule?
3) If answer for above is YES, what happens in multiple combat? For example: pit slave fights two gangers. He wins round of combat against one of them, inflict 'go down' and throw him away. Then he fights another ganger and kills him. Is the 'hurled' victim dead? In normal combat both would be dead, becouse at the end of combat they would be at mercy of their opponent, but hurl separates gangers before that...
It would be nice if you write us down a PROCEDURE for combat and multiple combat with use of a CLAW special weapon and with use of HURL OPPONENT special rule. Actually the 'additional' hits mentioned in CLAW special rules are little tricky.
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Okay, I'll have a crack at these.
1) Can a pit slave armed with a CLAW special hth weapon hurl opponent, that goes out of action (6) as a result of this round of combat?
As the rules in the rulebook state under injuries on page 17 of the ORB, models that are taken out of action are removed from play immediately. The wording of the Claw Weapon is not ideal, but an additional throw after taking a model out of action would rarely have any additional impact. If you have areas that would inflict instant death, it may be arguable, but otherwise there would be no point throwing the model.
So what about if the model is just taken down, but would, because of combat rules, be taken immediately out of action?
It does create the conflicting issue of events. Does the status of "Down" move to "Out of Action" before the model would be thrown? It does say that the attack is 'in addition' to hitting the opponent, so by that logic it could be arguable that the model would be thrown. However this would mean that the model would be ejected out of combat, which would mean a separate injury roll that wouldn't be affected by regular combat (it would be from falling damage) and would not automatically take the gang member out of action. So if it does happen regardless of the result, then the model would be taken down, thrown and then would potentially suffer another damage roll, but would not go out of action automatically except if the model falls a distance of 12" or greater.
2) Does Pit Slave armed with a CLAW special hth weapon automatically kill opponent that goes down and is thrown with Hurl special rule?
An opponent taken down in combat would usually automatically go out of action (see 1); the only exception is multiple combat (see 3). The only Pit Slave weapon capable of killing an opponent outright in a close combat is the Shears.
The Claw is of most use when an opponent isn't injured but is defeated in combat. In this case the model could be thrown, and then chucked off a ledge and so on. But the rules do not account for instant death even when falling great distances.
3) If answer for above is YES, what happens in multiple combat? For example: pit slave fights two gangers. He wins round of combat against one of them, inflict 'go down' and throw him away. Then he fights another ganger and kills him. Is the 'hurled' victim dead? In normal combat both would be dead, becouse at the end of combat they would be at mercy of their opponent, but hurl separates gangers before that...
It would be nice if you write us down a PROCEDURE for combat and multiple combat with use of a CLAW special weapon and with use of HURL OPPONENT special rule. Actually the 'additional' hits mentioned in CLAW special rules are little tricky.
As I see it, a multiple combat would make no difference to the way the Claw is used. The rules in the ORB state that parts of a multiple combat are fought as if in one-on-one fighting. Essentially if you fought two gangers in combat with a pit slave with a claw, you would fight the first opponent, if you won, you could hurl the opponent. As multiple combats prevent models being taken down and out if there is at least one model from their side still standing, this is a lot easier to justify than a single combat where a model is taken down and out.
Note however, that regardless of the opponent being ejected, the fresh enemy would still get their additional attack dice and +1 bonus to combat resolution. That gang member would then however be taken down and out of action if you somehow managed to win the combat and wound them successfully.
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So:
Throwing dead gangers is more importatn than you think:) Pit slave player could decide to hurl ooa opponent into another opposing ganger so that another model could take some damage. I need stright answer: could he throw OOA model? (Y/N)
Now as i understand:
A model figting one on one with a pit slave armed with a Claw WOULD NOT be ooa on a 'go down' result, when he'll be thrown. OK.
A model fighting in multiple combat with a pit slave goes down, then another fighter is thrown away - first model GOES ooa right?
So how 'hurling' works exackly? If its in addition to hitting when pit slave player have to decide about hurling? When making his hits, after rollig to hit, after wounding? And how it works? He decide that he throws away unfortunate opponent, then deciding which direction, and then rolling how far? Or does he deciding about dirrection after rolling for distance? We usually play Warhammer 40.000 and we all are freaks about rullings, spelling etc. So Necromunda gives us all a big, wet kick into ass. You can make ten interrpretacions of every unusual rule:)
(When i wrote 'kill' i mean out of action.)
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Hi
So have you discussed remining questions?
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Hi
So have you discussed remining questions?
It's still in the Process Nazroth, we'll get back to you asap, don't worry
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Right okay, sorry for the wait but this needs resolving.
With regards to hurl opponent, you should declare your intention to use this skill before resolving the effects of the combat. The reason being is that there are obvious perks and disadvantages to using hurl opponent, and it is not something you will always want to do. Therefore as a skill you can use you have to declare its use before rolling - it is the only fair way to do it!
Resolve the combat as you would any other, and if the model with the hurl opponent skill wins the combat, they will hurl the opponent, regardless of effects. Because the model is being ejected from the combat as part of the "resolving attacks" part of the combat, the victim will be hurled regardless of other wound results (even down or out of action), and if not taken out of action with the wounds, will suffer collateral damage from throws and falling damage from the throw.
As the model is thrown, the model cannot be taken out of action on a down result, although the downed result would still stand, providing the injury status does not change after resolving throw damage.
If as part of a multiple combat, the result is the same, and you would declare before resolving that part of the combat (so you would say "I intend to use Hurl Opponent on enemy A", but you may choose not to for enemy B or vice versa). If by massive good fortune you threw out one or more enemies out of combat and the other remaining enemies were taken down as part of the combat, yes, they would go out of action (remember though that ejected or downed enemies still add cumulative bonuses to fighters with the outnumber bonus in combat!).
As to resolving the throw, the ability is a muscle skill, and the ORB states as follows:
If you win a round of combat, instead of hitting your opponent you can throw him D6" in the direction of your choice. The thrown model takes a single hit equal to half the distance rolled. If it hits a solid object (such as a wall) before it reaches the full distance thrown it will stop there. If it hits another model, then both models take a hit equal to half the distance rolled. - ORB pg 90.
And this is the one from the Pit Slaves rules:
Pit Slave armed with a claw may pick up and hurl his opponent if he wins a round of hand-to-hand combat. This hurl is in addition to hitting his opponent. A hurled opponent is thrown D6†in a direction chosen by the Pit Slave player and suffers a single hit at the strength equal to half the distance hurled (round up). If the hurled opponent strikes a wall or other obstacle he will stop there. If the hurled opponent hits another fighter then both fighters take a single hit with a strength equal to half the distance hurled. If the hurled opponent is pitched off a building use the Advanced Rules for Falling found on page 27 of the Necromunda LRB. Pit Slaves V2 p.7
You'll note the difference in rulings that the issue does not happen with a regular hurl opponent skill, where the throw is done instead of hitting your opponent. Regardless, the rules for throwing are about the same. You choose a direction, and the model is thrown D6" in that direction. Any obstacles in the way (including other fighters) will be automatically hit and each take a single hit equal to half the distance hurled.
You would determine the direction before resolving the distance (as this is the fairest way to do it, and a logical order), and bear in mind the constraints of LOS or blocking - you wouldn't be able to throw a model the direction covered by another enemy in combat - this would greatly limit your vision for many reasons.
There are benefits to either of the hurl opponent rules, but the only way to fully solve this is if Arbitrator General posts up as to whether the difference in rules was intentional or not, but he's a very busy guy.
We usually play Warhammer 40.000 and we all are freaks about rullings, spelling etc. So Necromunda gives us all a big, wet kick into ass. You can make ten interrpretacions of every unusual rule:)
Funny, I've found 40k very poor for rulings and consistent rules concepts. At least Necromunda has a system that solves most of its own problems.
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Thx for the reply. Unfortunately were being pushed by studies (most of us), and are unable to play regulary. Hope it'll change. Thx again.