Today I fought a battle with my Skaven against Dark Elves.Is there ANYTHING in the WLC rules that say they can not shoot >> if not, then follow normal procedure
There was one difficult situation for us:
A unit of DE spearmen charged a unit of rat swarms (flank) which stood in a brigade together with a warplightning cannon. The cannon made "stand and shoot" and did make casualties in the DE spearmen.
So now my question:
Can the DE spearmen unit get confused as the rules of taking casualties from a warp lightning cannon say?
If they can get confused, does the DE spearmen unit get the +1 bonus for charge in the open?IF the unit got confused then follow the normal rules for Confused Units, -1 att bonus in that case negated +1 att bonus from charging in open
The rules of the warplightning cannon says that every unit, touching the unit which was shot at, have to rool a d6 for confusion. So when I choose "stand and shoot", do my ratties have to make this roll to (bec. in the end the DE spearmen touched my units as a result of the charge)?Shooting occurs at "any point during the charge", which is not pers over open sights at point blank range 8-)
Hope, I can find good answeres here (although I think we played it right in the end).
Greetings from Austria
Peter
Shooting occurs at "any point during the charge", which is not pers over open sights at point blank range 8-)
Personaly I would "prefer" to shoot at he start of their move (if I would have the distance), while they might still be in contact with more DE units 8)
Shooting occurs at "any point during the charge", which is not pers over open sights at point blank range 8-)
Personaly I would "prefer" to shoot at he start of their move (if I would have the distance), while they might still be in contact with more DE units 8)
Shooting is worked out, when the charging units finishes its move, so you can only shoot when they come into base contact and not at the start of their move, cant you!?
Actualy it is worked out when the first STAND is moved into position (because THAT is when you know it IS a charge move 8) ), but nowhere it is defined to be at the moment of contact.
shooting occurs at "any point during the charge", which is not pers over open sights at point blank range 8-)
You confuse rule vs procedure
A unit of [shooters] is joined by a character on a dragon. The unit is charged from LOS by a unit of horseman that allign on one of the outside stands, effectivly creating frontage against 2 stands.
A second unit of horsemen then charges in and allignes adjacent to the first attackers.
How many Stand&Shoot attacks are fired on the attackers in total ?
¿should the crossbowmen have another missle reaction (1 dice) to shoot agains the chaos knights?
A unit of [shooters] is joined by a character on a dragon. The unit is charged from LOS by a unit of horseman that allign on one of the outside stands, effectivly creating frontage against 2 stands.
A second unit of horsemen then charges in and allignes adjacent to the first attackers.
How many Stand&Shoot attacks are fired on the attackers in total ?
There is no "rule" that says you can only shoot at attackers when they are in contact with your stands, it is a practicality of the procedure to roll them at that time, and before moving the next unit, because in those cases where stands ARE taken casualty, this may influence the next unit moving.
Note that sometimes stands get to shoot at attackers that actualy end-up outside LOS, which could be interpreted as "the shooting takes place at any point where the shooting unit can acutaly SEE the attacker.
Stands capable of shooting (including artillery, appropriate monsters and some machines) and which are not already engaged in combat, can shoot at enemy units charging their own unit. Remember, a unit is ‘charged’ so long as it is contacted by a charging stand – it does not matter if the unit was not the original target of the charge. [...]
Shots are worked out as soon as the charging unit has finished its move.
Shooting stands must be able to draw a line of sight to the enemy unit at some point during the charge move whilst it is within their weapon range. This can be at any moment during the charge: either at the start of the move, once it is complete or at any point in between. [...]
Calculate the effect of shots and remove anywhole stand casualties straight away before moving any further units [...]
Shots are always calculated from the position of the chargers at the end of their move[...]
the skaven would also have to test for confusion. It does not matter when the shooting takes place, it is worked out when the attackers have reached their final position (says so in the rules), so the skaven have to test, too.true.
About the example: dragon + unit can shoot all their shots at the attacking unit;
if the attacking unit creates frontage with 2 stands, then 2 other stands can shoot back (depends on what stands are in contact, as the dragon has more attacks). Mind that corner contact does not count as contact in this case!????
the skaven would also have to test for confusion. It does not matter when the shooting takes place, it is worked out when the attackers have reached their final position (says so in the rules), so the skaven have to test, too.The only thing the RuleBOOK says (and that is in particular for Boltthrowers, as the WLC was not around when it was written):
About the example: dragon + unit can shoot all their shots at the attacking unit; if the attacking unit creates frontage with 2 stands, then 2 other stands can shoot back (depends on what stands are in contact, as the dragon has more attacks).
Mind that corner contact does not count as contact in this case!
A unit of [shooters] is joined by a character on a dragon. The unit is charged from LOS by a unit of horseman that allign on one of the outside stands, effectivly creating frontage against 2 stands.
A second unit of horsemen then charges in and allignes adjacent to the first attackers.
How many Stand&Shoot attacks are fired on the attackers in total ?
Quote
A unit of [shooters] is joined by a character on a dragon. The unit is charged from LOS by a unit of horseman that allign on one of the outside stands, effectivly creating frontage against 2 stands.
A second unit of horsemen then charges in and allignes adjacent to the first attackers.
How many Stand&Shoot attacks are fired on the attackers in total ?
The first attackers gets 3 +3 dragon shots and the second charger gets 1 + 3 dragon shots, so I would say all in all 10 shots are fired in s&s.
Shots are worked out as soon as the charging unit has finished its move.Page 7, P28, 4th paragraph
direct copy & paste from the GW rules update: (get it from their website)QuoteShots are worked out as soon as the charging unit has finished its move.Page 7, P28, 4th paragraph
Actualy that is not a rule, but a procedure statement 8).
Actualy that is not a rule, but a procedure statement 8).
makes me curious - what is the basis for above statement?
actually i don't really see reason for discussion as the rules are quite clear in my opinion! :)
@Topic: Gotta agree with mspaetauf. How do we distinguish rule from procedure?
The first attackers gets 3 +3 dragon shots and the second charger gets 1 + 3 dragon shots, so I would say all in all 10 shots are fired in s&s.