Specialist Arms Forum
Mordheim => [Mord] Discussion => Topic started by: StyrofoamKing on May 27, 2009, 01:53:16 AM
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SAVAGE ORC WARBAND
Based on ‘Da Mob’ Warband by Mark Havener. Additional inspiration from the Forest Goblin warband by the iCircle Lustria Team
Special Rules
Old Ways- Savage Orcs are rooted fully in their savage ways, and ancient superstitions. They will not use any Blackpowder weapons, nor any type of crossbow. Likewise, they will not use any armor except the types of armor they have listed on their Equipment list (the exception being any Magical Artifact armor, which is allowed.)
Animosity.
Orcs and Goblins enjoy nothing more than a good scrap, unfortunately they’re not always very discerning about who they scrap with! To represent this, at the start of the Orc player’s turn, roll a D6 for each Henchman who is either an Orc or a Goblin. A roll of 1 means that the warrior has taken offense to something one of his mates has done or said. Do not roll for models that are engaged in hand-to-hand combat (they’re already scrappin’!). Likewise, do not test for any frenzied model that is within charge range of an opponent. To find out just how offended the model is, roll another D6 and consult the following chart to see what happens:
D6 Result
1 “I ’Erd Dat!†The warrior decides that the nearest friendly Orc or Goblin Henchman has insulted his lineage or personal hygiene and must pay the price! If there is a friendly Orc or Goblin Henchman or Hired Sword within charge reach (if there are multiple targets within reach, choose the one nearest to the mad model), the offended warrior will immediately charge and fight a round of hand-to-hand combat against the source of his ire. At the end of this round of combat, the models will immediately move 1" apart and no longer count as being in close combat (unless one of them fails another Animosity test and rolls this result again). If there are no friendly Orc or Goblin Henchmen or Hired Swords within charge reach, and the warrior is armed with a missile weapon, he immediately takes a shot at the nearest friendly Orc or Goblin Henchman or Hired Sword. If none of the above applies, or if the nearest friendly model is an Orc Hero, the warrior behaves as if a 2-5 had been rolled on this chart. In any case, the warrior in question may take no other action this turn, though he may defend himself if attacked in hand-to-hand combat.
2-5 “Wud Yoo Say?†The warrior is fairly certain he heard an offensive sound from the nearest friendly Orc or Goblin, but he’s not quite sure. He spends the turn hurling insults at his mate. He may do nothing else this turn, though he may defend himself if attacked in hand-to-hand combat.
6. “I’ll Show Yer!†The warrior imagines that his mates are laughing about him behind his back and calling him silly names. To show them up he decides that he’ll be the first one to the scrap! This model must move as quickly as possible towards the nearest enemy model, charging into combat if possible. If there are no enemy models within sight, the Orc or Forest Goblin may make a normal move immediately. This move is in addition to his regular move in the Movement phase, so he may therefore move twice in a single turn if you wish. If the extra move takes the Orc or Forest Goblin within charge reach of an enemy model, the warrior must charge into close combat during his regular movement.
Distasteful Company. Many Hired Swords refuse to work for Orcs, as they know that Orcs are just as likely to eat them as fight alongside them (ESPECIALLY Savage Orcs). Orcs may only hire the following Hired Swords: Pit Fighters, Ogre Bodyguards or Warlocks. They may also hire any Orc, Goblin, or Hobgoblin Hired Swords.
Choice of warriors
An Orc warband must include a minimum of three models. You have 500 gold crowns which you can use to recruit and equip your warband. The maximum number of warriors in the warband is 20.
Chieftain: Each Orc warband must have one Chieftain: no more, no less!
Shaman: Your warband may include up to one Shaman.
‘Ead’unters: Your warband may include up to two ‘Ead’unters.
Savage Boyz: Your warband may include any number of Savage Boyz.
Forest Goblins: Your warband may include any number of Forest Goblins, though it may not have more than two Goblins for each Orc in the warband (including Orc Heroes).
Crazed ‘Uns: Your warband may include up to five Crazed ‘Uns.
Troll: Your warband may include up to one Troll.
Starting experience
A Chieftain starts with 20 Experience.
A Shaman starts with 10 Experience.
‘Ead’unters start with 15 Experience.
All Henchmen start with 0 Experience.
Orc equipment lists
The following lists are used by Orc warbands to pick their equipment.
Orc equipment list
Hand-to-hand combat weapons
Dagger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1st free/2 gc
Club. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 gc
Battle axe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Morning star . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Sword . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Double-handed weapon . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Spear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Halberd . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Missile weapons
Throwing Axes. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Bow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Longbow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Armour*
Light armour . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 gc
Bone armour . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 gc
Shield . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Helmet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Tattoos. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Miscellaneous
Warpaint. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Goblin equipment list
Hand-to-hand combat weapons
Dagger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1st free/2 gc
Club . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 gc
Sword . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Spear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Missile weapons
Short bow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Blowpipe. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Armour
Shield . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Helmet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Tattoos. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
SKILLS
CHIEFTAIN Combat, Shooting, Strength, Speed, Special
SHAMAN Strength, Special
‘EAD’UNTERS Combat, Strength, Speed, Special
HEROES
1 Orc Chieftain
80 gold crowns to hire
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 4 4 4 4 1 3 1 8
Weapons/Armour: An Orc Chieftain may be equipped with weapons and armour chosen from the Orc equipment list.
SPECIAL RULES
Leader: Any warrior within 6" of the Orc Chieftain may use his Leadership characteristic when taking Leadership tests.
0-1 Orc Shaman
40 gold crowns to hire
Orc Shamans are outcasts from Orc society. They are gifted by the Orc gods Gork and Mork with powers they can neither understand nor completely control. Many join roaming Orc warbands where they are no longer shunned for their abilities, but respected for them.
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 3 3 3 4 1 3 1 7
Weapons/Armour: An Orc Shaman may be armed with weapons chosen from the Orc equipment list. An Orc Shaman may never wear armour.
SPECIAL RULES
Wizard: An Orc Shaman is a wizard and uses Waaagh! Magic. See Waaagh! Magic page15 for his spell list. Alternatively, instead of starting out or learning a ‘Waagh! Magic’ spell, he may learn/start off with the ‘Boilin’ Blood’ spell (see the Skills section.)
0-2 Orc ‘Ead’unters
40 gold crowns to hire
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 4 3 3 4 1 3 1 7
Weapons/Armour: ‘Ead’unters may be equipped with weapons and armour chosen from the Orc equipment list.
SPECIAL RULES
Waagh!: ‘Ead’unters start with the Orc Skill, ‘Waagh’ skill. The warrior may add +D3" to his charge range. If the ‘Ead’unter is frenzied or crazed, measure to see if the opponent is within normal mandatory charge range. If the model is within 3†from the ‘Ead’unter’s maximum charge range, roll the 1D3â€, to see if the ‘Ead’unter is required to charge any model within the 1D3†extra inches. If the range is not enough, the ‘Ead’unter adds that same range bonus (1-3â€) to any optional charges the ‘Ead’unter may attempt this turn.
HENCHMEN
Savage Boyz
25 gold crowns to hire
Savage Boyz are savage and tough. They fear nothing that they can get their bare hands on, though they are even more ignorant and superstitious than most other beings in the Warhammer world. They form the core of any Orc warband.
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 3 3 3 4 1 2 1 7
Weapons/Armour: Boyz may be equipped with weapons and armour chosen from the Orc equipment list.
SPECIAL RULES
Animosity: Savage Boyz are subject to the rules for Animosity (see Special Rules for details).
0-5 Crazed ‘Uns
35 gold crowns to hire
flavor!
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 4 3 3 4 1 2 1 7
Weapons/Armour: Boyz may be equipped with hand to hand weapons and armour chosen from the Orc equipment list. They may not use Missile Weapons.
SPECIAL RULES
Animosity: Crazed ‘Uns are subject to the rules for Animosity (see Special Rules for details).
Crazed: Crazed ‘Uns must charge if there are any enemy models within charge range. While within charge range, the Crazed ‘Uns are immune to all Psychology (including Animosity and Fear). Likewise, while in combat, the Crazed ‘Uns are immune to Psychology. Unlike Frenzy, this effect is permanent and is not canceled by being knocked down or stunned. The exception to the ‘Immune to Psychology’ rule is that any Crazed ‘Uns that become Frenzied are treated as being ‘Frenzied’, and temporarily lose the ability 'crazed'., If the 'frenzy' effect disappears, (ex. the Orc becomes knocked down or stunned), he returns to being ‘Crazed’ as before.
Charge: Crazed ‘Uns’s receive +1 Attack for the first round of combat whenever they charge. They do not get this bonus attack if they are frenzied (they got ENOUGH bonus attacks as is!)
Forest Goblins
15 gold crowns to hire
Goblins are often used as cannon fodder (as well as a food source in lean times!) by their larger Orc cousins. They are usually not as well equipped as Savage Boyz, having to make do with whatever the Orcs do not want or cannot use.
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 2 3 3 3 1 3 1 5
Weapons/Armour: Goblins may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from Goblin equipment list.
SPECIAL RULES
Natives. Used to poking through the underbrush, Forest Goblins suffer no movement penalties from moving through jungle or forest terrain.
Animosity: Forest Goblins are subject to the rules for Animosity (see Special Rules for details). Note: A Forest Goblin who fails his Animosity test and rolls a 1 for the result will never charge an Orc Henchman, though he will still use any missile weapons to attack as normal. Goblins are far too afraid of Orcs to challenge them individually.
Not Orcs: Orcs don’t expect much from non-Orcs, and are therefore not unsettled if Goblins break or get cut down in battle. In fact, they expect as much from these weaklings! Therefore, when testing to see if an Orc Warband needs to take a Rout test, each Forest Goblin taken out of action only counts as half a model. Therefore, a band of 5 Orcs and 10 Goblins (15 models) would only have to take a test if 4 models fell (4 Orcs or 8 Goblins, or some combination thereof ).
Runts: Goblins may gain experience but if they happen to roll ‘That Lad’s got talent’ they are immediately killed by their Orc overlords for becoming too ‘mouthy’ (remove the Gobbo from the roster).
0-1 Troll
200 gold crowns to hire
Trolls are not intelligent enough to recognize the value of gold, but large amounts of food can often instill a certain loyalty in them.
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 3 1 5 4 3 1 3 4
Weapons/Armour: Trolls do not require weapons to fight but often carry a big club. In any event, Trolls can never be given weapons or armour.
SPECIAL RULES Fear: Trolls are frightening monsters which cause fear.
Stupidity: A Troll is subject to the rules for stupidity.
Regeneration: Trolls have a unique physiology that allow them to regenerate wounds. Whenever an enemy successfully inflicts a wound on a Troll roll a D6, on a result of 4 or more the wound is ignored and the Troll is unhurt. Trolls may not regenerate wounds caused by fire or fire-based magic. Trolls never roll for Injury after a battle.
Dumb Monster: A Troll is far too stupid to ever learn any new skills. Trolls do not gain experience.
Always Hungry: A Troll requires an upkeep cost. This upkeep represents the copious amounts of food that must be fed to the Troll in order to keep him loyal to the warband. The warband must pay 15 gold crowns after every game in order to keep the Troll. If the warband lacks the gold to pay the upkeep, the Chieftain has the option of sacrificing two Forest Goblins to the Troll in lieu of buying food (Trolls eat nearly anything). If this fee is not paid (either in gold or in warband members) the Troll gets hungry and wanders off in search of food.
Vomit Attack: Instead of his normal attacks, a Troll can regurgitate its highly corrosive digestive juices on an unfortunate hand-to-hand combat opponent. This is a single attack that automatically hits with a Strength of 5 and ignores armour saves.
SPECIAL EQUIPMENT
Throwing Axes – See the ‘Athel Loren- New Equipment’ Section for more details.
Tattoos - See the ‘Athel Loren- New Equipment’ Section for more details.
Warpaint - See the ‘Athel Loren- New Equipment’ Section for more details.
Bone Armor – 25gc Common
Bone Armor is crudely made armor, using the bones of trolls, ogres, and various other mammoth creatures. It is more cumbersome than iron, but definitely provides ample protection.
An Orc wearing Bone Armor receives a 5+ armor save (as if wearing heavy armor), but receives a -1 Movement penalty. If may be used with a shield, but receives an additional -1 movement, for a total of -2 Movement. If mounted, the movement penalty is passed on to the mount. Bone Armor may not be used with Tattoos, but it may be used with Warpaint (this is an exception to the normal warpaint rules.)
Orc special skills
Orc Heroes may use the following Skill list instead of any of the standard Skill lists available to them.
’ard ead- The warrior has a thick skull even for an Orc. He has a special 3+ save on a D6 to avoid being stunned. If the save is made, treat a stunned result as knocked down instead. If the Orc also wears a helmet, this save is 2+ instead of 3+ (this takes the place of the normal helmet special rule).
waaagh!- Orcs are aggressive creatures and some are experts at bulldozing charges. The warrior may add +D3" to his charge range.
Crazed!- The Orc becomes a slobbering, destructive machine. He gains the ability ‘Crazed’ (see the henchmen ‘Crazed ‘Uns’ for more details.)
rock ’ard- The Orc has a thick, dark-green skin, possibly indicating Black Orc blood. Such is the toughness of the Orc that he may add +1 to any armour saves. Also, if wearing Bone Armor, he may ignore one of the inches of movement penalty (meaning he’s at normal speed with armor, -1 with a shield.)
’eadbasher Orcs- have massive physical strength and some of them even learn to aim their blows at the heads of their opponents, with obvious results. Any knocked down results which the Orc causes in hand-to-hand count as stunned results instead.
Bushwhacker- Whenever an Orc moves into a single tree terrain piece (that is not a structure/building, like a treehouse or fort), the Orc hero may attempt to knock it down. The Orc immediately halts in base contact with the terrain piece, and may not shoot or cast spells this turn. Take an immediate Strength test on 2D6, adding any bonuses for Hand-to-Hand weapons and skills: if passed, the tree terrain is removed from the table. Otherwise, the tree remains where is, and the Orc may attempt to remove it during his next turn. If the terrain piece has multiple trees on the same base, he must attempt to remove them all at the same time, subtracting -1 from his strength for every tree past the first.
Boilin’ Blood: (Savage Orc Spell- Shaman Only) Difficulty 5
The Savage Orc may choose any friendly Orc or Goblin model within 24†(may target himself). That model is now Frenzied. This bonus lasts until the end of the battle, or until the model is knocked down or stunned, whichever comes first. ‘Boiling Blood’ can only affect one model at a time. You may decide to cancel the spell at the start of your Recovery Phase, before rolling for Animosity tests. A successful or unsuccessful casting of the spell upon another model will automatically dispel any previous ‘Boilin’ Blood’ effect granted to a different model.
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CHANGES AND REASONING
Boyz-> 'Ead'unters
With a pull away from missile weapons, I thought the 'Waagh' Skill (adding a measly +1D3" to a charge... hardly a full skill, really,) would be a simple way for stretching their reach. They still have Longbows, so they can potential have some shooting power, but I switched their skills from Shooting&Strength to Speed and Strength. I gave them the D3 without a raise in price, considering they start at 12 exp (Big Uns do too, though I can't imagine why.)
Shaman>Boilin' Blood
I like the idea that the Shaman can make any warrior frenzied at a whim, but it seemed best to use as a Spell. Frenzy can be pretty rough, so rather than make it an auto-ability, it Diff 5. That's two lower than the Ulric-Wolf version, but the Wolf Priest spell has a) no limit to the number of people to cast it on, and b) can target non-humans too, meaning your Ogre Bodyguard can be frenzied too. Rough.
Squigs > Crazed 'Uns
I wanted something like Frenzy, but not quite. Hence the 'has to charge, +1 Attack' rule. It stays around, just to make it easier to keep track of. Master and I discussed whether to make the Big Un's/Headhunters have the crazed ability or the elite henchmen... I went with the henchmen, going with the idea that a) they're replacing the unpredictable squigs, and b) with animosity, they're pretty unpredictable as is. This way, you have your reliable heroes, and your out of control henches.
Troll
At the moment, he's kinda plain. We talked about a feral troll or savage troll, but that seems too many rules on an already full warband. Maybe make him a river troll, just for a slight flavor.
!!!!!EDIT TO ABOVE!!!
I stupidly said that Crazed adds +1 attack, which is ADDED to frenzy. I meant to have Frenzy REPLACE crazed, so they only get the normal double attacks, not double +1. (Given that this isn't the GREATEST boon in the world, should we be nice and grant +1 attack in the first round of combat, regardless of who charged?)
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Sorry for the slightly harsh tone of the comment below, I really can't help it today...
I hate to say it, but I better like what we had before.
Waaagh is a terrible skill and the only reason to take headhunters now is because they are heroes, and can for some reason acces longbows. Instead they should be close combat experts like we discussed.
If waaagh should be useful it should at least give you +1 to hit on the charge or make it impossible to intercept, or giving +1A. As it is now it is terrible compared to the leap skill, yes I know bretonnia have a similar skill but that doesn't make it any better, it just makes bretonnias selection of skills worse.
'Ead'unters make no sense now, this warband should be worse on ranged combat than regular orcs and better in close combat, like middenheimers and reiklanders for orcs. However as it is now they are worse both places, orcs have proper armour, later access to toughened leathers, these guys have nothing to combat that. In addition orcs have crossbows, and other stuff that makes them simply better, these guys are very weak in comparison. If we give them no weapons but thrown weapons, then we could give them acces to shooting skills, thus also allowing henchmens that become heroes to choose shooting skills.
The shaman, well I really liked the totem dance ability, and would rather remove his spellcasting ability than remove that ability, I think rolling one dice per orc at the beginning of the game granting frenzy for the game on a 6 isn't too much. It also adds a lot of flavor to the warband, and gives them something unique, so they aren't just another warband off the band-wagon. Although I like the boilin' blood spell, it just ins't flavorful enough IMO. If not, then we could give them a mad cap mushroom creation skill.
Or another idea:
Sacrifice to Gork:
Gork is the orc wargod, and when the orcs worship him (as savage orcs do the most because they rarely remember more than gork and ...), they are drived into a wicked bloodlust, often ripping apart their own warriors before ripping their opponents open. A good shaman knows how to use this to the best of his ability, and also know that orcs that are fed greenskin blood goes into a quite powerful rage. The shaman may instead of looking for rare items after a combat sacrifice a goblin to the gods (remove it from the roster sheet, keep any equipment) and let the orcs drink the blood from it. If he does so, at the beginning of the next game roll a dice for each orc in the warband on a roll of 6 it is frenzied. If the warband finds prisoners, stragglers or captives it may use them in place of goblins.
I also think we should make the troll a savage troll, -1A -1LD loss of vomit attack, gains frenzy. If that is too good, give him -1WS to boot and he is kindda bad for his price, personally I think trolls are way to expensive, even if I have the gold for it I'd rather have 4-5 orcs than put 200 gold into this brute, an ogre can often do the job quite as good anyway.
Apart from that I like what you've done to this warband:
Bushwhacker seems nice, there it is funny and useful, Rock 'ard is good and funny but gives 4+ save rather cheap, we don't want these to become more armor freaks than orcs, we want them with less armor please... Crazed as a skill is a good idea. Perhaps for savage orcs we shouldn't give them the hard head skill? We don't really want to encourage the use of helmets and they might have a softer head due to the immense amount of shrooms they eat.
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Hmm. Sorry you're disappointed, friend. Let's hope we find a consensus soon. Let us discuss. 8)
Combat vs. Long-range: The way I saw it, if we take the xbows away and replaced them with longbows, they are (slightly) weaker warband. However, the major CC to Range switch is from Shooting Skills to Speed skills. Now that Mighty Blow orc can reach you two turns faster, hitting you harder, and letting you get fewer shots in. I mean, Middenheimers have access to Crossbows, but it doesn't make them overly snipey.
'Ead'Unters: Hmm. Well, the last time we started talking about headhunters, we mentioned that each head collected would grant a greater move bonus... then we worried about keeping track of casualties, and whether the heads could be passed if taken by another warrior, and so forth... it seemed too much, really.
Well, I looked at the old Orc warband, they had an existing skill called 'Waagh: add +1D3 inches to your charges." I agree with you, it's a TERRIBLE skill. But, as a free ability, it seemed not too powerful. (Especially, for some strange reason, the Orc Big'Uns start with 15exp... can't imagine why +1 WS would warrant that.)
So, we can make him better if we want to, but I don't see what's so wrong about a basic champion with a slight bonus. If we do change it, we'll give it a different name than 'waagh', so it's not confused with the orc skill.
SHAMAN/FRENZY:
Hmm. If you don't like the spell idea, then let's go back to the roll of 6 result. The question is whether to go with the 6 on the start of the game, or with a 6 on the Animosity roll. Although it means rolling a few more dice for the heroes, it definitely adds to the unpredictability of the orcs (which, as you said, makes them more than just another 'vanilla' warband.) If we do, this is how I see it:
Roll 1D6 for each Orc each turn that they are not in combat:
1 - Animosity. Ignore if rolling for Heroes. Roll another D6: on 1-whaddya call me, 2-5 squabble, 6-charge.
2-5 nothing
6 - Primal Rage! Make immediate move towards closest enemy model. If this brings the warrior into h-t-h combat, he receives double attacks this first round of combat, as if he has frenzy. Likewise, ignore all psychology. If this doesn't bring them into hand to hand, they return to normal in the Movement phase, and may move as normal, suffering psychology like normal, and having normal attacks.
SAVAGE TROLL
Still not sold on the idea. The hard part is that frenzy is pretty bad as is... giving it to a creature with 3 wounds is just nasty. Another option is to make the Troll suffer the animosity/savage roll like the orcs, so there's a chance that he may attack his teammates or have a frenzied charge.
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If we reduce the trolls attacks by one and give it frenzy it will only net one attack, and get the downsides of frenzy, I think it is fair, bot to make sure it is, i suggest reducing Ld by one and removing the vomit attack, I also like giving it animosity, but it is kindda mean if your troll eats your leader.
I like the animosity idea, but perhaps it would be too good, but well, I like that there's a chance they'll get frenzy, however, if we do it this way, animosity almost seem like a boon to me :D.
Well, I'd like 'ead'unters to be something more, I see that there's a problem with the heads thing, because they will give trouble couting, I still think we should limit them from any thrown weapon but thrown weapons, and then give them access to shooting skills, this way they will be comparable to slayers.
If we want to give them extra movement, we could let them start with the leap skill, it is a lot better than Waaagh! And would give more sense to these guys.
We could also let 'ead'unters choose one race at recruitment, this is the race which heads they hunt, and they hate that race.
To keep it simple we could have races be like:
Humans - All good or neutral aligned human warbands included
Elves - All elves both dark, high and wood.
Dwarves - All dwarves, including the occasional chaos dwarf.
Greenskins - All greenskins including orcs, trolls, goblins and hobgoblins
Chaos - Skaven, Beastmen, daemons and chaos-aligned humans.
Misc - Everything not covered by the other groups.
Perhaps we could randomise which group the ord 'ead'unts?
Giving them hatred also seems like a sort of savage ability.
I agree with you on the combat/long-range issue, but longbows just seem weird for orcs.
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Savage troll: Only one net attack? Okay, I'm convinced.
Animosity: Hmm. Better idea; what if we use a Scatter Dice? For example, here's the rules:
Savagely Stupid: Each turn, take a stupidity test for the Savage Troll (name pending.) If failed, instead of rolling on the NORMAL Stupidity results, roll 1D6 on the following chart.
1-3 Drool - The Troll does nothing but drool this turn, and will not fight. If within Charge range of an enemy model, it will NOT charge, even it frenzied.
4-6 Run Amok - If the Troll is in combat, the Troll fights back as normal. If not in combat, it will travel 3D6 inches in a random direction. If this does not take it into another model, it will end its turn on the spot. It will not move during the movement phase (even if frenzied), but will fight back if charged like normal. If the random movement takes into contact with an opponent, it will attack as normal (count it as an involuntary charge.) If the random move takes it into contact with an ally, it will attack the model. If the ally is not engaged with enemy models, he is forced to fight back. At the start of your next turn, move the troll and the ally 1" apart. The troll moves again as normal (assuming he passes his Stupidity test again!)
Headhunters: Good thinking, but not sure just yet. The problem is, Hatred doesn't stack with frenzy (or, at the moment, crazed.) Still, much cleaner.
Races: When we do the final version, we have to go with orc names for other races. 'Stunties' for example. ;D
Other options: ''Tree-peeples" - Dryads, Treekin, and Treeman.
"weenies" - Halflings & spites (maybe skaven too?)
"zombees" - Undead
(We could do animals, but I think they're such a totem-based culture, I doubt they'd hate things they worship.)
I think they could pick their Headhunters, but they can't choose the same hatred twice. That way, they're forced to hate different races.
EIDT: Arrer boyz
Oh, I forgot to mention, but back in MY day, there used to be figures of Savage Orcs with Long Bows. Now adays, you can only find NORMAL orcs with Long Bows, but by gum, they used to have them. If we did go with the Shooting Skills, would they still have the speed skills?
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So, as far as equip and skill set, what have we decided?
1. 'Ead'unters with Strength & Speed / access to bows
2. 'Ead'unters with Strength & Shooting / access to bows
3. 'Ead'unters with Strength & Speed / access to thrown missiles
4. 'Ead'unters with Strength & Shooting / access to thrown missiles
I'm a fan of 1 or 3 (speed), but Master was interested in 4, were you not?
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Actually I'm a fan of having them 4, with access to speed too. I don't think it will overpower them to have shooting skills when they never can get any missile weapon that isn't thrown (just make sure we include this). This way they are more crazed orcs with thrown weapons and melee weapons running amok into their opponents.
Also, I think that orcs nowadays only have bows, giving them longbows too doesn't make it too imbalanced though, because bows are basically better.
I like the savagely stupid rule, and think we should include it.
Headhunters, what if we instead of giving them hatred just gave them one of the things below:
Re-roll all rolls to hit when charging.
Re-roll all rols in first round of CC.
+1 To hit when charging.
I don't think it will be too much if they get it only against one race.
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Okay, okay. Here's a compromise, using the following rules/limitations:
SAVAGE ORC RULES:
Primitive Tools: Savage Orcs are easily frightened or untrusting of advanced weaponry. They may only use thrown weapons, bows (any form), slings, and blowpipes. Even with the skill 'Weapons Expert', they may never use any form of crossbow, or blackpowder item.
SKILL SET
Chieftain: Combat, Shooting, Strength, Speed, Special
Shaman: Strength, Special
'Ead'unters: Combat, Shooting, Strength, Speed, Special
Boyz Equipment:
Hth: normal
missile: throwing knives, throwing axes, bow, longbow, javelin, bolas
'Ead'Unter Equipment: (for 'Mad Boyz' too)
Hth: normal
missile: throwing knives, throwing axes, javelin, bolas
SOOOOO... it boils down to this....
The leader has access to bows and shooting skills. The 'ead'unters have access to shooting skills, but not to bows. The boyz henchmen have access to long bows, but no skills. That way, if you REALLY want a shooty, non-throwing warband, you have to:
a. waste a skill for your 'Ead'unter to learn 'weapons expert' to use bows (which, if he finds an elf bow, he'd have to do anyway.)
or
b. wait till a boyz henchmen is promoted, and leave the 'ead'unters to hand to hand and thrown weapons.
Sound like a good compromise, no? Possibly even take the 'throwing knives' away from them, so they're left with throwing axes.
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A troll with only 1 attack? Are you going to lower the cost and also lower the attacks on an Ogre.
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Erm, it seems styro misprinted that, it should say net only one extra attack.
The troll will have 2 attacks and frenzy, thus giving it 4 attacks.
Also, I quite like what you wrote there Styro, what do you think we should give the 'ead'unters for a special rule?
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1 net attack = only nets 1 extra attack. Hope that clarifies.
Special Rule: Nah, let's have the Equipment list do it for us. No sense throwing in extra rules needlessly.
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So the 'Ead'unters wont suffer from hatred, +1 to hit or anything when charging?
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Hmm. Well, they have access to more skills than their 'Da Mob' equals, and have a chance of being frenzied on a roll of 6 each turn. I don't THINK they need any extra other bonuses or rulees, really. If they don't have any added bonus, we'll lower their exp to 8 exp (no idea why the mob has it at 11.)
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Well, then I'd rather remove shooting skills and give them a special ability, the last thing we want is for this warband to feel like an orc warband with clubs instead of crossbows. That would just be silly.
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Well, then I'd rather remove shooting skills and give them a special ability, the last thing we want is for this warband to feel like an orc warband with clubs instead of crossbows. That would just be silly.
I agree on this as these Orcs are more HTH type than a shooty type, if needed, just an idea, keep their BS max lower in order to give them more HTH stuff that you guys are talking about.
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Alright, then. Let's take away the shooting from the headhunters and give them pseudo-hatred (reroll all attacks in the first round), with a race chosen at start up.
Although, the chieftain still has shooting and the boyz have access to missiles, so it's not like a promoted henchmen can't become a shooter too. I think that works out.
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Fine so we need to define the races, well here is my rough cast:
(perhaps to make it even we should make him choose whether he hates men or female when hating humans as most of the warriors are human? Or we could make it funny and let male humans count as humans and let elves count as female humans as the orc is too stupid to notice there's a difference.)
Stunties! Dey arnt so tuff!? - All dwarves including chaos dwarves are included in this category!
'Umies! Dar be so many of 'em! - All humans are included in this category.
Weenies! Wraaargh Dey be small! - All halflings, skaven and goblins are included in this category.
Pointy eeers! Why dey have so many bows, and why dey so fast?!? - All elves including dark elves are included in this category.
Me be special, me 'ate wha' otha boyz dinnae 'ate! - This orc wants to be special and hates anything that's not an animal and is not included in any of the above groups. (he does not hate other orcs though).
So that's five groups, about equal in size, the dwarf group might be the smallest, but well, they hate the orc so they have an advantage against you, to match them you must choose a smaller group.
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Well, if we're breaking them into larger groups, let's make 'Stunties' include halflings, and have the five group be 'Creepees', which includes Mutants/Possessed, Beastmen, Undead, & Skaven. A big group, but only 1 or 2 of which is truly 'promoted' to be 'Athel Loren-ian'.
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Ok so weenies get eliminated and stunties are dwarves/halflings.
Creepees instead of me be special? ok...
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Small change: rather than make the roll of 6 equal "free movement of 4, if you reach someone with this free move, you are frenzied" would be better off, "you are frenzied this turn, and must charge this turn if your are within charge range. If not, you must move as quickly as possible to the nearest enemy model, which counts as their move for this turn. If this causes the warrior to run, it may not shoot missiles this turn, but may cast spells as normal."
The difference is, while they lose the extra 4" move, they now are able to be frenzied against any model within 8", rather than 4". Being only 4" away but not in combat while the player happens to roll a 6 is not impossible, but less likely than a charging a model within 8 (in addition to speed skills). Sound good?
I'm also assuming that Forest Goblins can't get the 'roll a 6=frenzied' result, right?
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In retrospect, Forest Goblins getting Frenzy works out great. We'll keep them the same.
'Crazed Boyz' first off, I'm wondering if 'Mad Boyz' is better.
Also, I think the whole 'Crazed' rules are a little on the complicated. Why not make it the following:
Deadly Charge: Whenever 'Crazed Boyz' charge, they receive an additional attack. If the Crazed Boy is frenzied, this extra attack is added after the base number of attacks is doubled.
Crazed: If the Crazed Boy starts the turn within charge range of an opponent, he automatically charges. If there are multiple models within charge range, he may choose which target to charge.
So, in the off chance that a Crazed Boy is frenzied and charges, he gets four attacks, making them able to punch a hole in most warbands. However, that only occurs 1 in 6 charges, and is only slightly better than a charging, duel-wielding Swordsman, with 2 attacks and 2 rerolls.
Headhunters: Oh, and Stunties should add 'pygmies' to dwarves and halflings, in case someone wants to use them for Lustria.
New idea: what if, instead of pseudo-hatred against the race, what if taking a model of that race out of action causes the 'Ead'Unter to become frenzied? It makes them very powerful, but they hardly START the game unstoppable, and a clever opponent can use the skill to their advantage, building a screen to protect their best men.
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I like the idea of taking such a model out makes the 'ead'unter frenzied, that way the 'ead'unter will most possibly run straight after that type of model to double his attacks, it is a very very good idea IMO.
I still think there should be other options of gaining frenzy than just it being some form of animosity though, perhaps some shaman spells or something like that.
So to sum up what we've got:
Special Animosity.
0-1 Savage orc chieftain (perhaps needs a better name? Chieftain seems so generic.) I think he should be costed at 75gc less than the regular orc chieftain as he has no access to shooting skills and worse equipment.
0-2 'Ead'Unters regular orc statas +1ws frenzy if they kill their target race, should cost 45gc*
0-1 Shaman (I think shaman is a little generic, perhaps witch doctor or totem dancer instead?) regular orc stats, no academic skills sets this semi-wizard at 35-40gc. Has unique spells**
0-5 Madd Boyz/Crazed 'uns/Loony's I like the approach with it being two special rules, one good and one bad sets them at 35gc with regular orc stats?
0-X Savage Boys, Regular orc stats and worse equipment list than other orcs but option for frenzy sets them at 25gc.
0-X Forest goblins, can never become heroes, like good old goblins, cost 15gc (perhaps they should lose one point of leadership and be able to be sacrificed for a dose of madcap mushrooms?)
0-1 Savage Troll 200gc
M WS BS S T W I A LD
6 3 - 5 4 3 1 2 4 Weapons and armour: Fangs!
Frenzy.
Extremely stupid, even though being immune to psychology due to frenzy the savage troll still suffers from stupidity.
Regeneration, like the regular old troll boy.
Always hungry.
*Races chosen for 'Ead'Unters:
Stunties! Dey arnt so tuff!? - All dwarves/halflings/pygmies are included in this category!
'Umies! Dar be so many of 'em! - All humans are included in this category.
Pointy eeers! Why dey have so many bows, and why dey so fast?!? - All elves including dark elves are included in this category.
Creepiees! Argh they make meh skin crawl! - Skaven, Daemons, Undead, beastmen and mutants are included in this group.
**Witch Doctor spells:
Well I thought his spells should be focused around buffing his friends, I think like having a healing hand thrown in there, and three different frenzy spells, and an equavilent of black fury, the last spell could be anything but I'd prefer it being something like eye of god or that way of thinking.
- Points to notice: The savage troll has one attack more than the regular troll as long as it is frenzied, but it has no vomit attack.
- 'Ead'Unters are stronger than big'uns but have worse skills.
- The witch doctor is rather unique, but he is not solely a wizard nor just a fighter, he can do a bit of both.
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Shooting skills: Oh, the Chieftain (or whatever) has access to shooting skills... I was opposed to the 'Ead'Hunters from having shooting, not all of the savages. Sure, if several promoted henchmen choose Shooting skills, you could potentially have several shooters with bows and javelins.
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Almost ready to post it (and to be honest, I think it looks neat).
Although I don't think we need a whole new spell list. I like the idea of the old orc list, plus a single 'default' spell that the shaman can learn. 'Spell #0", you know.
New skill list:
’ard ead- The warrior has a thick skull even for an Orc. He has a special 3+ save on a D6 to avoid being stunned. If the save is made, treat a stunned result as knocked down instead. If the Orc also wears a helmet, this save is 2+ instead of 3+ (this takes the place of the normal helmet special rule).
Raw-waaagh!- Orcs are aggressive creatures and some are experts at bulldozing charges. The warrior may add +D3" to his charge range. Also, if the Orc is wearing Bone Armor, he ignores all movement penalties for the bone armor while he is on foot (as opposed to mounted). (moved the 'bone armor' bonus from the 'well ard' skill, to make the terrible 'waagh' skill better, and to spread the armor skills around.)
well ’ard- The Orc has a thick, dark-green skin, possibly indicating Black Orc blood. Such is the toughness of the Orc that he may add +1 to any armour saves.
’eadbasher Orcs- have massive physical strength and some of them even learn to aim their blows at the heads of their opponents, with obvious results. Any knocked down results which the Orc causes in hand-to-hand count as stunned results instead.
New- Blood-firsty- ‘Ead’Unters & Mad Boyz only. The hero now becomes Frenzied on a Boiling Blood roll of 5 or 6 instead of just 6. This skill may be taken twice per hero, granting the hero Frenzy on a Boiling Blood roll of 4, 5 or 6 instead of just 6. The skill cannot be taken more than twice.
Changed- Bushwhacker- Whenever your hero moves into a tree or forest terrain piece, you may have the Orc take a Strength test: if he passes, he may move through the piece without movement penalty. This skill represents the warrior pushing through vines and bending whole tree trunks, so he may move through solid forest-based terrain that would normally have to be circumvented (ex. a standing tree trunk.) If he is moving through such solid object, he must end his move free of the object (ex. not ending his move halfway through a 3" solid log). This may not allow a hero to move out of the alloted area of the scenario.
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tried to post this at the start of the thread, but wouldn't let me. (too many characters.) So, I'm breaking it up here.
SAVAGE ORC WARBAND
Based on ‘Da Mob’ Warband by Mark Havener.
Additional inspiration from the Forest Goblin warband by the iCircle Lustria Team
Special Rules
Old Ways- Savage Orcs are rooted fully in their savage ways, and ancient superstitions. They will only use bows (short bows, bows, long bows, elf bows), and thrown weapons (javelins, bolas, nets, throwing knives, etc). They will never use any Blackpowder weapons, nor any type of crossbow. Likewise, they will not use any armor except the types of armor they have listed on their Equipment list (the exception being any Magical Artifact armor, which is allowed.)
Boilin’ Blood: Savage Orcs love fighting even more than normal Orcs, but unfortunately they’re not always very discerning about whom they scrap with! They are even likely to put themselves into a frenzied rage, sending them blindly charging at the enemy. To represent this, at the start of the Orc player’s turn, roll a D6 for each Hero and Henchman who is either an Orc or a Goblin. Do not roll for models that are in hand to hand combat or are frenzied at the start of the turn.
1 – Animosity - The warrior has taken offense to something one of his mates has done or said. To find out just how offended the model is, roll another D6 and consult the following chart to see what happens. Ignore this result in the case of Heroes.
~~~1 “I ’Erd Dat!†The warrior decides that the nearest friendly Orc or Goblin Henchman has insulted his lineage or personal hygiene and must pay the price! If there is a friendly Orc or Goblin Henchman or Hired Sword within charge reach (if there are multiple targets within reach, choose the one nearest to the mad model), the offended warrior will immediately charge and fight a round of hand-to-hand combat against the source of his ire. At the end of this round of combat, the models will immediately move 1" apart and no longer count as being in close combat (unless one of them fails another Animosity test and rolls this result again). If there are no friendly Orc or Goblin Henchmen or Hired Swords within charge reach, and the warrior is armed with a missile weapon, he immediately takes a shot at the nearest friendly Orc or Goblin Henchman or Hired Sword. If none of the above applies, or if the nearest friendly model is an Orc Hero, the warrior behaves as if a 2-5 had been rolled on this chart. In any case, the warrior in question may take no other action this turn, though he may defend himself if attacked in hand-to-hand combat.
~~~2-5 “Wud Yoo Say?†The warrior is fairly certain he heard an offensive sound from the nearest friendly Orc or Goblin, but he’s not quite sure. He spends the turn hurling insults at his mate. He may do nothing else this turn, though he may defend himself if attacked in hand-to-hand combat.
~~~6. “I’ll Show Yer!†The warrior imagines that his mates are laughing about him behind his back and calling him silly names. To show them up he decides that he’ll be the first one to the scrap! This model must move as quickly as possible towards the nearest enemy model, charging into combat if possible. If there are no enemy models within sight, the Orc or Forest Goblin may make a normal move immediately. This move is in addition to his regular move in the Movement phase, so he may therefore move twice in a single turn if you wish. If the extra move takes the Orc or Forest Goblin within charge reach of an enemy model, the warrior must charge into close combat during his regular movement.
2-5 – Clear ‘Ead: The Greenskin acts normal for this turn (or as normal as a Greenskin gets.)
6 – Frenzied!: Greenskin is frenzied until the end of the turn. It must charge this turn if it is within charge range. If not, the warrior must move as quickly as possible to the nearest enemy model, which counts as their move for this turn. If this causes the warrior to run, it may not shoot missiles this turn, but may cast spells as normal. The Frenzy only lasts until the end of your turn.
Distasteful Company. Many Hired Swords refuse to work for Orcs, as they know that Orcs are just as likely to eat them as fight alongside them (ESPECIALLY Savage Orcs). Orcs may only hire the following Hired Swords: Pit Fighters, Ogre Bodyguards or Warlocks. They may also hire any Orc, Goblin, or Hobgoblin Hired Swords.
Choice of warriors
A Savage Orc warband must include a minimum of three models. You have 500 gold crowns that you can use to recruit and equip your warband. The maximum number of warriors in the warband is 20.
Chieftain: Each Savage Orc warband must have one Chieftain: no more, no less!
Shaman: Your warband may include up to one Shaman.
‘Ead’unters: Your warband may include up to two ‘Ead’unters.
Savage Boyz: Your warband may include any number of Savage Boyz.
Forest Goblins: Your warband may include any number of Forest Goblins, though it may not have more than two Goblins for each Orc in the warband (including Orc Heroes).
Crazed ‘Uns: Your warband may include up to five Crazed ‘Uns.
Feral Troll: Your warband may include up to one Feral Troll.
Starting experience
A Chieftain starts with 20 Experience.
A Shaman starts with 10 Experience.
‘Ead’unters start with 8 Experience.
All Henchmen start with 0 Experience.
Orc equipment lists
The following lists are used by Orc warbands to pick their equipment.
Orc Equipment list
Hand-to-hand combat weapons
Dagger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1st free/2 gc
Club. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 gc
Battle axe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Sword . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Spear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Halberd . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Morning star . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Double-handed weapon . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Missile weapons
Throwing Axes. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Javelins. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Bolas. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Bow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc *
Longbow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc*
*Not ‘Ead’Unters or Crazed ‘Uns
Armor
Light Armor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 gc
Bone Armor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 gc
Shield . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Helmet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Tattoos. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Miscellaneous
Warpaint. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Forest Goblin equipment list
Hand-to-hand combat weapons
Dagger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1st free/2 gc
Club . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 gc
Sword . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Spear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Missile weapons
Short bow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Javelins . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Blowpipe. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Armour
Shield . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Helmet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Tattoos. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Miscellaneous#
Net. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
#May be purchased by Forest Goblins, despite being Henchmen
SKILLS
CHIEFTAIN Combat, Shooting, Strength, Speed, Special
SHAMAN Strength, Special
‘EAD’UNTERS Combat, Strength, Speed, Special
HEROES
1 Orc Chieftain
80 gold crowns to hire
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 4 4 4 4 1 3 1 8
Weapons/Armour: An Orc Chieftain may be equipped with weapons and armour chosen from the Orc equipment list.
SPECIAL RULES
Leader: Any warrior within 6" of the Orc Chieftain may use his Leadership characteristic when taking Leadership tests.
Boilin’ Blood: See Rules above.
0-1 Orc Shaman
40 gold crowns to hire
Orc Shamans are outcasts from Orc society. They are gifted by the Orc gods Gork and Mork with powers they can neither understand nor completely control. Many join roaming Orc warbands where they are no longer shunned for their abilities, but respected for them.
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 3 3 3 4 1 3 1 7
Weapons/Armour: An Orc Shaman may be armed with weapons chosen from the Orc equipment list. An Orc Shaman may never wear armour (but may have tattoos).
SPECIAL RULES
Wizard: An Orc Shaman is a wizard and uses Waaagh! Magic. See the DaMob Warband for rules.
Boilin’ Blood: See Rules above.
0-2 Orc ‘Ead’unters
40 gold crowns to hire
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 4 3 3 4 1 3 1 7
Weapons/Armour: ‘Ead’Unters may be equipped with weapons and armour chosen from the Orc equipment list.
SPECIAL RULES
Boilin’ Blood: See Rules above.
Marked for the Hunt: ‘Ead’Unters, start with a certain aversion to a set race (or, ‘races’ as Savage Orcs divide them.) Perhaps they hate the set race, enjoy the challenge, or, most likely, most enjoy the taste. Pick a race upon purchase, which may not be changed for any reason. In a single Savage Orc warband, no two ‘Ead’Unters will have the same mark on the same ‘race’. If a Savage Orc takes a model of that ‘race’ out of action, it will become Frenzied. If the ‘Ead’Unter ever loses frenzy (ex. knocked down or stunned), it may regain it by taking another member of that race out of action. The ‘races’ are as follows:
‘Uman Beans: All humans (this includes Chaotic Humans, like Marauders & Brethren.)
Stunties: Humanoids of a smaller size. This includes Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves, Halflings, & Pygmies.
Pointee Eers: All Elves, including High Elves, Dark Elves, & Forest Elves (and Shadow Elves, of course).
Beastees: All Skaven, Beastmen, and Lizardmen.
Creepees: All Undead (including Ghouls), Mutants, and Demons.
Orcks ‘n’ Gobbos: The misguided ‘Ead’Unter despises all Greenskins of rival tribes (orcs, goblins, gnoblars, hobgoblins, snotlings, etc.) He will NOT become frenzied if he takes a member of his own warband out of action.
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HENCHMEN
Savage Boyz
25 gold crowns to hire
Savage Boyz are savage and tough. They fear nothing that they can get their bare hands on, though they are even more ignorant and superstitious than most other beings in the Warhammer world. They form the core of any Orc warband.
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 3 3 3 4 1 2 1 7
Weapons/Armour: Boyz may be equipped with weapons and armour chosen from the Orc equipment list.
SPECIAL RULES
Boilin’ Blood: See Rules above.
0-5 Crazed ‘Uns
35 gold crowns to hire
flavor!
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 4 3 3 4 1 2 1 7
Weapons/Armour: Boyz may be equipped with hand to hand weapons and armour chosen from the Orc equipment list.
SPECIAL RULES
Boilin’ Blood: See Rules above.
Deadly Charge: Whenever 'Crazed Boyz' charge, they receive an additional attack for the first round of combat. If the Crazed Boy is frenzied, this extra attack is not doubled.
Crazed: If the Crazed Boy starts the turn within charge range of an opponent, he automatically charges. Ignore all Psychology tests that would prevent you from charging (ex. Fear.) If there are multiple models within charge range, he may choose which target to charge. Measure for the Crazed involuntary charge after rolling for ‘Boilin’ Blood’ results (meaning, a Crazed Un that rolls ‘Frenzied’ on his ‘Boilin’ Blood’ roll will charge because of the frenzied result first, and will get double attacks. Likewise, a Crazed model that rolls an Animosity result, causing him to charge his friend, will not charge an enemy in charge range, because he is too busy fighting a fellow warband member. ‘Crazed’ charge does not overpower a Boiling Blood roll.)
0-5 Forest Goblins
15 gold crowns to hire
Goblins are often used as cannon fodder (as well as a food source in lean times!) by their larger Orc cousins. They are usually not as well equipped as Savage Boyz, having to make do with whatever the Orcs do not want or cannot use.
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 2 3 3 3 1 3 1 5
Weapons/Armour: Goblins may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from Goblin equipment list.
SPECIAL RULES
Natives. Used to poking through the underbrush, Forest Goblins suffer no movement penalties from moving through jungle or forest terrain.
Boilin’ Blood: See Rules above.
Note: A Forest Goblin who rolls ‘Animosity’ on his Boilin’ Blood test and rolls a 1 for the result will never charge an Orc Henchman, though he will still use any missile weapons to attack as normal. Goblins are far too afraid of Orcs to challenge them individually.
Not Orcs: Orcs don’t expect much from non-Orcs, and are therefore not unsettled if Goblins break or get cut down in battle. In fact, they expect as much from these weaklings! Therefore, when testing to see if a Savage Orc Warband needs to take a Rout test, each Forest Goblin taken out of action only counts as half a model. Therefore, a band of 5 Orcs and 10 Goblins (15 models) would only have to take a test if 4 models fell (4 Orcs or 8 Goblins, or some combination thereof ).
Runts: Goblins may gain experience but if they happen to roll ‘That Lad’s got talent’ they are immediately killed by their Orc overlords for becoming too ‘mouthy’ (remove the Gobbo from the roster).
0-1 Feral Troll
200 gold crowns to hire
Trolls in the wild are dangerous creatures for sure, eating everything in sight at a leisurely pace. Once a troll has been taken in by an orc or goblin master, however, the pickings become lush, and the monster gets used to a diet of fresh meat, fed at constant rates. Whenever one of these spoiled trolls is let lose again into the wild, it takes many years for the troll’s massive hunger to subside. Till then, the only greenskins brave enough (or dumb enough) to take in one of these feral trolls are the Savage Orcs, who admire its frenzied state.
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 3 1 5 4 3 1 2 4
Weapons/Armour: Trolls do not require weapons to fight but often carry a big club. In any event, Trolls can never be given weapons or armour.
SPECIAL RULES
Fear: Trolls are frightening monsters which cause fear.
Frenzy: Feral Trolls start the game Frenzied.
Dangerously Stupid:
Feral Trolls are very stupid; so stupid, in fact, that they test for Stupidity even while frenzied (an exception to the rule that a frenzied model is immune to psychology). During the movement phase, after declaring voluntary charges, but before moving involuntary charges, take a Leadership test of the Feral Troll (it may use the Ld of a Leader within range.) If passed, the Feral Troll moves as normal for the rest of the turn (and, if currently frenzied, may declare involuntary charges like a normal frenzied model.) If the test is failed, roll 1D6, and consult the chart below:
1-3 Drool - The Troll does nothing but drool this turn, and will not fight. If within Charge range of an enemy model, it will not and may not charge, even if it is frenzied.
4-5 Shamble – If the troll is not in combat, it will move half speed directly forward. If this brings them into contact with an Enemy, it counts as a charge. It will only attack with one attack this turn, which is not doubled if the troll is frenzied. It this would send it into an ally, it will likewise attack the model with a single attack. If the ally is not engaged with enemy models, he is forced to fight back. At the start of your next turn, move the troll and the ally 1" apart. The troll moves again as normal (assuming he passes his Stupidity test again!)
6 Run Amok - If the Troll is in combat, the Troll fights back as normal. If not in combat, it will travel 3D6 inches in a random direction. If this does not take it into another model, it will end its turn on the spot. If the random movement takes into contact with an opponent, it will attack as normal (count it as an involuntary charge) and, if currently frenzied, will have double attacks. If the random move takes it into contact with an ally, it will likewise attack the model, doubling attacks if frenzied. If the assaulted ally is not engaged with enemy models, he is forced to fight back. At the start of your next turn, move the troll and the ally 1" apart. The troll moves again as normal (assuming he passes his Stupidity test again!)
Regeneration: Trolls have unique physiologies that allow them to regenerate wounds. Whenever an enemy successfully inflicts a wound on a Troll roll a D6, on a result of 4 or more the wound is ignored and the Troll is unhurt. Trolls may not regenerate wounds caused by fire or fire-based magic. Trolls never roll for Injury after a battle.
Dumb Monster: A Troll is far too stupid to ever learn any new skills. Trolls do not gain experience.
Always Hungry: A Troll requires an upkeep cost. This upkeep represents the copious amounts of food that must be fed to the Troll in order to keep him loyal to the warband. The warband must pay 15 gold crowns after every game in order to keep the Troll. If the warband lacks the gold to pay the upkeep, the Chieftain has the option of sacrificing two Forest Goblins to the Troll in lieu of buying food (Trolls eat nearly anything). If this fee is not paid (either in gold or in warband members) the Troll gets hungry and wanders off in search of food.
SPECIAL EQUIPMENT
Throwing Axes – See the ‘Athel Loren- New Equipment’ Section for more details.
Tattoos - See the ‘Athel Loren- New Equipment’ Section for more details.
Warpaint - See the ‘Athel Loren- New Equipment’ Section for more details.
Bone Armor – 25gc Common
Bone Armor is crudely made armor, using the bones of trolls, ogres, and various other mammoth creatures. It is more cumbersome than iron, but definitely provides ample protection.
An Orc wearing Bone Armor receives a 5+ armor save (as if wearing heavy armor), but receives a -1 Movement penalty. If may be used with a shield, but receives an additional -1 movement, for a total of -2 Movement. If mounted, the movement penalty is passed on to the mount. Bone Armor may not be used with Tattoos, but it may be used with Warpaint (this is an exception to the normal warpaint rules.)
Orc special skills
Orc Heroes may use the following Skill list instead of any of the standard Skill lists available to them.
’ard ead- The warrior has a thick skull even for an Orc. He has a special 3+ save on a D6 to avoid being stunned. If the save is made, treat a stunned result as knocked down instead. If the Orc also wears a helmet, this save is 2+ instead of 3+ (this takes the place of the normal helmet special rule).
Raw-waaagh!- Orcs are aggressive creatures and some are experts at bulldozing charges. The warrior may add +D3" to his charge range. Also, if the Orc is wearing Bone Armor, he ignores all movement penalties for the bone armor while he is on foot (as opposed to mounted).
well ’ard- The Orc has a thick, dark-green skin, possibly indicating Black Orc blood. Such is the toughness of the Orc that he may add +1 to any armour saves.
’eadbasher Orcs- have massive physical strength and some of them even learn to aim their blows at the heads of their opponents, with obvious results. Any knocked down results which the Orc causes in hand-to-hand count as stunned results instead.
Blood-firsty- ‘Ead’Unters & Mad Boyz only. The hero now becomes Frenzied on a Boiling Blood roll of 5 or 6 instead of just 6. This skill may be taken twice per hero, granting the hero Frenzy on a Boiling Blood roll of 4, 5 or 6 instead of just 6. The skill cannot be taken more than twice.
Bushwhacker- Whenever your hero moves into a tree or forest terrain piece, you may have the Orc take a Strength test: if he passes, he may move through the piece without movement penalty. This skill represents the warrior pushing through vines and bending whole tree trunks, so he may move through solid forest-based terrain that would normally have to be circumvented (ex. a standing tree trunk.) If he is moving through such solid object, he must end his move free of the object.
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Oh, two new ideas since posting:
0 - Shaman Spell- A simple move 12" spell. Fits the style very easily. If we want to make it more useful (and chaotic), it can be fired on a friendly model, but causes a S3 hit to go with it (a not so gentle means of transportation!) Cannot be cast on Large Models.
New Item for Athel Loren:
Shrunken Head! - Savage Orcs & Forest Goblins only (Beastmen too?)
Cost - 10gc, Rare 6
Grants the Shaman +1 to All Spell Difficulty rolls (except for a natural roll of 2). In the even that your shaman rolls a natural 2, roll on the chart below:
2D6 Result
2 Aaarrgh! The powers of Chaos take over the helpless wizard as he horribly mutates to a Spawn of Chaos. Remove the wizard from your roster.
3 Gglbddlh: The wizard is now stupid. Roll a D6 after the battle: on a score of 2+ the effect ends.
4 Magical Shutdown: The wizard cannot cast any spells for the duration of this battle.
5-6 Uh-oh! The spell has been cast successfully- upon the wizard himself! Any additional decisions (e.g. with Flight of Zimmeran from the Lesser Magic) are made by the wizards left player.
7 Pooh, nothing at all! Except for the spells failure there are no further consequences.
8-9 Magical Explosion: The wizard is thrown D6" in a random direction and then lands knocked down.
10-11 Magical jam: The wizard cannot cast a spell in his next shooting phase. Missile weapons may be used as normal, of course.
12 Wait, what's that? The uncontrollable powers of Chaos cause the wizard to mutate. After a moment of horror the transmutation ends. You may choose a free Mutation for the wizard chosen from the Possessed's Mutations chart (Mordheim Rulebook page 76).
(Thanks to Brahm for the chart... although it shows up in BTB too, so maybe the credit is due somewhere else...)
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This is a great looking warband! Just read it for the first time, and thought I might toss in my 0.02 on a couple of things real quick (sorry, seems like you guys had it pretty much set the way you wanted :'()
'Ead 'Unters: What about adding one more "hunted" race, Big 'Uns? This would not refer to the ork & goblin Big 'Uns, but rather any unit that is a Large Target other than cavalry.
Also, just my humble opinion, and I know there was plenty of talk about this one, but personally I think a normal troll would be sufficient, and in some ways make even more sense, even though it is a bit "vanilla". To me trolls in the Warhammer World just don't get sophisticated enough to reach societal distinctions like "feral" because, really, they're all feral and fairly stupid. However, I do think the rules for the Feral Troll look very balanced.
EDIT: I looked, but couldn't find where the rules on Warpaint, Tattoos, and Throwing Axes are located.
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Big 'Un Target: I like.
Troll: Personally, I happen to think that a vanilla would be fine (or a slight variation, like a River Troll). Master insisted on it *shamelessly passing the blame*. But if the greatest complaint is the 'feral' name, that's no problem... we just need to find another title for it.
Items: Oops. We had them on the Tom's Boring site, and I guess we didn't tranfer them over. Here's the nutshell version:
Tattoos - 20gc
Provides 6+ ward save. Cannot be used with armor (except bucklers & helms), cannot be removed. May be worn by spellcasters and models that will not wear armor (Slayers, Wardancers, etc.)
Warpaint - 15gc?
The hero causes fear this game, and is thus immune to fear as well. One use only.
Throwing Axes -15gc
Same as Throwing Knives, except instead of a Knife Thrower skill, there's an 'Axe Thrower Skill' - may throw 2 axes at +1 Strength.
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Troll: Personally, I happen to think that a vanilla would be fine (or a slight variation, like a River Troll). Master insisted on it *shamelessly passing the blame*. But if the greatest complaint is the 'feral' name, that's no problem... we just need to find another title for it.
It's not the name, so much as the notion that there are varying degrees of savagery and civility amongst trolls. However, it's not like a sticking point for me on the warband or anything, just something that popped into my mind.
Items: Oops. We had them on the Tom's Boring site, and I guess we didn't tranfer them over. Here's the nutshell version:
Tattoos - 20gc
Provides 6+ ward save. Cannot be used with armor (except bucklers & helms), cannot be removed. May be worn by spellcasters and models that will not wear armor (Slayers, Wardancers, etc.)
Warpaint - 15gc?
The hero causes fear this game, and is thus immune to fear as well. One use only.
Throwing Axes -15gc
Same as Throwing Knives, except instead of a Knife Thrower skill, there's an 'Axe Thrower Skill' - may throw 2 axes at +1 Strength.
They look good. Didn't the Beast Hunter Hired Sword have Throwing Axes, as well? I thought he did but couldn't remember if there was anything special about them. The others look good, initially I thought Warpaint was a bit cheap, but after a second look since it only lasts for the duration of a single battle I don't think it would be worthwhile if it cost any more.
One other idea that struck me as potentially interesting would be to add that Tattoos confer some kind of magic resistance, maybe a 6+ dispell or 2 dice saving throw that has to beat the caster's roll or something like that.
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Magic Dispell Tatts: Possibly a Special kind of tattoos, that can be stacked onto the existing ones (but purchased separately). At the moment, the goal of Master and I is to make the Tattoos as close to the real tattoos (6+ ward) and still be at tempting-but-affordable price (given the laughable prices of Mord armor.) I think the Toughened Leather's route of "can't stack with nuffin!" is the best so far, though additional tattoos make sense too.
One item I'm DEFINITELY bringing from 'Relics' is the 'Magic Tattoos': they cost 200gc+D6x25gc, but grant one spell from the Lesser Magic List (can learn other lists, but raises rarity from 11 to 13.) A tome of magic in the savage woods? BAH! Get yourself magical tattoos!
EDIT:
As far as throwing axes, I've had THAT discussion on two or three boards over the last few years. The only semi-official uses of the Throwing Axe is the Beasthunter (+1 Strength) and the Norse (same as throwing knives... they have no access to shooting skills, so no idea how it'd react with 'knife thrower'.) When I wrote the Slayers Cult Warband, I tried the two-at-a-time axe thrower skill- originally, it was "two throws, at -1 to save." But numerically, three knives at base strength cause more average 'wounds' per turn than two at +1 strength, so I think it's worth a shot (although, my number crunching could be wrong... it's hard to factor in crits). And like the Norse, a Throwing Axe without a skill is the exact same as a throwing knife.
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First, let me apologize for having been away all this time, I haven't even got to play any Mordheim games for 2 months and haven't got visit the forums either.
The main reasons have been that I've moved into my own apartment (yay!) and I've decided to paint my skaven army (250 skaven, all awaiting painting... Gulp.) So I couldn't find the time for the forums besides my studies.
Anyway I should be back for a while now!
Magic dispel Tattoos:
It's a great idea similar to the way they work in WHFB so I like it, however, I don't think we should put anything else on these tattoos, perhaps we could instead add different kinds of tattoos?
Some tattoos that dispel hostile spells on 5+. and some that give a 6+ special save, and some that give an extra spell.
Feral Troll: Yeah, I'm insisting rather much on this, I know that it sounds weird with some trolls more or less intelligent, however, my idea was that we should have something different, something that haven't been seen before which really makes it seem like it sticks with the band.
I like the skills especially blood-firsty, even though I doubt many people will be giving it to their 'ead'unters the crazed'uns would surely benefit.
Big'un target group! It's a great idea and I think we could incorporate it, however to avoid confusion maybe it should be named something else?
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Glad to see ya back... it's been pretty dead here without you.
Warding Tats- got it!
Trolls: We'll play with the name. Maybe it's a new subspecies of troll of something, or maybe the Savage Orcs taunt and starve them into new ferocity.
Big'Uns- sure thing. Maybe 'Ji-ants'?
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Well, It is good to be back ;D.
Hah! Ji-ants! That's a wonderful idea!
Sure thing, on the troll, I would really like this to have a special feel.
So what should we name the different tattoos?
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Well, why don't we make it a Campaign Equipment item, so everyone can buy / find it?
Names: When in doubt, keep it simple-
Tattoos - The normal kind, with 6+ save
Magic Tattoos - The Spell tattoos (a lame name, but that's what the Relics people called them, so no sense confusing people more.) Will grant a Lesser Magic spell, but for a +2 higher rarity roll, can be warband specific (ex. their own warband spell list OR based on alignment: good warbands can learn sigmar/lady prayers, taal, wood elf; evil warbands can learn Necromancy, Chaos Rituals, Dark Elf, or Blessings of Nurgle).
Warding Tattoos - The Dispel tattoos. What should they do, exactly? I'm thinking it grants a 4+ 'ignores the effects of an enemy spell that affects the tattooed individual' .On a natural roll of 6, the spell is COMPLETELY dispelled (otherwise, affects other models as normal. Cannot dispel spells that do not affect the warded model in any way.) Has no effect on Prayers. How's 100gc, Rare 10?