Specialist Arms Forum
Specialist Games General Discussion => Modeling & painting => Topic started by: Brother Argos on September 11, 2010, 01:22:03 PM
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After a long time of no modelling / painting (well over a year) I decided to start work on a new fleet for BFG, as the new release from Forgeworld centres around the Badab Wars I decided to focus my efforts on something interesting from that period. As the Badab wars took place near to the Maelstrom in the Ultima Segmentum and centred around a known conflict I found myself researching the Ultima fleets and thinking about Battlefleet Maelstrom.
Few facts seem to be known about the Ultima Segmentum with regard to Battlefleet Gothic, I could only find one unsubstantiated colour reference and if that was correct it invalidated GW's use of green for their own fleet, so I quickly dismissed it. One solid fact was the information about Kar Duniash the segmentum fortress and its use of the Kar Duniash pattern cruisers, which are sold by GW as their Rogue Trader cruiser. In the initial Rogue Trader fleet rules (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat480005a&categoryId=1100007§ion=&aId=4300022) release it says specifically on page 4: -
Kar Duniash Pattern Cruisers
The Rogue Trader model available from games workshop is based upon a Kar Duniash pattern cruiser, meaning the model is rather versatile and can be used to represent any class of Imperial Navy Cruiser. Our painted example has been equipped to represent a Rogue Trader cruiser, but by replacing the weapons with the appropriate combinations of Imperial broadside batteries it's possible to create a Gothic class, Lunar class, Tyrant class or whatever.
Armed with this knowledge I purchased a couple of Kar Duniash cruisers from GW and set about doing some modelling, I wanted to make some Kar Duniash pattern light cruisers as well. The first step was to duplicate the metal cruiser into something softer to work with, so I recast the body of the cruiser into resin and set about making a smaller prow. In addition I filled the back of the various weapon systems to make the back flush and cast them also, this was to make magnetising the weapon systems easier. As I wished to field some Endeavour, Endurance and Defiant pattern light cruisers I then extended and rebuilt the Lance bay and Fighter bays to the same length as the Light cruiser weapon bays.
You can see my work in progress below, the light cruiser half way through construction is at the front, with all the modified weapon bays ready to be reproduced in resin. The prow of the light cruiser has been cut down to make it scale better with the light cruiser body. The resin bridge section at the back has also been cut back as well. Directly in from the finished weapon bays will let me make a Kar Duniash pattern Endeavour class series of ships.
The middle cruiser body was the test for the magnets as you can see and in the end was cut up for parts as I experimented further with the Light Cruiser.
The Metal cruiser at the back was destined to become my colour scheme test.
Work in Progress Modelling shots
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork1.jpg)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork2.jpg)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork3.jpg)
In between waiting for moulds and casting I set about working on a test colour scheme. I wanted to keep the colour palette relatively simple and would be relying on dry brushing (shock, horror, gasp) and washes. I got the basic colour outline laid down quickly using a white undercoat (I wanted the colour vibrancy that a white undercoat brings) and the blue was done with Vallejo Model Color - Medium Blue. Please excuse the poorly taken and over exposed shot from my iphone: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork6.jpg)
Working up from that I used GW - Ice Blue with a heavy dry brush to accent all the small detail and then a heavy wash with GW Wash - Asurmen Blue. This left me slightly darker than the colour I wanted, so I ran a VERY light drybrush of Ice Blue which pulled the colour up to where I wanted and re-emphasised the small detail. Once this was done I went and retouched the white prow and eagle and started work on the "lights", in keeping with the "cool" colour scheme I had chosen white for the lights, small dots at key points helped sustain the illusion of scale that any small model requires. I then followed up with GW - Chainmail on the characteristic globes along the dorsal line of the ship and the tips of weapons and landing bays and finally the engines, which then received a further 2-3 carefully applied GW Wash - Badab Black layers.
Lastly I used GW Dwarf Bronze as the base for my Prow Eagle, then followed the edges with GW - Brunished Gold and went over with GW Wash - Devlan mud in the recesses. To make it "Pop" I then highlighted again with the burnished gold. To emphasise the bridge dome I used the gold to do some of the minor metallic work at that end also.
Here are a couple of pictures of the final outcome: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork8.jpg)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork9.jpg)
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Look awesome. The light cruiser hull I understand need to be built/modeled but looks as if you built the cruiser hull as well
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Awesome work. And you asking for Unseelieed his pictures. ;)
The prows look great.
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Well the weekend turned out to be busy, I got most of the work on the Kar Duniash pattern Light Cruiser master done, then I assembled another cruiser with minor modifications to make it a Battle Cruiser and finally managed to make a Prow with Torpedo holes in it after numerous failures.
The light cruiser is made of a number of different sub-sections all of which need to be moulded and then cast for production.
- Bridge section, reduced the existing cruiser size bridge area and pulled in the sub domes and created pillars underneath them out of plasticard.
- Body, removed and tidied sections of the metal body to fit the new parts better.
- Wings, Shortened and cut down to fit to the smaller light cruiser body.
- Prow, Socket and plug arrangement to allow different prows (torpedo etc) to be fitted.
All of this should allow me to create any of the current light cruiser variants, Endeavour, Endurance, Defiant or Dauntless using magnets if I require.
Here you can see the light cruiser held together by blu-tac and willpower: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork11.jpg)
and next to the new Cruiser for contrast.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork12.jpg)
The light cruiser needs a number of minor changes / additions made, most of it is greenstuff work closing holes and gaps before moulding the parts.
The new Cruiser / Battlecruiser required minor changes, specifically making a turret space on the dorsal line and adding a turret, all that remains is to remove the forward dome on the prow and add a turret there too.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork13.jpg)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork14.jpg)
Finally I spent a LONG time working on torpedo tubes for the prow, its not often I show a whole lot of mistakes but I decided to show all the failed attempts. It took ages using a drill set on a low speed to make the distinctive torpedo tubes visible on imperial prow, but I am pleased with the final version which can be seen at the front of the following picture: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork10.jpg)
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are you going to make the prow and the bridge available to the general public
especially if the fit the standard imperial navy plastic hull?
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are you going to make the prow and the bridge available to the general public
especially if the fit the standard imperial navy plastic hull?
@ Fracas : Isn't that likely to get GW Legal all riled up?
Just grabbed a pic on my iPhone while leaving for work this morning. Almost completed my second cruiser, just got the masts to paint and the dorsal lance turrets to add. I tend to add them last as they get in the way during the rest of the painting/modelling.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork16.jpg)
Better pictures tonight after the masts are completed!
The light cruisers are waiting on the current mould which is sitting in the pressure vessel at the moment. It has the Torpedo prow, modified Dorsal Lances and a couple of other useful items.
Its quite nice to have a project with a limited scope, I invariably over-reach my available time and take on things like building and casting entire armies (Steel Legion) (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193832") instead of choosing things I can actually complete.
Its really good to have some friends keeping me focused, thanks Kurgan & Ragnar!
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you could get into trouble if you would sell them, or advertise
giving them to friends, swapping themfor stuff etc is just a hobby thing 8)
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Hi,
with the recent Zeus Class Light Cruisers (PaulsonGames or something) I think that selling the cruisers is off limits (illegal), yet selling the light cruiser variants (with tweaked weapon modules), escorts and battleship with this Kar Duniash Prow is legal.
Though I can see GW lawyers bugging you a lot. ;)
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Just interested in conversion bits like the prow or the bridge
I would not think GW would have issues with bits
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I am looking forward to getting home tonight, the next mould should be finished, it has the torpedo prow, the domed lances and new masts. With these components I should be able to finish off the battle cruiser and remake the body to mean the prow is changeable as required. I have also worked out a way to magnetise the nova cannon / ram as required on the new prows!
With the final components for the cruisers complete I can move on to finishing off the light cruiser, this includes creating multiple prow again, with and without torpedoes. The cut down wings need reinforcing and a socketing arrangement needs to be worked on at the joint into the main body. I also need to work my way around the model using Green Stuff and close up any holes in the joints and make it "mould" safe (reduce undercuts etc). When all of this is done I can start moulding the light cruisers which will have swappable prow (torpedo or not), swappable weapon bays made for a sword class fitting (long and thin), wings and a tidied body.
The new fittings for the weapons can be seen here. ..
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork17.jpg)
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Last night was a good night my new Prow, Domed Lance Turret and Mast mould worked really well.
Here are the new prows, done with different shades of grey resin. As you can see at the back are the new magnetised Nova Cannon and Power Ram, while in the front we have an original prow and a torpedo prow already fitted to the body of the cruiser.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork18.jpg)
Next up we have the components for the light cruiser almost ready for the moulds. The bridge /dome has been cut down and the two smaller domes moved into the body closer, the underbody section has also been reduced in height to fit better, the wings are cut down (but need building up slightly and a socketing arrangement added) and you can see both the Torpedo Prow (fitted) and the normal Prow, the 2mm dome on top was added using 2mm adhesive gems (you can also see the socket hole at the back of the normal prow). finally there are some fresh out of the mould guns which still need cleaning up!
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork19.jpg)
and assembled
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork11.jpg)
This picture shows the next Cruiser already assembled and waiting to be painted.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork20.jpg)
Here are the masts and turrets straight out of the moulds, still need tidying up (see its not just Forgeworld that gets flash around their models)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork21.jpg)
Finally after this Black & White movie presentation I thought we could do with a little colour, here is the finished Battlecruiser with Domed Dorsal Lance Turrets and masts painted. I am really pleased with the result, the domed turrets were cut down Chaos turrets with 1.59mm ball bearings added, they look sleek (being thinner than any other of the plastic turrets) and the domed top fits with the style of the ship nicely.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork22.jpg)
I just got a deliver this morning of a new resin and silicon rubber from www.tomps.com in preparation for the light cruiser. I have used their silicon rubber before and although it has a short potlife (10 mins) I find it thickens up much quicker than that, so I need to move quickly. Its main advantage is cost, a fairly quick set time
, it handles undercuts well and they do next day delivery!
Tonight will be a green stuff night, finishing off the Light cruiser ready for the weekend.
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Just a quick update this morning, to show the light cruiser and its weapon modules ready for their mould.
In the first mould are all the basic components, the body, the bridge section, the wings, and the belly of the ship.
You can see the sprue and pouring funnel are already in place (this saves rubber while casting, instead of cutting it out later). The mould has also been keyed (the small holes which force alignment).
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork24.jpg)
In the second mould we see all the weapon modules, with attendant turrets for the lance bay, and both the normal and torpedo prow. I had a spare resin funnel and sprue I could use for this one (saves time).
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork23.jpg)
The Silicon Rubber has already been poured and they both sit in the pressure vessel as I type, in 8 hrs time I will be able to remove them, flip it over, tidy up any clay on the model and get ready for casting the second half of the mould.
If all goes well the mould for the light cruiser will be usable tomorrow morning!
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Both moulds were set by around 7pm, so I removed the silicon rubber, cleaned up the light cruiser parts (they almost always have clay on them) and reseated the parts into the rubber.
I then built lego containment around them sprayed them with "wax" barrier spray (to stop the new rubber sticking to the rubber we just poured) and added another 200g of rubber to each mould after mixing it with the fast catalyst (10 min potlife, 6 hrs demould, 8hrs can user to cast).
Here are the resulting moulds ready for the next rubber pour.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork25.jpg)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork26.jpg)
You will note most of the components are at an angle, this is to help the air evacuate out of them ahead of the resin as it rises from the bottom. It reduces the chance of trapped air and therefore ensures better results.
Now I just need to wait till around 8am tomorrow morning when I can get started on cutting the feeds for the resin into the moulds.
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Argos,
out of curiosity, what kind of equipment are you using?
and I asume you will dropcast, not spincast, right ??
Lex
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I can drop cast either resin or metal, but I own a spin caster for metal and a pressure casting rig for resin.
These moulds are rigged up for drop casting (the large funnel gived that away) ... but I can use them in the pressure caster if I wish.
If you wish to see more about mould making .. can I suggest you take a look at my previous logs: - Steel Legion (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193832)
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The light cruiser mould is all finished and here are some pictures showing the results. There was a single trapped air pocket and for the second cast I have hopefully fixed that.
First up a couple of comparison shots against one of the cruisers.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork29.jpg)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork30.jpg)
I wanted to achieve a "similar" feeling between the cruiser and light cruiser and am pleased to say I feel as though I managed it. They certainly feel as though they are from the same "pattern" when just sitting next to each other.
The replaceable weapon modules should now allow me to field an interesting range of light cruiser variants: -
With the addition of a magnetised lance to the prow ... or even in its torpedo variant .. the Dauntless ... or an Endeavour class.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork33.jpg)
With the change to launch bays we can field a defiant class light cruiser (although I would cut the dome and place a weapon battery or two on the prow)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork32.jpg)
and finally the Endurance class light cruiser.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork31.jpg)
So with minor modifications (adjustments to the prow using magnets) I think that's all the variant models of Kar Duniash Light Cruisers I need!
Now I need to cast three of them so I can take them with my while travelling next week and paint them.
Overall I am pleased with the result ... what do you think?
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That we envy.
That's what we think.
;)
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Looks good and almost makes me wonder if I have enough IN ships ;) I am curious about the 3rd lance turret you have on there. doesn't exactly match the typical layout for lance strength.
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Indeed ... but then I went with the lead from the Weapon battery .. which doesn't fit the normal pattern either (having 6 firing ports per battery instead of 4). After considering the weapon battery example for some time I came to the conclusion the weapons on the light cruisers are smaller and require more of them for the same effect. When I checked this I found the weapon battery when you compare to the normal plastic one has visibly smaller guns, so to follow suit I reduced the turret size on the lances to give the same effect.
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I was doing some "redecorating" in the den today (well actualy I was looking for some stuff and moving bits and pieces around) and found some of the original plastic ships lurking in the back of some old style WHFB Ogres. Comparing these with the pictures showing what you did, I must say I am more then impressed with the quality of your work.
Which now raises a question...... if you can manage BFG, would you think is manageable to create Warmaster ?? Mind you, not asking you to do them (yet 8) ), but curious if you consider them do-able
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Well I am on the 08:30 train to Swindon, having spent most of yesterday making light cruisers from the new mould. Sadly I did not remember to cast the mast mould at the same time, so I will need to do that upon my return.
I am going to be living out of hotels for most of this week, so no opportunity to do any casting. However as you can see below I have brought with me the five unpainted models to paint: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork35.jpg)
(Note the sad lack of masts!)
If I complete the painting on these five models I will have successfully finished my first project in 3 years. I should have about 1100pts worth of fleet, with all the weapons magnetised so I can make any light cruiser or cruiser I desire (including the 'missing' light cruisers from Battlefleet Armageddon) in the characteristic style of the Kar Duniash dockyards.
I have brought the selection of paints, brushes, etc. I require for the models with me and there is a GW in Swindon that I can use to get anything I forgot. I have my iPhone with me so you can expect blurry dark pictures of any progress till I get home.
As you can see about I managed to cast three light cruisers last night and could not help myself from setting up a Dauntless class, Defiant class and a showing the magnets at work: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork34.jpg)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork36.jpg)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork37.jpg)
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great work
if i hadn't found be some voss prow i would want several of these
would be great for a rogue trader fleet as well
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Let the first of the blurry hotel pictures roll ...
Rather boringly I painted the thin white undercoat on all of the cruisers last night. Took a couple of hours of mind numbing boredom: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork38.jpg)
As you can see iPads are good for something!
Today I visited Gw in Swindon and got a book I wanted (Enforcer), a stipple brush (looked interesting) and an old white dwarf I missed. I then found an artshop called Ink Spot and blew some more money on a small pallete for tonights painting (at 79p I will throw it away at the end of the week).
With any luck I should complete the initial "Blue" phase tonight!
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:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
simply gorgeous! That's some great work there!
*I do not need another fleet... must finish my current 2... I do not need another fleet... must finish my current 2... I do not need another fleet... must finish my current 2... I do not need another fleet... must finish my current 2... I do not need another fleet... must finish my current 2... I do not need another fleet... must finish my current 2...*
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Well last night was a good night for painting, I completed the three light cruisers and got 2/3rds of the way through each of the cruisers.
If all goes well tonight I should finish the cruisers and be all done, ready to return home on Friday night. It will have taken 12 hrs work for 5 cruisers, which is the best speed of painting I have achieved in years at 2.5 hrs per model.
Anyway here are the blurry, non-macro, iphone, under a 40w bulb, hotel pictures.
Endeavour, Endurance & Defiant class light cruisers
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork39.jpg)
Dauntless Light Cruiser
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork40.jpg)
I am now quite eager to get home and take decent photos!
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Ok .. Ok .. As far as work on the cruisers goes ... I admit I did none last night. I spent the night socialising and tonight I am travelling home!
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Home sweet home!
Here are some pictures of all my work so far ... from left to right ... Endurance, Dauntless, Mars, Gothic and Defiant (Torpedo)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork42.jpg)
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork43.jpg)
Tomorrow I will get on with the "Mast" casting and try and finish the other two cruisers. If the parcel Fedex are holding for me is what I hope it is I am in for a pleasant suprise there too.
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Looks great
Will you make a similar prow for the bb as well ?
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I would like to make escorts and battleships in a similar fashion, but first I need to get the last two cruisers finished.
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It was a nice quiet weekend getting back together with my family ... I did however start on something for the next stage of my fleet ...
Any guesses what this is going to be?
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork46.jpg)
and from another angle ...
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork45.jpg)
Polite answers only please!
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Well its been a fun few days working out a plan for the battleship. First thing I did was to cast the new prow in resin so I could make multiple versions, then I have made a rough plan of the various aspects to the Battleship and did some measuring and threw away the plan and started again <laughs>. Finally now I have a plan for a multi-section model broken down into wings (2 sets one small, one large), weapon bays section, Prow, core body, keel, bridge and finally engines. As the prow is one of the most noticable sections of the Kar Duniash pattern I decided to work on the prow first and have been building the upper structure and some side panel decoration because the prow being bigger has a very "empty" feeling. I plan 4 variants of the prow the first two will have side panels sculpted in green stuff, the next will have some of the rear section of the prow cut away showing the super-structure and finally there will be an attempt at a special version of the "eagle" on the front.
For this stage of the project the aim is plan and build each section starting with the prow and working back.
This morning before dashing out of the door I snapped a couple of shots but forgot to lower the exposure, which is essential with plasticard as the overwhelming whiteness conceals all the detail. I really should ask "Klaus, not Santa" how he sets his camera for all the plasticard models he builds (see Klaus's work here (http://"http://fischers-design-shop.blogspot.com/2010/09/project-nighthawk-3.html")).
So here are the disappointingly hard to see prow shots (I will do some more tonight with better exposure and add them in the next post): -
From the side
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork47.jpg)
From the front
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork48.jpg)
and here is the green stuff sculpt I am working on for the side panels, he represents the faceless faithful who keep the Imperium strong against the Xenos and Traitors
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork49.jpg)
He still needs his hands added, but the hood will remain empty to reprecent the "faceless" masses.
I am quite pleased with the sculpting given the very small scale.
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Hi,
I think I am going to add you into the basement. Put some chains on your ankles.
Then just request you to build me such a fleet.
:)
Good work.
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Are you sure you don't play DARK eldar ... especially basement and chains stuff <grins>
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It is only a thin line between the Eldar. ;)
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I recieved a few PM's about the tools I used to do the fine scale sculpting above. I used Perfect Touch tools from: - http://www.perfect-touch.com
They are a specialist sculpting tool company and make a number of small scale tools for sculptors of wax, putty, greenstuff etc. The biggest problem is the cost to be honest, even when I bought my set 8 or 9 years ago they were $180.00 for a set of 10 tools.
You can see the Super Fine Pro Metal tips set that I use below and there is a link to them here: - Super Fine Tool Set (http://www.perfect-touch.com/superfine_metal_tip_pro_enlarged.htm)
(http://www.perfect-touch.com/SFP-11J_Webpage_New_jpg.jpg)
(http://www.perfect-touch.com/SFP-11J_Webpage_Closeup_jpg.jpg)
My favourite tool is the bottom one, which is a very small version of the Wax Carver #5, one of the most popular tools used by pro-sculptors.
In addition I use a 3x Optivisor when working on this scale as its the only way to see what you are doing (I have poor eyesight anyway).
I just checked and the current price for the set is around $225.00
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A quick update on the Battleship prow, the base outline for the eagle has been done as you can see here: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork50.jpg)
I am now going to use a piece of paper to trace the outline of the wing shape from one side and transfer it to the other and repeat it in greenstuff, this will ensure the two sides are basically indentical.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork51.jpg)
Once the shape is on both sides I will build them up and add more detail including the eagles head which will be made from plasticard with greenstuff details.
On a different track I have been talking to MangoZac from Resin Addicts (http://www.resinaddict.com/blog/2010/07/project-zeus-light-cruiser/) about his Zeus Light Cruiser and the various problems we both face casting, mouldmaking and scratchbuilding. The concept of making a Kar Duniash version of the Zeus Light cruiser came up during our discussions and as I had a Zeus I thought it would be cool to show you the results so far of the conversion: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork52.jpg)
Tomorrow I will add the antenna around the bridge, using short and cut down imperial antenna from my antenna mould. Possibly I will add some wings and remove the side plates and see what that looks like.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork53.jpg)
It makes for quite a different look of Light cruiser ... but all in all I like it. At the very least its basically unique!
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A quick update before bed ... here are a couple of shots of the other side ... you will note the leading edge of the wing hasn't been done yet ... as it is an overlay and requires the green stuff "feathers" to be dry before applying it.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork54.jpg)
From the "view above" you can see the wing feathers line up and the tracing and marking onto the other side worked and gave me the correct outline.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork55.jpg)
Just so you know this was two hours of work for something 15mm x 7mm!
This will give me the base for doing the leading edge, which in turn will give me the head of the eagle. Finally the wings will be detailed a bit more to give depth as well as area. Once complete this prow will be ready to be moulded and cast and used as the master for another pair.
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that works pretty well on those light cruisers :) I really like the flatter turrets you've got going there.
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@ Vaaish : Yes, modifying the turrets was one of the first things I had to do ... the big clunky turrets don't suit the Kar Duniash pattern as well as those sleek ones.
While looking for scratch building inspiration I came across this in my archives. Its a picture of the original Rogue Trader cruiser being built, when I saw this years ago I saved it to my "Inspiration folder", on an interesting note it was Bobby Wong (http://miniature-art.tripod.com/home/index.html) (the Golden Demon Slayer Sword winner who lives in NY) who first turned me on to keeping inspirational images from then net, funnily he had some of my early Salamander sculpts and designs in his inspiration folder.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork56.jpg)
Some very odd things to note ... Firstly the column between the weapon bays is 180 degrees rotated compared to the final model. The creator has used green stuff completely to build the prow shape and amusingly plastic wings from some other model for the wings. There I am working hard on a new version rebuilding the wings using GS when the scratchbuild used them from something else ... oh the irony.
The rear columns all align perfectly, which they CERTAINLY don't on the final version (blame the caster/moulder for that) .. I also finally understand why the wings vary significantly in detail as they approach the body, the body section was taken in plastic from something else and therefore differs. In addition there is a very small "antenna" for want of a better description that is just behind the prow and that is completely gone on the final.
Great piece of work all told, he uses Green stuff for more than I would naturally but gets nice clean hard edges on his work. Now that I have seen the WIP of this ship I find myself more than ever wanting to complete the Battleship and do justice to the Kar Duniash pattern of ships.
Certainly inspirational!
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Tonight's two special words after the postman arrived ... Ninja & Magic ... More later after I have played
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When I first began this project I had a number of objectives: -
1. To complete something I had begun, I set myself a target of 4 cruisers and 3 light cruisers, painted and based.
2. To make my army as modular as I could, weapons interchangeable etc.
3. To not let my logging of the project become more important than the project itself (something that happened with my Steel Legion project)
4. To relax and have fun while I was doing it (who would have guessed that sometimes I become a bit overly focused)
Well so far I have achieved the following
1. Not based the cruiser or light cruisers so not finished yet.
2. Modularisation is complete.
3. I managed to make the fleet more important, but funny enough its very easy to slip into "self publishing" instead of modelling.
4. Relaxing and having fun has been achieved, making a BFG fleet and getting some background behind it was very enjoyable.
Hmm that makes 3 out of 4 ?
So why am I not basing my fleet ? ... well to be honest I have been waiting for the arrival of a parcel from the USA. I knew what I wanted and ordered it within a week of starting the project on the 11th last month: -
Ninja Magic Magnetic Adaptors (http://www.ninjamagic.com/cgi-bin/gt/tpl.h,content=19&)
They sound like something from a bad Hong Kong movie ... but when you look closely they could solve one of the biggest problems I have with BFG ... my bloody ships snapping of the stupid little plastic stands!
(http://www.ninjamagic.com/images/products/adapters/adap_complete.jpg)
You can see above the ship being held upside down ... so those magnets are strong
You can see the ship detached ... so those magnets are useful
When I saw them release a few years ago I knew that I would have to have them for any space fleet in any game that I did ... because I LOVE magnets!
Well it took 2 weeks and 4 days (see I counted every day) for them to arrive, but today they did!
I have 24 adaptors in total .. and 16 extra of the part which fits into the ship, which lets me field 24 ships out of a potential 40 at any one time.
Lets have a closer look: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork57.jpg)
You can see the magnet and "crown" for want of a better word, attached to the underside of one of my cruisers. I already decided to paint the stalks on my bases black so I painted the "crown" black too ... The part that goes into the ship was 3mm in diameter so I used my drill and resized the hole to 3mm for a nice tight fit and used some superglue to hold it in place. I also used the setting time to align the crown so that one of the "indents" pointed forward, as there are 8 "indents" that meant I could use the notches on the crown to rotate my ship in exactly 45 degree steps (quite handy).
Here you can see the same pieces from the side: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork58.jpg)
Here is the base with the other part of the magnetic adaptor fitted, note the inverse crown and the hole where the magnet slides into. Together they form a nice tight bond and the ship cannot rotate easily.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork59.jpg)
Now put the two together and you get: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork60.jpg)
I painted the stand black deliberately to hide the fact the adaptor was there, I wasn't sure if it would look "chunky" ... but I think it actually looks good and doesn't stand out in any way. By adding in another adaptor I can also change the height of the model: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork61.jpg)
Which is very handy when things get crowded on the board, just lifting up your fleet another 2.5cm gets them clear of the opposition.
Here is a shot showing all the various parts of the Magnetic Adaptors in close up and how they fit together: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork62.jpg)
Well as you can do doubt sense by now I am impressed with the product and very happy with my first usage! ... Now I am going to have to find a way to make my bases "zing", but more on that later!
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Yesterday I got some sculpting done on the prows ...
I have smoothed, rounded and added bulk to the wing on the "right" as facing, in addition the second prow received its first layer for what obviously is going to be a fish according to my daughter: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork63.jpg)
I have also filled in the leading wing edge on the "left" as facing side, I also
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork65.jpg)
Here you can see the view from the top .. note the longer shadows on the "right as facing" side ... indicating the thicker wings. This added a subconcious unbalancing of the wings from this view, everytime I look at it I want to hurry up and bulk out the other side wings to restore the balance.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork66.jpg)
Somebody asked about the relative size of the sculpting tools I used, having seen the perfect touch tools photo's ... here is a picture showing the tools in question
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork67.jpg)
On the top is my home made mini-wax carver #5 ... basically metal bashed with a hammer and ground with a grinder, its about 1/10th the size of the the Wax Carver #5 beneath it. finally at the bottom is the Perfect touch tool most like a Wx Carver #5 which is tiny compared to both of them. Each of these tools has a place in my sculpting work depending on the level of detail sought.
Lastly, Horizon, the editor of "Warp Rift (http://"http://www.tacticalwargames.net/archive/bfgmag/index.html")" and all round BFG stalwart was curious to see my light cruiser body with the Zeus prow, so here it is: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork64.jpg)
... I think it looks too stubby! What do you think?
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I like how the voss prow hangs over to add a vertical line to the horizontal line of the hull
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I added the head to the eagle on the first prow last night, turned out to be a bit fiddly but it worked out ok in the end.
I carved the shape in plasticard and then built up the neck and shoulder area using greenstuff. I find mixed greenstuff/plasticard hard to see clearly in photo's but here it is anyway, when cast into resin and all the same colour it will be seamless. All that remains on prow 1 eagle is two wings on the left facing side need to be filled out and the top edge on both wings added.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork68.jpg)
I need to do some filing to the back of the head to get the shape right and am waiting on the greenstuff to set hard before doing so.
In addition I added the eagles fan tail on the second prow as well, need to tidy it up but I got the shape right in the end. The rest of the body shape has been roughed out, the wings, chest, feet and head need to be done still .. a long way to go on a more detailed eagle on the second prow.
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Well unfortunately I seem to get the same cold / sneezing / coughing that the rest of my family and friends had, so today I spend at home taking it easy in bed.
So most of today's stuff was done yesterday or in about a 1hour window where I did some modelling this morning.
First up I added the top edge to the wing on both sides of the prow so it is now officially completed. I will be moulding it tomorrow along with the superstructure, a turret and a sphere, which will let me use one mould to do the complete prow and all options for that prow. Now this prow (the master) is completed I will move back into the weapons area of the battleship, which will be a LOT less sculpting and a lot more plasticard work (and therefore much faster). I will continue to work on the other prows alongside the main parts of the Battleship, but they are not cruicial..
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork69.jpg)
You will also notice an odd purple ship next to the Prow, this is an out of production Nicassar Dhow for the Tau fleet. I had planned to complete my imperial fleet and then invest in a FW tau fleet as I LOVE the look of their ships and noticed that the Dhow was in the proposed 2010 rules for the Tau and in the Armada book also. When I looked at the cost of buying my fleet I noticed the Dhow was no longer made and could not find them anywhere. Eventually someone on eBay had them so I bought them at the ludicrous price of 7 for £68, which should be more than enough for my needs, I might even sell some of them.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork70.jpg)
Lastly, have you ever doodled with a pen and paper while thinking ... well last night I was doodling with green stuff while watching Fringe and found that I had come up with something vaguely resembling a cherub, then I had an interesting idea about cherubs! ... so I set about finishing off the cherub, he still isn't done yet but I am getting the feeling of the shape, so will complete him and cast him up for a side project that is also 40k related. Oddly with an unfinished face he almost feels menacing.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork71.jpg)
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Brother Argos -- I love this thread! Your putty work looks really good. And thanks for the shot of the sculpting tools! I need to track down some of those tiny ones.
I'm not a BFG player, but I do enjoy reading about the modelling and casting that you do to get your fleet together!
Maelstrom Invictus!
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Thanks BlackEd ... you should take a look at my old Steel Legion work over on Warseer for more Casting Information.
Well I got distracted with yesterdays cherub ... significantly distracted. I started envisioning a busy command deck ... in typical anachronistic Imperial style there would be a large table with servitors moving ornate models of ships around using long poles to represent the current battle. Like you see in WWII movies showing air battles take place.
Once the idea had gotten into my head I had to try and make an ornate base for my models something very different from what I had normally seen. Using some rolled thin greenstuff I sculpted a banner waving in the wind and used ultrathin superglue to coat it (hardening it and creating a gloss surface). Here is the banner ..
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork74.jpg)
You can see a number of cracks in the banner, where it was put under pressure for moulding.
Once I had the banner ... and the cherub(s) (I made another one) ... I set about casting them so I could make these two shots ... obviously they need painting as does the banner. but I can already see the name of the ship in my minds eye ... being held aloft by small cherubs as the "Ship" is moved using a long pole on the "battlefield" by a servitor.
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork73.jpg)
With a ship
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork72.jpg)
There is still more to do on the bases ... but I am getting there .. slowly!
I must admit when I first saw it all assembled it had a definate 40k feeling about it ...
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That looks uber cool! Great idea and great execution!
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The banner+cherub idea is awesome!
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@ Vincent : Having seen your greenstuff work with Warmaster I appreciate your comment :)
@ Guthwine : Thank you :)
A quiet Saturday trying to recover led to nothing getting done modelling-wise ... and I had a friend coming down on Sunday for a day of playing the Horus Heresy Boardgame. Which I must admit much to my surprise was excellent!
Lets take stock of the project and its aims shall we: -
Stage 1. Finish completely 7 cruisers (3 Light, 4 Normal). This involved creating the light cruiser using a mixture of kitbashing and scratchbuilding.
Stage 2. Scratchbuild a Battleship in the same style as the Cruisers.
Stage 3. Build Escorts in a similar style to the others.
Stage 1 & 2 have overlapped slightly as I was waiting for necessary components for the basing, which have now arrived!! although the intent was to keep each stage very clearly separated.
My current list of tasks for Stage 1 are: -
1. Finish work on bases (I have one more idea to test for my bases and I am waiting for a purchase I just got the stuff I was waiting for this morning)
2. Produce banners for bases (run the mould another 6 times at least)
3. Magnetise all bases with the Ninja Magic Adapters
4. Assemble all Cruisers and finalise.
My current list of tasks for Stage 2 are: -
1. Mould the Battleship Prow
2. Reproduce 3-4 Battleship prow for experimentation
3. Start work on the battleship weapon area and keel (lots of plasticard)
4. Work on the Engine section and wings.
5. Work on the Bridge Section.
As all my components have now arrived for Stage 1, I think I will cease work on Stage 2 till all the Cruisers are based and finished.
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Before I played around with Cherubs (and boy does that sound wrong when I reread it) ... I had planned to do some self produced water slide decals for my bases. Now water slide decals come in two flavours, either a clear or white backing depending on your whether your decal has bright or white colours in it. I went for white as I wanted stars and nebulae on my decals and to work they need to be quite bright.
Using photoshop I prepared a number of different examples to test, printed them to normal paper first (to check the orientation etc) and then printed them onto the £1.85 a sheet decal paper. At that price I didn't want any mistakes, wasting sheet after sheet of mistakes could get very expensive. I was using Laser decal sheets, but they do Inkjet sheets too (which are a bit more complex to use), once the sheet was printed I cut around the decal and put it into a tray of water as one normally does. After about 45 seconds the decal was movable and so I transferred it to the plastic base and slid it around till it was centred.
Now the one big problem was the base was not flat ... its rounded nature (rather like marine shoulderpads) can cause nightmares for decals and indeed whole areas of the decal lifted up from the base and refused to lie flat. I had met this problem before however and own a product called Micro-Sol ... I had liberally covered the base in Micro-sol before applying the decal and once centred I then applied a layer of Micro-Sol to the top as well. I then left it for 30 seconds to partially "melt" the decal and deform it so it would follow the contours of the base. I then looked for trouble spots and re-applied more micro-sol till in the end every raised area was flat and adhering nicely to the surface.
I then let it dry naturally and painted the rim and stalk black to match. I repeated this for all three of my tests/examples so I could compare them on the bases and here they are: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork77.jpg)
As you can see the technique works nicely and I can think of a number of tweaks and redesigns for the decals to enhance them further ... here you can see a shot on the base lying flat under a ship, its normal position: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork75.jpg)
I think it looks nice and quite professional, almost like a printed counter in a game, but it does as a friend of mine pointed out lack a certain artistic warmth.
Here are two similar views showing the Cherub name banner and the base decal for your comparison ... Bearing in mind the banner isn't painted but imagine it was ..
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork76.jpg)(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork72.jpg)
Which would you use for your fleet?
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I think the cherub banner is more interesting, but the decal is much more practical.
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I might well try and come up with a solution that uses both if I can!
No progress tonight, I actually managed to have a game of BFG for the first time in two years! ... I will have a clear night tomorrow so I can get to work again :)
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perhaps something more scroll like? much thinner strip that bends around the base with the cherubs holding it could work and leave space for the decal starfield and fire arcs.
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Actualy, and to stay within the original vision of ships being pushed around a tactical table, why not use the starsprangled decals on the bottow and EXTEND a (for lack of better word) "handle" from the top of the vessel that has the banner........
1) better visibility
2) allows you to pick up and move the ships without bothering the delicate bits on the ship itself......
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Some days go really well (making Cherubs etc) ... some days just FAIL
Last nights task was to make 4 bases for my ships and solve the banner / decal issue, I worked out a way to do the banner decal thing using magnets .. so it was a good start.
Then I hopped into Photoshop and started making a master decal from my previous work ... and decided to remove the ship class description (its stupid as I magnetise all my ships they can be any class) ... I fiddled ... tidied .. and got what I wanted. I duplicated four of them and gave them names with a central theme and printed them on the Laser Decal sheet.
All was going well ... little did I know ... I kept going and painstakingly removing bubbles and flattening the decal to the curve of the base I proceeded to spend a couple of hours getting my bases done. There they sat all looking good if I say so myself.
My test base had gotten scratched when my daughter had picked it up (risking my wrath <grins>) ... so I was aware the decals were thin. I decided to put a couple of layers of Varnish on them to protect and give a little gloss / satin finish (looks good starfields).
So over eager (bad move at 10pm when your tired) ... I grabbed a couple and popped them into my spray booth and went for it ... the coating was smooth all looked good ... I let them dry off while I was getting ready for an early night.
Upon my return ... I saw large areas of the decal going all crinkly and weird ... DAMN ... I should have only done one not two .. and should have put a thin layer of hand painted varnish down first. So two down ... two to go.
I hand coated a single one next ... and tried again, only to discover one coat was not enough and it still crinkled ... just less.
Finally I ditched purity seal and moved to Vallejo Silk Varnish in a can. I worked perfectly and did not crinkle at all ... all was good and at least one was ok :)
Then as I carefully picked it up to put under my lamp to dry off quicker ... I fumbled badly and dropped the damn thing onto my floor where it got covered with cat hair and other detritus.
So about 4hrs work ... all for NOTHING.
Here are results ...
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork78.jpg)
Bulwark of Faith looks ok .. but that's after I got hair etc. off ... and then I noticed the decal was offset <sighs>
So it was one of those epic FAIL nights!
But I needed to show you guys so you can see I did actually do the work <grins> .. and if you can mentally remove the bad stuff I think they would have looked really good.
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I did manage to file down the Golden Targe and Bulwark of Faith bases using an extremely fine sand paper. I removed the crinkles, touched up with black paint and then re-varnished using Vallejo Silk. I left them to sit for 2 hrs. till they were thoroughly dry before moving them (hindsight is a wonderful thing). The remaining two crinkled bases were un-recoverable sadly.
Tonight I will get another 5 done with no mistakes this time, that should give me all the bases I need for my 7 ships!
Once that is done I can get back to working on the battleship.
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Well it was a good weekend all round, got all the bases completed and varnished properly on Friday night and if you look closely at the stalk on Bulwark of Faith you will see a small embedded magnet for the cherub banner, which will eventually be added to all the others. However I stopped working over the rest of the weekend and spent the time with my daughter Hannah who had her 12th birthday over the weekend :)
Please excuse the hastily snapped photo from this morning, I was just heading out of the door and wanted to get a shot to show the progress made!
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/bfgwork79.jpg)
As you can see the magnetic adaptors have been fitted to the bases, and now the corresponding adaptor end must be put on each ship. I am also painting up a test cherub banner to see what colours to use. I am hoping for completion by the end of the week (minus cherub banners which I have now relegated to "decoration" rather than essential).
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Those bases look great! I want some. Seriously.
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This is just spectacular. Awesome work and keep it up!
-Zhukov
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Thanks guys! ... I appreciate the support.
A friend and I setting up a small test campaign ... for those interested here is the map: -
(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/campaignmap1024.jpg)
A high resolution version can be found here: - Hi Res Map (http://"http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/argos/BFG/campaignmap.jpg")
Its a simple Chaos vs Imperial campaign with the following rules changes.
Escorts must make up 33% of the fleet, so in our campaign 660pts out of 2000.
To counter the quick death of Escorts due to Assault / hit and run tactics we are following the rules suggested over in the rules discussion forum of changing the hit chance to 4+ instead of 2+ as well as allowing a Brace for Impact against the hit (as per FAQ 2007). These changes should go a long way towards making Escorts viable again and part of the campaign will be to test this, as well as using more "Historically" realistic fleets.
Where possible the new FAQ 2010 will be used for the games and campaign.
Our first game scheduled for Thursday will be a "Fleet Engagement" at Passepatout with 1000pts of fleet each.
We are using Blue book fleets with the Torpedo Variants, Torpedo Bombers and Mine layers special rules from the Armada book.
Should be FUN!
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This log will be going dark for a week and a half as I will be involved in some real life stuff.
Unlike my steel legion log, this one will be returned too when I am finished!
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Hi, any news on the models here?
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Dunno, but I'd be happy to make some sort of arraignment for some of those prows. They're sweet.
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I can drop cast either resin or metal, but I own a spin caster for metal and a pressure casting rig for resin.
Out of interest, where did you get your spin caster and pressure casting rig?