Mordheim => [Mord] Discussion => Topic started by: StyrofoamKing on May 24, 2009, 09:45:43 PM
Title: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on May 24, 2009, 09:45:43 PM
BRETONNIAN CHAPEL GUARD WARBAND
Special Rules: Chivalry No Knight may ever use any missile weapon at all, with the exception of Holy Water. Likewise, they will never use any drug or poison.
Lord’s Boon: Every Knight, either at warband formation or upon later recruitment, is likely to start with some sort of boon from the baron, marquis, or similar lord he serves. Each Knight may, upon purchase, start with ONE of the following items, which is bought at half cost: a Warhorse, Light Armor, OR Heavy Armor. This item may not be traded, given to another warrior, or sold. The warrior may set it aside and choose not to use it, but no Bretonnian warrior would dare use a boon item from another lord, even after the warrior’s death. At the warband's start up, only 1 Warhorse may be purchased by the warband.
Virtue of Purity: No Knight will ever break from a combat while they are able. They are immune to All Alone Tests. However, they may not voluntarily break from combat, unless he is knocked down.
A Bretonnian Chapel Guard Warband must include a minimum of three models. You start with 500gc to buy your initial warband. The maximum number of warriors in your warband may never exceed 15.
Hired Swords: Bretonnian Warbands may hire the following Hired Swords: Arabyan Merchant, Bard, Beast Hunter, Dwarf Pathfinder, Dwarf Treasure Hunter, Elf Mage, Elf Ranger, Freelancer, Halfling Scout, Human Scout, Kislev Ranger, Mule Skinner, Nomad Scout, Ogre Bodyguard, Pathfinder, Road Warden, Runesmith Journeyman, Wood Elf Alter, and Wood Elf Hunter,
STARTING EXPERIENCE A Questing Knight starts with 20 exp. A Damsel starts with 12 exp. Knight Errants start with 8 exp. All Henchmen start with 0 exp.
SKILLS Questing Knight: Combat, Academic, Strength, Speed, Special Damsel: Academic, Speed Knight Errant: Combat, Strength, Speed, Special
HEROES 1 Questing Knight - 75gc M WS BS S T W I A Ld 4 4 3 4 3 1 4 1 8 Weapons/Armor: A Questing Knight may be equipped with weapons and armor chosen from the Knights Equipment list. Special Rules: Leader Knights Virtue / Chivalry / Lord’s Boon Ride: A Questing Knight automatically has the skill 'Ride Warhorse'. Skills: Combat, Strength, Acad, Speed, Special
0-1 Damsel – 35gc M WS BS S T W I A Ld 4 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 7 Weapons/Armor: A Damsel may be equipped with hand to hand weapons chosen from the Bowmen Equipment list. She may not wear armor. Special Rules: Prayercaster. The Damsel starts with one spell from the ‘Prayers to the Lady’ Prayer list, and may learn prayers from it as detailed in the Magic Section.
0-3 Knights Errant- 35gc M WS BS S T W I A Ld 4 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 7 Weapons/Armor: Knights Errant may be equipped with weapons and armor chosen from the Knights Equipment list. Special Rules: Knights Virtue / Chivalry / Lord’s Boon Impetuous: Whenever a Knight Errant charges, he is Immune to Fear. Also, if a Knight Errant is within charge range of an unengaged opponent that is not knocked down or stunned, he must pass a Leadership test or he will involuntarily charge the opposing model. If several unengaged opponents are within range, you may choose which he charges.
HENCHMEN 0-5 Squires 25 gold crowns to hire Knights are served by their Squires, commoners who ride to the hunt with their master, and who accompany him to war. They are chosen from the fittest and youngest of a Knight’s retinue, and they are trained and schooled by the knight himself. If a squire performs some great deed or service to his master he may even be raised to the ranks of knighthood! M WS BS S T W I A Ld 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 Weapons/Armor: Squires may be equipped with weapons and armor chosen from the Battle Pilgrims AND from the Bowmen Equipment lists. A Squire may not ride a horse unless the Questing Knight and any Knight Errant in the warband are riding warhorses. SPECIAL RULES: Knighthood – When a Squire receives ‘TLGT’, you may choose one of two options: to have him remain a Squire, or to have him become a Knight. If you choose to keep him a Squire, he may choose two skill lists from Combat, Academic, Strength, or Speed, and retains the normal equipment tables. If you choose to make him a Knight, he immediately gains the rules/bonuses ‘Chivalry’ and ‘Virtue of Purity’, instead of rolling for an immediate advancement. The new knight may learn Special Skills, in addition to two other skill sets, but must immediate switch to new Knight Equipment list. The new knight must forsake all missile weapons, and cannot use them.
0-5 Battle Pilgrims - 35 gc each Battle Pilgrims are zealous peasants that will guard the remains of a dead Grail Knight, and keep vigil over any chapel that houses it. If the chapel is secured by a heavy watch, small numbers of the pilgrims will allow themselves to follow a Questing Knight in his journeys, as he secures the forests and glen around the gravesite. M WS BS S T W I A Ld 4 2 2 3 3 1 3 1 8 Equipment: May use any items from the Battle Pilgrims Equipment list. Special Rules: Low Caste: Battle Pilgrims are peasants, and while they are not stupid, there is a glass ceiling to what they can attain in Bretonnian society. Low Caste henchmen learn experience and advance as normal, but reroll any results of ‘That Lad’s Got Talent’, and may never become heroes. Hatred: Battle Pilgrims suffer Hatred against all of their enemies, seeing them as enemies and heretics to the true Lady’s cause. Stubborn: Battle Pilgrims reroll all failed Leadership rolls once.
0-7 Bowmen - 20 gc M WS BS S T W I A Ld 4 2 3 3 3 1 3 1 6 Equipment: May use any items from the Bowmen Equipment list. Special Rules: Low Caste Bowmen are peasants, and while they are not stupid, there is a glass ceiling to what they can attain in Bretonnian society. Low Caste henchmen learn experience and advance as normal, but reroll any results of ‘That Lad’s Got Talent’, and may never become heroes.
SPECIAL EQUIPMENT Broadsword - 15gc, Common Range: Combat, Strength: User +1S Special Rules: Difficult to Use, Strike Last Difficult to use: A model with a broad sword may not use a second weapon or buckler in his other hand because it requires all his skill to wield it. He may carry a shield or a kite shield as normal though. Strike last: Broadswords weapons are so heavy that the model using them always strikes last, even when charging. Just like a Double-Handed weapon, learning the skill 'Strongman' negates 'Strike Last'. Note: Even though 'sword' is in the name, a broadsword CANNOT parry. It does count as a sword for the ‘Expert Swordsman’ skill.
Short Sword- 5gc, Common Range: Close Combat; Strength: As user; Special Rule: Parry, +1 Enemy armor save SPECIAL RULE Parry: Short Swords offer an excellent balance of defense and offence. A model armed with a sword may parry blows. When his opponent rolls to hit, the model armed with a sword may roll a D6. If the score is greater than the highest to hit score of his opponent, the model has parried the blow, and that attack is discarded. A model may not parry attacks made with double or more its own Strength – they are simply too powerful to be stopped. +1 Enemy armor save: Short Swords are not the best weapons to use for penetrating an enemy model’s armor. An enemy wounded by a short sword gains a +1 bonus to his armor save, and a 6+ armor save if he has none normally. NOTE: A Short Sword counts as a sword for the ‘Expert Swordsman’ Skill.
Kite Shield- 10gc, Common (Bretonnians only) ARMOR SAVING THROW Save: A model with a kite shield has a basic save of 5+ on a D6 while on foot, and 6+ while mounted (or, if the model is already wearing armor, as +2 on foot, and +1 save while mounted). This cannot bring a save over 1+.
KNIGHTLY SKILLS Only Knights may take ‘Knightly Skills’.
Reknowned Virtue– The Knight may learn one Virtue from the original Bretonnian virtue list. ‘Reknowned Virtue' may only be taken once.
Shield Bash – Each turn, the Knight may make an additional attack with a shield or kite shield. Treat the shield attack as a club.
Bulging Muscles- Gains the +1 Strength from Flails and Morning Stars after the first round of combat.
Untiring - The Knight ignores movement penalties for wearing armor while on foot. In addition, strength, axes, critical hits, and similar modifiers cannot reduce the saving throw lower than 5+, nor will it be ignored by any non-magical means.
LADY’S PRAYERS 1 – The Good Lady’s Favor – Diff: Auto All of your heroes count as having Lucky Charms for this battle, and ignore the first hit against them on a D6 roll of 4+. If they already own Lucky Charms, they ignore the first hit on a D6 roll of 2+.
2 - Blessed Protection Difficulty 8 The Damsel and any Bretonnians within 6" of her gain a ward save of 4+ against the effects of spells or prayers. Test each shooting phase: on a roll of 1 or 2, the spell dissipates.
3 – Floodgates of Courage – Difficulty 7 Any allied warriors within 8†of the Damsel (as well as the Damsel herself) may reroll any failed Leadership tests once. If the Leader is within 8†range, the Rout Check may be rerolled, if the first roll was a failure. This spell lasts until the start of your next Shooting Phase.
4 – Lady’s Scorn – Difficulty 5 Anyone attempting to shoot at the Damsel must first pass a Leadership test, or else they are unable to fire this turn. This includes Silver Arrows, Crossbow Pistols, Hand-to-Hand Pistols, and Template shot weapons that she is within the path of (like Blunderbusses.) This spell lasts until the end of the game.
5 – Elixir of Life – Difficulty 6 Any one model within 4†of the Damsel (including herself) may be healed. The warrior is restored to his full quota of Wounds. In addition, if any friendly models within 4†are stunned or knocked down, they immediately come to their senses, stand up, and continue fighting as normal.
6 – Guiding Vision – Dif 6 With the aide of the Damsel, the Lady guides one of her warriors with a Blessed Vision of what’s to come. He may use this rare knowledge to destroy his foe, or save his own hide. For the duration of the turn, one hero or henchman may re-roll 1D3 dice rolls and +1 or -1 to the result.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on May 24, 2009, 10:05:10 PM
Why fix it? Here's my thoughts:
Protection: I'm not a fan of the current 'Prayer' rule for Bretonnians. I know it's taken straight from the Bret WFB army, but it doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the Mord setting. I mean, Sisters of Sigmar don't start with a default 'Sigmar Blessing' bonus, nor do Possessed have a 'Chaos ward' effect. So, to me, the protection comes in two forms, both slightly less 'divine': 1, a Damsel who has spells of a solely protective nature. Whether it's herself or her teammates, she has an array of spells to ward them from harm. The only spell that makes her 'offensive' is the Scry ability, which lets another warrior reroll their attack rolls (which can also be used defensively, too.) And just like Sigmar, the Horned Rat, or any other deity, if you roll snake eyes on the difficulty roll, the blessed Lady ain't listening. 2, the Lucky Charms, which can be bought without rarity rolls at start up. To me, nothing says 'knight' like a maiden's favor, or maybe a holy item of their faith. It's a small bonus, but saves you rarity rolls later in the campaign. And again, it's mundane rather than from 'on high'.
Armor/Mounts: I decided to make Warhorses and/or Armor half price for Knights at start up, making it quite possible to load up on armor from the get go. If a knight is outfitted with gromril later, however, he can't just 'cash it in' later. It's dear and personal to him. Even with the discount, the amount of money saved is only 115, not much higher than the Marienburgers. If that's too much, maybe we'll just reduce it 10-15gc each at start up.
Shields/Weapons: Shields are very 'knightlike', and I wanted to promote their use. Dual wielding doesn't fit the style, hence the Kite Shield (which, only helps them on the ground. If your group already plays with shields giving +2 armor, then remove them from the list.) Likewise, the knights need good items that can be used with shields: hence the item, the Broadsword, and the addition of 'Bulging Muscles', making Morning Stars worth taking. Both of them can only be used with shields, making a powerful warrior (even if he's making fewer attacks.) (Oh, and to nip the question 'why not take Mighty Blow instead of Bulging Muscles', the answers are: A, in case you have a promoted squire who doesn't have access to Strength, and B, so that a warrior who takes both has +2 St instead of +1.)
Choice of Heroes and Henchmen: Unlike the original Bret warband, which had 6 heroes and only peasant henchmen, I liked the idea of Knight heroes (with a damsel), and squire henchmen. The heroes are very tough compared to most heroes, but they are not cheap (even with the half-off armor.) Likewise, their peasant henchmen are cheap as heck... but they have no strong henchmen, nor can their peasants become heroes and swell your Exploration rolls (it also cheaps the caste system in place, with the dirty commoners never becoming real leaders.) Which is why Squires are the perfect middle ground: they can fight as well as Men-at-Arms, but can shoot like Bowmen; they can become Knights, or stay a half-appreciated middle-class heroes. Very versatile for their cost.
Let me know what you think.
Master: I know you we were originally talking about a Three-Setting Bret band (like the Mercs), but I think for simplicities sake that we should keep it to one for the moment.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on May 25, 2009, 01:30:45 PM
Styro: Hey, not sure a Damsel would be out on a border patrol. She might need another name like Enchantress or prophetess of the lady of the lake.
A border patrol would conjur thoughts of a rugged group of men, you know like Custer's 7th Cavlary, roaming around the fringes of their realm and making sure no one was intruding.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on May 25, 2009, 03:48:38 PM
Ah. Well, another possible title was 'Chapel Guard'... but didn't want to make it sound like the Damsel's in th lead.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on May 25, 2009, 04:04:21 PM
Remember when Warhammer Skirmish came out like 8 years ago? Did they have a name for that scenario that involved Bretonnians on that bridge? Yea, a damsel would be hard pressed for a border guard squad/warband.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Lex on May 25, 2009, 04:22:24 PM
name her: Wanton Wench...... ::)
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on May 25, 2009, 07:42:46 PM
No! Bad Lex! Bad! Sit!
Well, I wanted to give them another name other than 'Bretonnian Warband', for as much as I think the current Bret warband needs some work, I know I'll never truly replace it. Hence the idea of an alternate name, to distinguish it from the REAL one.
Fluffwise, a Border Patrol makes sense for an Athel-Loren Campaign setting, but the Damsel/Enchantress doesn't really belong. So, 'Chapel Guard', or 'Knights of the Realm', or something to that effect.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on May 25, 2009, 09:49:49 PM
I like it...
I really do, there are some point though:
Knight Errants in WHFB only have a ws of 3, should our knight errants have something to match that? Also, they never wear helmets (because it messes with their hair) and they are impetious, should we include this?
The knight of the realm has stats to match a questing knight, perhaps his name should resemble that? (which would then disallow him from using a lance).
I like the idea of cheap armour/horses however I think it should also be possible to take any sword at half price.
I like the damsel, even though I still fail to see why she is more trained in combat than a regular bowman. Also 40gc is a little much, the necromancer is just 35 so I think she should be that too.
I'm tempted to use this as the base for our bretonnian warband and then add three different bonuses like the mercs, this is because I think it is on par with regular mercs as is and therefore could use the boost of something more, it doesn't need to be anything fancy, however I also really like it as it is.
I like the squires.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on May 26, 2009, 03:14:20 AM
Quest/Realm Knight: Oh, is it closer to a questing knight? I'm stuck in 5th Edition. If it is a Questing Knight's stats, it works even better for a Chapel Guard. Know any Questing bonuses?
Errant: WS3 is fine. If so, deduct another 5gc from the price. If they are Impetious, remember how the exact rules? Have to charge any opponent? Take a leadership test, or forced to charge? (A mixed bonus... immune to fear is they impetuous charge.
Cheap: Well, Swords aren't that too expensive. Supposedly, the old 5gc swords on the old list were a typo.
Damsel: 35gc it is (I must have been looking at the Warrior Priest.) As far as the stats, it is explained by the power of her faith... the peasant doesn't believe, and so his mind is the handicap, not the body... (just made that up... convincing?)
Three-part: I don't think it NEEDS it. If not, maybe the price discount is one of the three bonuses. Maybe Strongman is the default for one of the other two, maybe Sprint is the final bonus. Speed, Armor, or Strength.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on May 26, 2009, 05:06:21 PM
If knight errants in WHFB are within charge range of an opponent than they must pass a leadership test or charge. In addition they are immune to psychology while charging. Perhaps this should apply to all targets as the valiant knight storming after a giant rat might seem a little weird.
Questing Knights in WHFB may re-roll all failed psychology tests, this translates well to the immune to all alone we have. No questing Knights can carry a lance, as a lance is a symbol of servitude.
Damsel, well ok WS & Bs 3 it is (she has that in WHFB too so it's fine with me, I've just always found it very weird that a girl who has been taken away from childbirth to learn magic by some weird dryad/elves is quite good at fighting).
I agree, it doesn't need the three-part yet, might need to look at what power level the other bands in this setting will be around.
The idea of giving refunds for swords was mainly fluff, I'd imagine a noble warrior gifted with a sword more often than with an armor.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on May 26, 2009, 08:37:02 PM
Errant: Cool. Were they only immune when they Involuntarily charged, or at all times? Either way, it sounds great. Roots them at 35gc, I think (one WS less than a Champion, but with at least 5gc of Psych bonuses.)
Questing Knight: No lance. Awesome.
Damsel: No clue. But if was raised by elves and dryads, it makes all the more sense that she'd convince the group to venture towards Athel Loren in its time of need.
Swords: Well, I think a Sword was a gift. The armor was a rental. (I mean, a suit of armor back then was as much as a sports car... it was definitely a gift or a loner from a noblemen.)
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on May 29, 2009, 01:48:17 PM
In WHFB knight errants are ItP when they charge, no matter whether they were "impetuous" or not when charging.
I agree with damsel being fine now.
A thing I got to think about is that if I wanted to powerplay this warband, and I had the lady's scorn, I'd get warrior wizard and loads of armor for my damsel, and something to ride, so she could ride ahead, casting that spell and thereby be pretty hard to shoot down, but if we don't think about this it is quite fine, perhaps instead it should only affect a knight within 6" so you don't want to put your damsel first into combat, and you want to protect her instead.
Guiding vision is quite good, but well, OK by me, they have no damage spells.
You've kindda convinced me on not doing the three-part, they are good and flavorful as they are.
(I also like the idea of rental armor: it's almost like buying used cars where the seller tries to give you something that wont work, and you want something that wont screw you over when you are standing out there surrounded by living (read: evil) dead.)
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on May 29, 2009, 08:53:07 PM
Immune to Psych when charging. Cool.
Damsel: glad you like! :D
Lady's Scorn: to be honest, it's not the GREATEST spell. Putting it on a knight within 6" might improve it, though I'm not sure if it would need to be dif 6 for that.
Offensive spells: Yeah, they didn't seem quite... right. Guiding Vision can help on the offensive (considering it only works for this turn... most likely, it will be used on attacks, and the occasional save.)
The other option is to make 'Lady's Scorn' difficulty 7... if they fail the ld test, they are hit with the missile they attempted to shoot on a X+. (2+? 4+?)
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on May 29, 2009, 09:04:50 PM
If they are hit on x+ with Lady's Scorn, it will give way too many dice rolls, making the game much less smooth.
Lady's Scorn dif. 6, target a knight within 6" or the damsel herself?
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on May 29, 2009, 09:42:15 PM
Scorn: Diff 6, targets Damsel or Knight within 6".
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on June 20, 2009, 12:22:50 AM
Well, we were talking about a rewards of the lady table for the bretonnians, similar to the rewards of the shadow lord, here is my rough draft:
Instead of skill, roll 2d6 for questing knight or knight errant: 2 - Called by the lady: The knight is called elsewhere by the lady, he abandons his warband with all his items and leaves this land for good, remove him from the roster (although your gaming group might want to make a special dramatis personae for him ;) ) 3-6 A minor boon: The boon granted by the lady is so minor that it has no real effect, like a lucky letter reaching him from his family back home, or a lucky hit in a contest, whatever the result it has no gaming effect. 7-8 grant of the lady: The lady grants this warrior a special gift, choose one of his stats and increase it by 1, this cannot increase that stat beyond his racial maximum, if all he is at maximum stats he gains an extra attack. 9 ??? 10 A valiant steed: The lady has decided that this warrior needs a valiant steed to ride. He gains a steed with barding and the following statline (which only he may ride off course):
M WS BS S T W I A LD 9 4 3 4 3 1 4 1 7
If he already possess such a steed, treat this as a result of 8 instead. 11 Sword of the lady: The knight is granted one of the might swords of the lady, it has magical attacks, can parry, adds +1 strength and +1 to hit. 12 A sip from the grail: The knight has been accepted by the lady, and becomes a grail knight, he receives +1 strength, +1 toughness and +2 leadership in addition he is immune to psychology, if the warband contains no other grail knights he will immediately become the warband leader. These stat increases may take him above his racial maximums up to a maximum of 10 in the respective area.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on June 20, 2009, 06:24:54 AM
I really like. As for filling in the holes, why not take some of the 'spiritual' stuff I dropped out of the original Bret warband? It seems silly to have ever-present prayers with a secular warband, but if they are seeking the Lady's blessing, it would make more sense that they may randomly be granted it.
7-8 - May gain +1 Char. or gain a 'Virtue' from the original Bretonnian Warband skill list.
9 - The hero gains the lady's mark of protection. Before playing a game, the hero may make a Leadership test. If the test is successful the Lady of the Lake has bestowed her blessing upon the hero. The blessing takes the form of a powerful curse upon the enemies of chivalry, and in particular upon those that make use of the foul and dishonourable weapons of mass destruction. Any model in the opposing warband who wishes to fire a missile weapon at the blessed hero must roll a D6 and score 4+ to overcome the curse, otherwise they may not fire the weapon. This only applies to shots that specifically target the hero, not shots that include him/her amongst other targets (ex. blunderbuss, grapeshot, etc.)
12: I like. Add 'causes magical attacks', I think. He just radiates holiness now.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on June 20, 2009, 12:19:47 PM
Great idea but just keep them toned done as the Rewards from the Shadowlord in Mordheim are optional and are quite strong.
If a Questing Knight were to gain such Rewards would other warbands be a a disadvantage? What you don't want is everyone picking the Knights to play.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on June 20, 2009, 01:49:02 PM
First, I agree with Dabank, we need to give the other warbands benefits to match these benefits from the bretonnians. Either give them their own table (wood elves & savage orcs?), or a refund when hiring (bowmen, beastmen?).
I like your idea for number 9 and feel stupid for not including it myself, good job.
12, Yes, magical attacks should be added too, however my reasoning was that he probably already has a sword of the lady, but well, true he should strike magical attacks. Also instead of +1 Strength the sword could give +1 to wound undead and the possessed instead? As to make the warband better against those warbands.
I agree with your idea for the 7-8, it is much more smooth, my reasoning was that +1A was in fact the same as an extra arm.
Perhaps the steed should be on a roll of 9 instead and the special ability to be protected from missile weapons on a 10? Mainly as the steed is a one time grant.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on June 20, 2009, 04:18:41 PM
Steed: I agree, the steed (value 100gc-ish) should be result #9, while the blessing (which replaced Chaos Armor, which cianty set at 180gc) should be #10.
Oh, I forgot: when riding that steed and that steed only, the rider doesn't need 'Ride Warhorse' skill. If that's too much, take away the S4 and/or the barding, and make it a regular warhorse.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on June 20, 2009, 04:59:30 PM
Well, with barding and so the value of the steed is rather 160gc, as it has +1 ws, +1s and +1 initative over a regular steed.
Perhaps take away the barding and allow the steed to be ridden without any ride skills?
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on June 20, 2009, 06:43:07 PM
I never like the idea that you needed a "ride" skill for a hero to ride a horse. Maybe something is needed for henchmen by gaining 2 exp or something but heroes should know already.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on June 20, 2009, 08:46:06 PM
Alas it became a rule with the mordheim annual, I'm not sure I like it either, but well, it is a rule.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on June 21, 2009, 06:50:37 AM
Well, without the skill, they can still ride, but anytime they are hit with a missile, or in every turn of combat, they have to roll leadership or roll for 'Whoa boy'... which, considering that's the injury chart, is pretty brutal.
If it's any help, the Questing knight starts with 'Ride warhorse'. Even if all of the knights don't start with it, it'd make sense HE did.
horse cost: well, in the old Shadowlord table, you get chaos armor on a 9 or 10, meaning it's no big if the bonus costs about the same.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on June 21, 2009, 02:14:33 PM
I am well aware of the ride skill and how it works for those without it. Never thought that one was a good idea considering the cost of horses and equipment for them.
The "Whoa Boy" table is a killer also, that is why we never bought horses unless we had tons of extra money to spend.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on June 21, 2009, 02:28:54 PM
Lady Olania of Brionne
Hire Fee: 30 gold crown to hire. The money is actually exausted helping peasants while looking for Lady Olania no mater if they find her or not the money is gone. Lady Olania will only join the warband if they send one or more knights to look for her in the normal manner, rolling under their leadership (representing the knights efforts to gain her companionship). She will stay with the warband provided they pay her upkeep of 30 gold crowns and the leader of the warband must pass a Leadership test, if the test is failed she will leave and takes the 30 gold crowns to get home. She will never return to a warband that fails the leadership roll for her to stay, but if the warband couldn't afford her and then decided to seek her out again she may join in the usual way (see above).
May be Hired: Lady Olania will only join Bretonnian warbands.
Rating: Lady Olania increases a warband's rating by +65
M:4 WS:3 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:2 I:4 A:1 LD:8
Weapons/Armor: Sword and Staff of Brillance (Opponents in base contact are -1 to hit the Damsel in close combat).
Skills Sorcery and Mind Focus (Described in the Annual 2002)
Special Rules Spells: Lady Olania knows the following spells Flight of Zimmerman, Silver Arrows of Arha, Luck of Shemtek, and Sword of Rezhelbel.
Blessing: If any enemy model wishes to shoot at Lady Olania, then they must first roll a 4+ on a D6 to overcome the blessing.
Entrall: At the begginning of the CC phase, select one model in base contact with the Lady Olania, The selected model must pass a Leadership test, or he will not beable to attack in that combat phase. This only works on living male models, this will not work on undead or possessed.
Lady Olania of Brionne
Lady Olania is the daughter of Baroness Louis De Gearld and Lady Elaina born in wealth and splendor. The Lady Elaina died soon after Olania was born, Olania grew in the care of her nanny Celine. Celine herself a damsel of the Lady of the Lake instilled a since of honor and respect for her fellow man in the young Olania. This new found respect didn’t please her father, she would often argue with him over the fates of the serfs and peasants and that they should ease their burdens. Her father although not evil felt everyone had their rightful place in the world weather noble or peasant and this is as it has always has been and always will be.
Displeased at what he considered the interference of Celine in his daughters moral upbringing, decided to send Celine away. Shortly after Celine left Olania received a vision of a beautiful woman made of shimmering water the Lady told her that it was time for her to leave and help those less fortunate then she was. Olania followed the guidance of the Lady ran away, while on the streets she found kindness from the peasants as they had taken her in a kept her safe from harm. She learned their ways and suffered their burdens living with them moving from village to village helping where she could, when she heard of her father’s illness, she decided to go and see him.
Olania returned to her home to see her father, her father begged for her forgiveness as he laid dieing. For it was his own servants that have been there for him, taking care of his daily needs and easing the suffering of old man. After her fathers death Olania relinquished her fathers lands, and sold their possessions.
She now travels the land helping those who are down trodden, and offering guidance to nobles who desire to promote fairness and opportunities to the peasantry. It can be difficult to find her as the peasants are the last people to see her and she will only help nobles willing to treat the peasants with kindness and to aid them in their suffering.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on June 21, 2009, 03:01:15 PM
Nice a DP! (should be posted in the appropriate thread though ;) )
Well, I really like her, and the only thing I would change would be her cost, 30gc might not be enough, but with the LD test it seems okay. Also some clarification on whether the staff of brilliance can be used to attack with would be nice.
She's a pretty neat caster addition to any bretonnian warband.
Also, explaining why she doesn't use the damsels prayers is quite easy, because damsels are only damsels if they have been taken from their family from childbirth.
Also, is she the daughter of a baroness and a lady? Hmm... Odd ;D
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on June 21, 2009, 03:30:52 PM
DaBank: Didn't mean to insult your intelligence, amigo, I swear.
The Lady: I like. While 30gc may be low, it's still TWICE what you pay for the underpriced Nicodemus... and the Ld rules and the pay-whether-you-find-her-or-not is a is a neat twist.
Bretonnians: for clarification, DaBank, would you consider the Bowmen of Bergerac a 'Bretonnian warband', and thus able to hire her?
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on June 22, 2009, 09:05:59 PM
It would certainly follow her fluff :D
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on June 22, 2009, 10:54:21 PM
Remember, I had posted in another one of your threads that this was VCCountblood's design. Not mine. I can take no credit other than finding one of the two he wrote. This Lady was written back around 2003.
Yes, fluffwise it should or reword accordingly.
If I can find the other one, I will post it.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on June 24, 2009, 05:16:35 AM
In that sense, the Bowmen DO have their place and bonuses, even if they don't get a path. They can have the same HSs & DPs as the Knights, but may use the bows and 'woodsy' magical items/artefacts that the Elves can use.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on August 10, 2009, 03:08:07 AM
New Idea: What if, instead of Men-at-Arms, the Chapel Guard could recruit Battle Pilgrims? If the Chapel houses a Grail Knight, it would make sense that a group of the peasants would congregate around it, eager to defend it and the outlying area. Here's what I'm thinking:
0+ Battle Pilgrims - X gc Battle Pilgrims are zealous peasants that will guard the remains of a dead Grail Knight, and keep vigil over any chapel that houses it. If the chapel is secured by a heavy watch, small numbers of the pilgrims will allow themselves to follow a Questing Knight in his journeys, as he secures the forests and glen around the gravesite. M WS BS S T W I A Ld 4 2 2 3 3 1 3 1 8 Equipment: May use any items from the Pilgrims Equipment list. Special Rules: Low Caste: Battle Pilgrims are peasants, and while they are not stupid, there is a glass ceiling to what they can attain in Bretonnian society. Low Caste henchmen learn experience and advance as normal, but reroll any results of ‘That Lad’s Got Talent’, and may never become heroes. Hatred: Battle Pilgrims suffer Hatred against all of their enemies, seeing them as enemies and heretics to the true Lady’s cause.
So here are the three options: a. Leave them as is, and charge 25gc. b. Add 'Stubborn' (immune to all Alone?) and charge 30gc. c. Make them crazed (pass all Psych tests) and charge 35 gc. If so, we'd make them 0-5 rather than allow 0+, but that would mean making the Squires 0+ instead of 0-5.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on August 10, 2009, 06:13:00 PM
add hatred, increase the cost and limit the number of them.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on August 10, 2009, 09:26:31 PM
(I'm back)
Well, If they have no missile weapons (no and not slings the knight wont allow it) I don't think their cost is totally screwed at 25 gc with hatred, I'd like to keep them at that as that makes them rather special though.
Pilgrim equipment list have to be almost only Clubs, axes, Shields and light armour though as I can't see these guys running round with spears or swords.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on August 11, 2009, 03:33:50 AM
DaBank: At the moment, I have them with hatred already, and are charging 25gc. The way I see it, WS2 & BS 2 + the Hatred & Ld8 = about 25gc. Or am I misreading you, and you suggest adding 'Stubborn'?
Master: First off, glad to see you back!
Second, all of the GM pics I found in my brief internet search, most of the Pilgrims are armed with swords and shields. I agree with the 'no missiles' & 'no spears' (no halberds too?), but swords and short shorts makes sense. The kite shields are okay too, right? (give them that cheap 5+ save! Ah, refreshing!)
I'll try to repost the current prototype when I get a chance.
Edit: While I'm on the subject of the warband, I'd love to get an opinion on the Shield Bash skill. Most of the bret skills so far are not too great, so I thought we should take a second look at 'Shield Bash'
Shield Bash - When charging, the Knight may make an additional attack with a shield or kite shield. Treat the shield attack as a club.
At the moment, it's about equal with 'unstoppable charge.' Should it be improved to 'in the first round of combat', or, to make it REALLY good, grants the +1 attack bonus at all times? The latter is better than, say, 'Combat Master', but hardly the strongest skill ever, and definitely promotes the use of shields, which is a personal goal with this warband.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on August 12, 2009, 12:03:39 PM
Shield Bash: I do think it could give +1 attack all rounds, if it just counted as a club or something like that, I think it is a little worse than shaggy hide or well 'ard then (the orc and beastmen special skills giving +1 armour save).
Pilgrims: Ok, swords are in, so are short swords, kite shields seem a good idea. To me 25gc sounds about right if htey don't have any missile weapons or chance of becoming heroes. Compare them to, say, goblins.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on August 15, 2009, 05:34:20 AM
A nice comparison (and afterwards, I thought of 'tail fighting', which is another skill that grants a straight up +1 attack). In that case, it'll grant an extra shield attack, and the Brets finally have a skill worth taking.
I'll update soon.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on August 15, 2009, 11:53:15 AM
I will find my old bretonnian warband I was working on. It still needs some work but I think I figured the battle pilgrims out.
Maybe you can get a few ideas for this one. If not, then you will see what not to do. LOL.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on August 15, 2009, 02:05:33 PM
We'd love to see it, DaBank.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on August 15, 2009, 08:11:55 PM
From 2004. I don't think I look at them again since 2005.
Check out the link and the llink is only good for 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on August 16, 2009, 02:54:34 AM
Awesome. So, to repeat for Master's sake, you have them at 35 gc, hatred, and Stubborn = reroll failed Ld tests. I like. Although, I like them better at 0-5, and will give them a standard HtH equipment list (as there are no real Men at Arms in this warband).
Personally, I don't know why both you and the official Bret warband put Knights Errant at 50gc. (Yours is slightly better, in that you give them WS4 instead of WS3.) 'Immune to All Alone' is barely a 5gc bonus, yet there's a 15-25gc difference between them and Heroes of the same stat line.
Also, I like the idea of a Spellcaster defending them, rather than a 'kneel and pray' protection plan. More of a fluff thing, really.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on August 16, 2009, 06:27:52 PM
I agree with Styro, pilgrims will be a nice elite choice at 35gc.
Also, I can't figure out why knight errants should be 50gc either, they are the same as regular champions, with no missile weapons but immunity to all alone instead, well I'd prefer the regular champion then.
I've grown to like the damsel too.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on August 16, 2009, 07:28:06 PM
Just take the Knights down from 50 but keep in mind they get the ride skill and etc already built into them.
On the Pilgrims I would stay away from saying anything about grail knights as that is who they usually follow basically this bunch I had listed were supposed to be a bunch of "wanna" Knights who were fanatical and hanging on the fringes of the elites.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on August 16, 2009, 10:05:26 PM
Well, I've read both your bret band and the original, and I can't find any reference to the 'ride' skill. In this version, the Questing Knight starts with 'Ride Warhorse', but at the moment, he's the only one.
Grail Pilgrims: DaBank, I'm having trouble following you. To me, if it is a 'Chapel Guard' warband, I don't see why they wouldn't guard a chapel with a Grail Knight interred there. Although, I don't know the new Brets all that well as you seem to, so I may defer to you on the fluff.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: ANSWER_MOD_DABANK on August 16, 2009, 11:01:24 PM
In Bretonnia fluff, battle pilgrims follow Grail Knights. All I am saying is don't mention anything about grail knights and mention something about them (BP) are a bunch of wannabe ramble who follow around any Knight they can. That is why I put the battle pilgrims the way I did and DID NOT mention anything about grail knights.
I am correct, there are no grail knights in this warband?
Ride skills is assumed.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on August 17, 2009, 04:14:28 AM
Ah, well, a few times when writing Sartosa scenarios, I 'assumed' that the readers would understand what I meant... and we both know where THAT got me... ;D
Thanks for the fluff, DaBank. I think I'll merge the two together, and make them guarrd the grail-knight's tomb in the chapel AND follow around up-and-coming knights, devoting themselves to Grail Knights before they even become Grail Knights (kinda like groupies, no?)
Oh, and I updated the front page to have the latest version. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on August 17, 2009, 03:38:15 PM
Also, if we include the gifts of the lady (which IMHO we should), the questing knight can become a grail knight, just like a mutant from a possessed warband can become possessed.
I like the updated version, I think it is ready for playtesting.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on August 17, 2009, 08:43:02 PM
Awesome! I think we'll finalize the 'Gifts of the Lady' when we work on the other 'gift' paths, so they're all equal strength.
So what next? Since they're so close to being done, should we wrap up the Savage Orcs once and for all?
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on November 02, 2009, 04:03:24 PM
Reposting the Rewards:
2 - Called by the lady: The knight is called elsewhere by the lady, he abandons his warband with all his items and leaves this land for good, remove him from the roster (although your gaming group might want to make a special dramatis personae for him )
3-6 A minor boon: The boon granted by the lady is so minor or subtle that it has no real notable effect, like a lucky letter reaching him from his family back home, or a lucky hit in a contest, whatever the result it has no gaming effect.
7-8 7-8 - May gain +1 Characteristic, which cannot bring the knight over maximum stats. Alternatively, you may choose to have your knight gain a 'Virtue' from the original Bretonnian Warband skill list.
9 - The hero gains the lady's mark of protection. Before playing a game, the hero may make a Leadership test. If the test is successful the Lady of the Lake has bestowed her blessing upon the hero. The blessing takes the form of a powerful curse upon the enemies of chivalry, and in particular upon those that make use of the foul and dishonourable weapons of mass destruction. Any model in the opposing warband who wishes to fire a missile weapon at the blessed hero must roll a D6 and score 4+ to overcome the curse, otherwise they may not fire the weapon. This only applies to shots that specifically target the hero, not shots that include him/her amongst other targets (ex. blunderbuss, grapeshot, etc.)
10 A valiant steed: The lady has decided that this warrior needs a valiant steed to ride. He gains a steed with barding and the following statline (which only HE may ride, of course): M WS BS S T W I A LD 9 4 3 4 3 1 4 1 7 If he already possess such a steed, you may either have your old steed ride off into the forest, or may keep your steed, and treat this reward result as a roll of 8 instead.
11 Sword of the lady: The knight is granted one of the mighty swords of the lady. Treat it as a normal sword (ex. parries), but all attacks from it are magical, and all attacks from it are at +1 strength and +1 to hit.
12 A sip from the grail: The knight has been accepted by the lady, and becomes a grail knight, he receives +1 strength, +1 toughness and +2 leadership, all of his attacks are magical, and is now immune to psychology. If the warband contains no other grail knights he will immediately become the warband leader. These stat increases may take him above his racial maximums up to a maximum of 10 in the respective area.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on November 02, 2009, 09:59:57 PM
I think we should wrap up both the Knights and the Savage orcs yes.
Off course, if anyone else has any response or ideas for this, now is when we are very happy to hear them, so I don't have to change PDF's when your wonderful ideas arrive!
So is the question which band should we work on next. I think the wood elves need a little more looking after and also if we want a special type of beastmen in Athel Loren. Also should we check out the Forest goblin warband? See whether we like them enough to make special extra rules for them? See if they look like the same power level?
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on November 03, 2009, 04:30:48 AM
Beastmen & Gobbos: If we had any problem with Sartosa, I think it was that we tried to come up with TOO many warbands.
The beastmen will get access to the new Athel Loren items, and a bunch of new Hired Swords, so they won't be left out. (Although, I do want to include my house rule for Ungors having access to Javelins.)
The forest goblins should not be our main focus, as they are thematically too similar to the Savage Orcs. However, they too get to use a lot of the new AL items (and a few of the new Savage Orc thingies), so they'll get a chance to have fun.
Both of those are well established and pretty-well playtested, so I think they'll make a better point of reference, without needing additional 'extra rules'.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on November 03, 2009, 12:43:05 PM
Ok, good idea, we limit ourselves to three new warbands, an exploration table, the magical trinkets and the rule for it being hard to hire new warriors, it will be a good thing with not that many warbands.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on November 04, 2009, 05:52:30 AM
Well, I guess it'd be 4 warbands, as I'd love to sneak the Slayer Cult in there too. They're pretty much all tested, and as I said, they work great with the Tattoo-theme.
Well, 4 and a half, to be honest. I was also going to make a small variant to the Outlaws, to make them 'Bowmen of Bergarac'. Switch the Sigmar prayers with the Lady ones, add on a tiny rule (give to the poor- makes their selling wyrdstone / acorns give less money, but helps recruiting henchmen), and adding the Staff to the equipment list.
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: Master on November 04, 2009, 10:29:49 PM
Also, what about the horned hunters? Which makes it 5½?
Title: Re: Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband
Post by: StyrofoamKing on November 05, 2009, 05:05:39 AM
Nay, the horned hunters are part of the NC campaign, with the rules already out there. (So are Forest Goblins, which saves us work!)