Specialist Arms Forum

Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Experimental Rules Feedback => Topic started by: Trickstick on October 02, 2011, 11:59:29 PM

Title: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: Trickstick on October 02, 2011, 11:59:29 PM
So I have been working on the model for the new flagship for Battlefleet Halcyon and thought I would throw the rules in a post. This ship was made after my repeated frustrations at facing the chaos planet killer. While it is not meant to be a direct competitor, it can take plenty of fire and keep going.

I have used the Smotherman Formula (http://yenlowang.free.fr/BFG/smotherman_formula_v205.pdf) to give me a basic points cost to work from, although I have added a bit.

So, the stats:

AttributeValuePoints Cost
Hits1470
Shields440
Turrets525
Armour6+/5+42.5
Speed15cm3
Turns45°---

The weapons:

ArmamentRange/SpeedFirepower/StrengthFire ArcPoints
Port Launch BaysFuries: 30cm
Starhawks: 20cm
Sharks: 30cm		4 Squadrons---54
Starboard Launch BaysFuries: 30cm
Starhawks: 20cm
Sharks: 30cm		4 Squadrons---54
Port Weapons Battery60cm6L27
Starboard Weapons Battery60cm6R27
Dorsal Lance Battery60cm4L/F/R52
Prow TorpedoesSpeed 30cm9Front31.5
Plasma Devastator30-150cmD3 Nova Cannon ShotsF75

Notes: The Exalted Subjugation is a slow and ponderous vessel and cannot use Come to a New Heading special orders. For an extra +5 points the Exalted Subjugation may carry squadrons of shark assault boats. If the dice roll for the Plasma devestator is a six (using the old 5/6 = 3 shots), then the ship suffers a thruster critical, without the +1 damage. The weapon still fires that turn as normal.

Formula cost: 501
Adjusted cost: 540

I priced the d3 nova cannon shots as 2 nova cannons but added the extra rule to stop them being too good.

Terrible or not?
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on October 03, 2011, 03:39:49 AM
I'd like three please :D. Seriously tho the price sounds about right. On the D3 nova cannon shots is this "roll a D3 and perform this many nova cannon attacks." Or is it "place the nova cannon template over the target and roll the scatter die. On a hit roll D3 D6 for damage (1-18). On a miss scatter in that direction per the rules for nova cannon and apply D3 D6 to any ships under the center of the template."

I think option 1 sounds the best here.

You might also try playing it as a straight 5+ armor and bringing the points cost down. Put it at 505 with the same restrictions as the pk. On a side note what kind of problems are you having? I've never had a problem keeping out of its direct front and other than the armageddon gun its a basic bb. Oh and where's the back story? I love the ship and I'm seeing lots of ideas, but I'd like to know why the empire built this :D.
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: Trickstick on October 03, 2011, 03:58:02 AM
It is d3 separate nova cannon attacks. The 6+ armour makes sense given the model I have made, it has a huge armoured prow made from a ravenwing master jet bike.

The planet killer isn't so much a problem, other than it's ability to take out ordnance so easily. It is more that I wanted a huge centrepiece for my fleet. The fluff is in progress but I wanted to get the rules and model finished before I finalised it.

Edit: It will most certainly be a 0-1 choice.
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: horizon on October 03, 2011, 04:06:29 AM
So when looking at the weapon set it brings:

Despoiler class battleship torpedo version (410pts):
+ 2hits
+ armoured prow
- 5cm speed
+1 dorsal lance
+ beefed up NC


Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: Trickstick on October 03, 2011, 04:16:42 AM
Also:

+ 1 Turret
+ 1 Torpedo

Unless I missed something in the FAQs.
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: horizon on October 03, 2011, 06:56:52 AM
+1 torp indeed.
Despoiler has 5 turrets.

I'd advocate -1 dorsal lance, and less prow torps.
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: Trickstick on October 03, 2011, 11:41:10 AM
Hmmm, despoiler has 4 turrets in my "Ships of the gothic sector" pdf. Did they change it somewhere and I missed it?

How about 3 lances, 6 torpedoes for 510 points?
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: horizon on October 03, 2011, 08:07:35 PM
....my mind has melted.... it is 4 turrets... how weird....


Sounds good.
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: Trickstick on October 10, 2011, 12:58:14 PM
A revision to the ship design. I have changed the loadout to be more like an apocalypse than an emperor.

AttributeValuePoints Cost
Hits1470
Shields440
Turrets525
Armour6+/5+42.5
Speed15cm3
Turns45°---

The weapons:

ArmamentRange/SpeedFirepower/StrengthFire ArcPoints
Port Lance Batteries60cm6L78/td]
Starboard Lance Batteries60cm6678
Dorsal L Weapon Battery60cm6L/F/R27
Plasma Devastator30-150cmD3 Nova Cannon ShotsF75

Notes: The Exalted Subjugation is a slow and ponderous vessel and cannot use Come to a New Heading special orders. If the dice roll for the Plasma devestator is a six (using the old 5/6 = 3 shots), then the ship suffers a thruster critical, without the +1 damage. The weapon still fires that turn as normal.

Formula cost: 438.5
Adjusted cost: 450

I lowered the points premium by a lot, as there is no longer any torp/bomber synergy. Here is a picture of the work in progress:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6096/6228371769_149dce7186_z.jpg)
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: horizon on October 10, 2011, 02:18:56 PM
6 lances @ 60cm? No drawback?
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: Trickstick on October 10, 2011, 02:31:48 PM
I was thinking that it was like a venerable apocalypse, so the technology is more advanced. I could add the special lock on rule but then it starts turning into just a splightly beefed up apocalypse.

Edit: Maybe 45cm with the special rule?
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: Sigoroth on October 10, 2011, 08:57:11 PM
If you took that massive prow off and replaced with a normal one it could pass as a light battleship, with 10 hits. The rear looks cool, but smaller than a normal BB, not larger.
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on October 11, 2011, 04:46:22 AM
I'm not sure what your going for for sure without seeing the fluff, but I see this more as a newer ship than an older one. I'm thinking something along the lines of the admech using techniques learned from what may have been salvaged from the planet killer after it was destroyed,  but before it was covered up ;). In that line of thinking I would go with the straight apoc lance rules, as they would graft a system on they are familiar with already. Then boost your dorsal to say 8 weps and add another 8 prow L/F/R weps. This will bring your weapon loadout more into line with a planet killer type vessel, altho I think even with this its still out gunned by the pk plus the pk has a 9 torp spread. The rear does look a bit thin compared to that prow.
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: Sigoroth on October 11, 2011, 06:19:50 AM
What are the metal pieces from?
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: Trickstick on October 11, 2011, 02:31:56 PM
The rear doesn't look as small as the picture makes it out to be. The metal bow and stern pieces are from a master of the ravenwing jetbike. The bridge is the spare one from a retribution, and the emblem on it is a crozius.

I think I'll work on some fluff for it tomorrow.
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on October 12, 2011, 02:20:34 AM
+1 on the fluff, I'd love to see some more pics too!
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: Trickstick on October 12, 2011, 02:26:28 AM
Alas, I no longer have the camera. I will probably post up some pictures when it is painted though.

As for fluff, I think that I am going to go for an "ancient relic" style backstory. Maybe it was found in the warp...
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: RCgothic on November 08, 2011, 01:42:23 PM
My formula (which is available on here somewhere) turned it out at 392.5pts, reason being it isn't actually all that heavily armed.

Shields and armour came to 138.6pts.
Speed and turns came to 14pts
Turrets come to 18pts
Lances came to 148.7pts
WBs came to 28.1pts
D3 Nova shots ~ 2 Nova shots ~12 torps = 44.8pts.

The dorsal armament is weaker than a battlecruiser. The lances may be nice at long range, but twin long range broadsides have poor synergy with each other and don't come anywhere near the BFG:R Retribution broadside in damage potential. The only seriously nasty weapon on the thing is the D3 Nova, and personally I'd prefer 12 torps.
Title: Re: "Exalted Subjugation" - Super Battleship
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on November 08, 2011, 03:48:37 PM
Ive been batting around a "generic" venerable bb somewhat losely based off of what your working on here and the old BT fleet list Eternal Crusader. Basically a short range but more powerful bb similar to the SO but not being an ultra exclusive.

Stats                                                Smotherman                    RcGothic
14 hits                                      l                  70                 l            56 
4 shields                                   l                  40                 l            40
20cm speed                              l                    4                 l            40
45* turns                                  l                    -                  l              -
6+ armour                                 l                149.85            l            70
4 turrets                                    l                  20                 l            16
18 wb p/s                                  l                  54                 l            90
12 bombardment cannon l/f/r    l                  84                 l            72
4 prow launch                            l                  40                 l            56
6 torps                                       l                  21                 l            22.5
total                                           l                482.85            l          462.5

Smotherman includes bonuses for being SM in the 6+ armour so that can explain the 20 point discrepancy. I doubled the value of L/F/R weapons batteries on your (RC's) chart to represent the bombardment cannons. Compared to the standard battlebarge and the SO I would place this more at the 500 point mark, however both of those are overpriced themselves. to keep it around the 480 mark here I think dropping the 2 extra hits would be in order. 55 points over the standard barge gives it an extra shield and turret, 4 extra bomb cannons and an extra launch. I consider the 18 batteries a wash due to the range decrease.

Thoughts?