Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: Trickstick on June 23, 2011, 05:27:00 PM
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Hi all. I have just started to get into BFG, it looks really fun and I love naval combat games. I just wanted to throw out a list and ask for some advice.
Apocalypse Class Battleship,
2x Dictator Class Cruisers w/ power ram,
2x Lunar Class Cruisers w/ nova cannon,
3x Sword Class Escorts,
3x Sword Class Escorts.
Fleet-Admiral,
Reroll.
1500 pts.
I like the look of the Apocalypse. I know it may not be the best battleship but it seems to fit my idea of getting up in their face. The nova cannons are so that the enemy can't just sit back and play cat and mouse with me, I am hoping that it will force them to close.
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Yes not bad. But Dictators with power ram? Should they get to the frontline with support from the swords?
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It was more that I had 10 points spare. They could be useful if I fail to reload or something.
I am slightly worried that putting novas on the Lunars cuts my torpedoes down too much. I was thinking that without needing to reload they can lock on or move more.
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ditch some swords to upgrade your lunars to armageddons BCs
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Well I am using the bastion fleet list, so I need 2 cruisers per battlecruiser. So I can't take two armageddons without four cruisers.
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your ship choices can be had in the Armageddon Fleet list, which allows 1 battle cruiser per cruiser
thing is you are short on batteries at 45cm. usually doesn't matter till you face eldar.
not sure the nova cannon will be enough for that.
btw, the armageddon bc can take an nova cannon for 20 pts.
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It was more that I had 10 points spare. They could be useful if I fail to reload or something.
I am slightly worried that putting novas on the Lunars cuts my torpedoes down too much. I was thinking that without needing to reload they can lock on or move more.
If you fail to reload you won't be ramming. From my experience torps > NC. Also, you can AAF your cruisers to get into shotgun range without reducing your torpedo strength. The Dictators can either provide fighter cover to clear CAP or, if you get within 20cm, support the torpedo assault with bombers. Of course, this presupposes you haven't already launched.
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I hadn't seen that you need to do AAF to ram, so that tactic is out.
I am now thinking that the nova cannons could be a waste if my plan is to get in their face. The one on the slower battleship may be enough to offer some long range support. So now I am thinking this bastion fleet:
Apocalypse,
2x Dictator,
2x Lunar,
3x Sword,
3x Sword,
Fleet Admiral,
Reroll,
Veteran Captain.
The veteran can go on a dictator to help keep the ordnance flying as I close. Are veteran captains a waste of points? I couldn't think of another way to spend them.
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I've never understood the power ram thing... is that purely cosmetic (i.e. there isn't a nova cannon in front) or is there a mechanical benefit?
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Power Rams are 5pts each, and do an automatic hit when ramming in addition to any other damage caused, the equivalent of between an extra 3 and 6 dice against most targets
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trick, cudos to you for taking battlefleet cadia... it's not the easiest fleet to play!
I looked at your fleet. It's pretty damn solid, and a veteran capitan on your dictators is a good idea, assuming your going to squadron them.
Power rams are very useful, I cannot express how many times a ramming action has changed the course of a game, though usually it's the result of the enemy being overconfident, and not expecting 180+ points of angry cruiser slamming into their face.
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If he is planning on squadroning the dictators, why bother with the veteran captain? Just put the admiral on one of them and you'll end up with LD9 most of the time with the enemy on SO. Seriously, 50 points is rather excessive for the +1 ld. Even Chaos pays half that for the same thing. Use the points on NC, then you'll have three instead of one which is a good number in a 1500 point fleet.
Or just drop the vet captain use the armageddon list and fiddle with the escorts to take armageddon CBs instead of lunars.
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Yeah, I'm with Vaaish, just use the Armageddon list and swap the Lunars for Armageddons. At 235 pts they're now worth taking (barely). The vet captains may be a reasonable idea but they just cost so much.
I personally prefer torps to NC but if you're going to go that route then 3 is a good number. I wouldn't do that here though, since I'd not put the Apocalypse prow on.
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I reread the Cadia rules, I completely missed the "pick lowest of two" leadership rule. Now I see why you said it isn't an easy fleet.
I don't fancy battlefleet armageddon. The extra battlecruisers sound nice but I really want to take swords as escorts, as they can stay abeam. However, I don't fancy taking marines and swords have to be RSVs.
Would the extra NCs really help with my ranged attacks. They do seem pretty random. However, I'm a Guard player at heart, so strong yet inaccurate blasts is kind of my thing. I'm just concerned that I won't have enough torpedoes to obliterate things up close. It would mean that the lunars don't need to reload, although all of my ordnance would be on two ships.
I can't actually decide if I want the Apocalypse. I looks like a nice model but seems to lack range for a battleship. The Retribution looks nice, although not very powerful. The Emperor seems to be what most people take, although I would probably have to drop the dictators. Those points could go on a battlecruiser upgrade.
So many decisions. This makes thinking about 40k lists seem easy, and there are only 5 capital ships to think about.
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Look at battle fleet bakka
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Well, RSV swords are still just swords. The only difference is you can't squadron them with IN ships (but hey, WHAT would you squadron them with anyway?) and they don't die as easily to assault boats... all for 5 points more. Call them veteran escort squadrons if you like but they are the least marine of any marine option and might just as well be IN.
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Ok, so I have changed it around a bit.
Apocalypse,
2x Dictator,
2x Lunar w/ Nova,
3x Sword,
3x Cobra,
Fleet Admiral,
Reroll.
The Cobras can worry the enemy with some long range topedoes while the fleet closes, firing nova cannons to do some damage or disrupt the enemy. At close range to dictators will unload, along with the apocalypse's lances. I took the cobras so that I could squeeze a reroll in there. I played an intro game today and failed my first order in a turn, not fun.
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looks good
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Yeah, looks good, reasonable choices. One note however is that the IN admiral comes with 1 re-roll for free, so if you buy one you've actually got 2. Just in case you didn't notice. Also, if you plan to close with the Apocalypse firing the NC on the way in instead of going abeam to fire the broadsides you might run into a couple of problems. Firstly, your opponent will be able slow your already slow BB by simply shooting at it, which might lead to a split fleet (allowing your opponent to deal with your escorts and cruisers before having to worry about the BB). Of course, you could keep your cruisers moving slowly to keep pace, firing your NCs, but you'll most likely need to release AC to cover your ships and so you won't be holding them to release up close, and the AAF shotgun torps/bombers tac is right out. Just some things to be aware of.
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So I have been pondering on this list for a bit and have come to the conclusion that I am sacrificing too many torpedoes. I was also worried about having Lunars with NCs, as I felt that it split the roll of the ship too much. So I wrote this:
Apocalypse
Mars
Dictator
2x Lunar
3x Sword
3x Sword
Fleet Admiral
Extra Reroll
The Apocalypse and Mars can advance slowly behind the main line, supporting the fleet with their longer range. The other cruisers can form a line of advance, whilst the swords cover the gaps. Having the Dictator up front and the Mars behind will stop all of my carriers from being a huge target. The Mars also gives me a good flagship for small games.
My main concerns with this fleet are:
1. The Dictator's and Mars' batteries are pretty rubbish without partners.
2. The Apocalypse is hard to turn when under fire, and if it gets a thruster critical and a blast marker it counts as defences. I suppose AAF would help in this rare case.
3. The lunars would be pretty bad if one dies.
Edit: If I buy a Retribution does it come with three complete weapon sprues? I like the weird eagle on top and am not fond of the Apocalypse's prow. Is it an easy case of building what I want or will I need bits from some cruiser sets (other than the nova and some green stuff).
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It does have 3 full weapon sprues if I remember correctly. So does the apocalypse.
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1. nothing prevents you from squadroning the mars and dictator, but you're probably not going to notice the batteries since both focus on different means of attack. The dictator tries to strike simultaneously with both torps and AC and the Mars likes to hang back with the NC and lances.
2. This is a problem with most IN battleships. If you plan your attack vector well you shouldn't even need to turn the ship in those situations.
3. You could say this of practically any combination in the IN. It's really not a fair comparison.
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1. the batteries are defensive in nature for the dictator and the mars. in that regard the mars' range would be helpful against eldar.
2. look at the Victory BB?
3. as Vaaish said, if you squadron to increase effectiveness, you lose effectiveness when the squadron mate is lost.