Specialist Arms Forum
Specialist Games General Discussion => Events => Topic started by: lordgoober on October 13, 2011, 05:39:19 PM
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Ok. Just giving the initial ad post for Adepticon's BFG tournament for the 2012
convention. The webcart isn't active yet (hopefully by the end of the month) so
be patient.
The convention is April 20-22, 2012 (with some potential extra free events on
the 19th)this time around, a little later in the year.
The BFG event is on Sunday April 22, starting at 8am. We have 20 slots
available at the start.
The 2010 FAQ and BFG compendium will be in effect for this one.
Fleet design rules
1500 points. You must have at least one ship with Cruiser or Battleship as it's
class. No all escort fleets here. IA 10 ships except for the Vanguard will be
legal.
For scenario 2: You will have a transport flotilla with a "transport point" size
of 6. IE the equivalent of 6 normal transports. You will have an extra 120
points to spend on transport "Upgrades".
These transports should be modeled appropriate to your fleet. Conversions are
probably your best way to go since the GW transports are long OOP IIRC.
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This wont be using FAQ 2010, right? So sad!
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Suggestion: make an Event as well and link it to the thread(s). I for one might want to come, but have NO idea of where to go....
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Uhm LS,
This wont be using FAQ 2010, right? So sad!
The 2010 FAQ and BFG compendium will be in effect for this one.
Read. :)
Lex, it is too far away for us. ;)
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Heck no .... there is a job-related congress in Miami a week earlier. I might take a road trip like last time when I visited Memphis and Vancouver !!
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Ah so, then it is quite a cool thing to do actually.
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Lex, if you're going to be in our hemisphere, you're going to have to do a WM tour that swings through the northeast/New England. I'm pretty sure it's required to keep your mod status :P
I believe Adepticon is in Chicago Illinois, by the way.
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More precisely the Westin Lombard, Illinois. About 45 minutes drive from O'Hare and about 2 blocks from the Chicago Battle Bunker.
Other Specialist Games Events.
Friday starting at 8am: 2000 point Warmaster
Saturday starting at 8am: 3000 point Epic
2 day Friday and Saturday: Blood Bowl.
Registration goes live on October 31.
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Hokay, so here are my questions (all on transports):
FAQ 2010 says:
- For every heavy transport in the fleet there must already be at least four escort-sized full transports, eight half-transports such as armed freighters or Rogue Trader cargo vessels, or any combination thereof.
If I wanted to take a heavy transport...I couldn't, right? Since I only have 120 points to spend on upgraded transports and I'm not allowed more than 6 (and special transports are swapped on a 1-1 basis), is there any way to take a heavy transport and other special transports under your allowances, or is it only one or the other?
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Ok. I guess it wasn't completely clear. You will have a flotilla of transports of X number that including half and double transports will be the equivalent of 6 regular transports.
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I'm still confused (as evidenced here and in my thread in the discussion section). I thought half transports were still swapped on a 1-1 basis with standard transports.
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Basically it's like this.
Each fleet has 6 "points" of transports. here is an example of what I"m talking about.
Heavy Transport (2)
Regular Transport (1)
Regular Transport (1)
Escort Carrier (1/2) (60 points)
Armed Freighter (1/2) (20 points)
Armed Freighter (1/2) (20 points)
Armed Freighter (1/2) (20 points)
This transport flotilla has maximum of 120 points of transport upgrades and has the transport capacity equivalent of 6 regular transports.
That's what I mean about 6 "points" of transports
For the scenario. There's going to be a planet in the center of the board. Each fleet is going to be racing their transports to the planet. Each transport must enter orbit on one turn, survive to their fleet's next movement phase then they land giving X bonus VPs. X I haven't decided yet but it will be for 1 full transport's worth of capacity.
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I forsee problems as this scenario will benefit certain races.
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Agreed.
Plus, I'd go for all fast clippers then. Get there faster.
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That's why it's probably going to be 100 vp bonus for a full transport. Note. the transport must survive an enemy shooting phase and 2 ordinance phases.
In the past there have been scenarios where normal ships were doing this duty instead of transports. I just figured I'd give it a shot. I will be testing this at some point in the near future.
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To be honest, I never liked any scenario that added or took away from a fleet, such as like this one. Achieving different battlefield objectives is more entertaining and fair, to me.
BUT, playtest and see what you come up with.
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Concerns noted and taken into account. We will be using the transport flotilla in every game now. I will edit the fleet construction rules appropriately.
This will be official.
Fleet Design
1500 point fleet
In addition. You have a transport flotilla with your fleet that is the construction equivalent of 6 normal transports. IE 2 1/2 transport variants (Escort Carriers and Armed Transports) are needed to count for 1 point of transports and heavy transports count 2 towards this count. You will have an extra 120 points in your fleet point allotment that can only be used towards Transport upgrades. If you wish you may spend points from your normal fleet allotment on more transport upgrades. The transport flotilla will be used in all 3 games.
Oopsie. Escort Carriers don't count towards victory conditions so they are like the Q-ships and are 0 "point" transports so are just bought as an upgrade to the flotilla.
Addendum, taking the concerns in the other thread into account, all fleets except for the Eldar (Corsair and Craftworld) will use the standard transport types. Necrons are disallowed Escort Carriers since their fleet doesn't use attack craft. Eldar will follow FAQ 2010 for their transport stats.
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What about Tyranids? If they select escort carriers, what kind of ordnance will the transports launch?
EDIT: Also, what about normal transports? If they aren't any of the special variants, are they free additions to the transport flotilla? If not, how many points do they cost?
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Ok. All of the transports are going to be of the standard rules. You will launch attack craft appropriate to your fleet.
You know what, EVERY fleet will use the standard transports, even the pansy eldar ;) I liked the fluff idea that someone had put in the other thread.
Normal transports cost no points normally since they're scenario specific. The 120 free points you get are meant to be for Upgrades to the other types of transports.
So for example, You could do this
6 normal transports + 2 (q-ship/escort transport)
1 Heavy Transport (counts as 2 transports)+ 6 Armed Freighter (total counts as 3 transports as each Armed Freighter counts as 1/2 a normal) + 1 normal transport
etc.
Now we're going to be fluffing these as being recovered transports from a lost fleet so they should all have the Imperial feel but you can convert them to be more appropriate to the fleet that recovered them (like tentacles and stuff for tyranids), bonus props to a necron guy who brings a Heavy Transport and makes it look like a Stargate Ha'tak. :)
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I liked the fluff idea that someone had put in the other thread.
:)
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(http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/members/1/307/306160/thumb_620x2000/hatak_smaller_image_size.png)
just incase theres any takers that need some visual aid ;)
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Ok. I've got the scenario plans pretty much set and the new methodology set for the sub missions that are used but could use some feedback and playtesting outside my local group. Would peeps here be willing to give me some of that data?
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If your looking at running custom scenarios and subplots would it really be fair to allow people to playtest them when there will possiably be others that have not seen these come game day? That aside I imagine I can run through some for you and see how they work out.
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It's not normally a problem because we run primer tournaments for most events and those scenarios are posted to the Adepticon website and most final scenarios are usually very close to the primer scenarios if not the same.
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I can do playtesting.
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I can playtest with you if you like, I'm in the area. Let me know when you're available, we can meet up at the Downer's Grove GW store. (That's nearby Adepticon, right?)
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Are these the ones your wanting run then? Im not seeing anything to do with transports has that idea been dropped?
http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2011/2011bfg.pdf (http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2011/2011bfg.pdf)
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no. those are last year's scenarios. I haven't posted the new ones anywhere yet.
Ok. so here's the basic schtick for this year's sub missions. Instead of rolling on the chart like on the older scenarios, what you are going to have is a pack of 5 cards. 2 of which are scenario restricted. Each has a 3/2/1 bonus bp objective where you only get the highest bonus bp. You will be able to use 1-2 per game, these are picked secretly before deployment. I got this idea from Bilbo's Birthday Bash where you had 4 and use 1 per game with scenario 5 having a fixed one, that being said when you have only 3 games, I decided to have players able to use 2 so we can have a bonus swing of up to 15 from sub missions, which is almost the point value for a "massacre"
Card #3 is not allowed in Scenario 2 of this pack, Card #4 is not allowed for Scenario 3
Cards 3 and 4 are why the transports are being used in every game.
#1 Head of the Snake
3 Pts: Bridge Smashed Critical or Destroy enemy flagship
2 Pts: Enemy Flagship Disengaged
1 Pt: Enemy Flaghsip Crippled
#2: Attrition
3 Pts: Destroy or Cripple 75% enemy fleet
2 Pts: Destroy or Cripple 50% enemy fleet
1 Pt: Destroy or Cripple 25% enemy fleet
#3: Break Through
3 Pts: Get all 6 strength points of Transport Flotilla off Opponent's Board Edge
2 Pts: Get 4 strength points of Transport Flotilla off Opponent's Board Edge
1 Pt: Get 2 strength points of Transport Flotilla off Opponent's Board Edge
#4: Commerce Raiders
3 Pts: Destroy all 6 strength points of opponent's transport flotilla
2 Pts: Destroy 4 strength points of opponent's transport flotilla
1 Pt: Destroy 2 strength points of opponent's transport flotilla
#5: Preservation of Fleet Strength
3 Pts: at least 75% of your fleet must be alive and uncrippled at end of game
2 Pts: at least 50% of your fleet must be alive and uncrippled at end of game
1 Pt: at least 25% of your fleet must be alive and uncrippled at end of game
Each table will have a warp rift somewhere on the board. +1 bonus BP for successfully navigating with at least one ship/squadron. Warp rift will not be dead center of board unlike past years.
Transport flotilla must be deployed as legal squadrons, they do not need to all be in one squadron.
Scenario 1: BRB Scenario 10 Stock from book.
Scenario 2: Land the Transports. Medium planet in Center of board. Transport must park in orbit and survive to the owner's next turn in order to land. +50 vp for 1/2 transports (fast clippers and armed transports), +100 vp for regular transports, +200 vp for heavy transports.
Scenario 3: Deny them the Spoils. 20 cm standard deployment, VP as from scenario 2 for destroying enemy transports.
In year's past I've had the final scenario be the Sink the Bismark scenario from the pdf on the website. I've gotten a few comments that this scenario is getting a bit stale and am swapping it out this year. It may see a return in 2013. As you can see, the scenarios aren't anything overly complicated this time around (case in point the random deployment from 2011) so there shouldn't be huge issues. The transport flotillas are what make this year interesting.
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Scenario 1: BRB Scenario 10 Stock from book.
Scenario 2: Land the Transports. Medium planet in Center of board. Transport must park in orbit and survive to the owner's next turn in order to land. +50 vp for 1/2 transports (fast clippers and armed transports), +100 vp for regular transports, +200 vp for heavy transports.
Scenario 3: Deny them the Spoils. 20 cm standard deployment, VP as from scenario 2 for destroying enemy transports.
In year's past I've had the final scenario be the Sink the Bismark scenario from the pdf on the website. I've gotten a few comments that this scenario is getting a bit stale and am swapping it out this year. It may see a return in 2013. As you can see, the scenarios aren't anything overly complicated this time around (case in point the random deployment from 2011) so there shouldn't be huge issues. The transport flotillas are what make this year interesting.
1. BRB? im not familar with this do you mean BBB which wolud make this a standard Fleet Engagement w/ a randomly placed warprift and all other setup as per standard rules? does the warp rift take the place of a randomly generated terrain feature or is in addition to? Will the terrain be randomly generated at all?
2. I cannot find this scenario? what are the setup requirements? same terrain questions as above. also what designates orbit? is this anywhere within the gravity well or must the ships enter the low orbit table?
3. ^ same on setup requirements and terrain questions
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Ok. Standard deployment is 20cm from long board edge. Each table is going to have 3 gas cloud pieces and 3 asteroid fields, the warp rift and a small planet. Scenario 2 will have a Medium Planet and has a gravity well according to the rules in the center of the board instead of the small planet. Distribute terrain as normal except that the Warp Rift will always be on the center line so neither player has a shorter distance to get to it.
Ships must stop in the gravity well and stay there until their next movement phase. We don't have the space to attempt to do Low Orbit tables at Adepticon. Space has become even MORE of a premium this year due to events selling out even faster than expected, hell, the silly roundbaser main events (40k Team Tournament and 40k Championship) sold out in the first 18 hours of the webcart being open.
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Will terrain be preset in all rounds? Please say this is so, as I'd much prefer an abitrator (you, the organizer!) set them all up equally than have some f-wits be stupid with the terrain. I've only had it once, and it worked to my advantage in the end, but I would still rather not waste time with the set up and go straight into gaming.
Questions - Scenarios
Scenario 1: None
Scenario 2:
- How does a Transport park in orbit? Does it actually need to Burn Retros? How close does it need to be?
- Will there be normal VP as well, or is it just for destroying Transports?
Scenario 3:
- Will there be normal VP as well, or is it just for destroying Transports?
Questions - Cards
Card 1:
- Can the Bridge Smashed critical be on any ship or is it just the flagship?
- What about fleets that don't suffer a Bridge Smashed?
Card 2: None
Card 3:
- Round up or down for Special Transports? Say I get 3 Armed Transports (1.5 Standard) and a Heavy Transport (2 Standard) for a total of 3.5 Standard Transports off the board edge. Does it round up to 4, or stay at 3.5?
Card 4:
- Same as for card 3.
Card 5: None
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Yes. I will reset the terrain for each game. What I did 2 years ago after deciding after my first year in charge that the old terrain was pretty much for the most part unusable because you can't really put ships stably on cotton and embedded rocks is replaced all the (gas clouds/asteroid fields/warp rifts) with painted masonite that has gone over fairly well. I'm looking to potentially replace the planets we have right now (which are perfectly functional except that their bases aren't completely clear and they're pretty much at table level) but that may happen later in the future.
Scenario 2: Parking in orbit basically means that you finish your prior move in the gravity well of the planet. Lets call it within 10 cm of the edge of the planet template for a test.
All scenarios use basic VP. These games are basic VP battles with a little extra to spice the games up.
Cards:
Card 1 specifically refers to the flagship as the objective is to off the enemy admiral.\
Card 3/4: Round Down. looking for full 2 point breakdowns.
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Just curious, since you're not doing the Bismark scenario anymore, are all-escort fleets still disallowed? I'd love to run a Tyranid Vanguard Fleet list if that's legal.
Also, for scenario 2 you mentioned they must "park in orbit and survive to the owner's next turn in order to land." Does this mean that after they have been in orbit for a turn they are removed from the board? Or will it be important to secure an escape route for them as well?
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For scenario 2 they will be removed.
I'm leery about swapping that out because of the one "chopping off the head" sub mission card. If you're willing to let someone automatically get full success for that card then I'm willing to let you do that.
Crapola. I forgot that I need to take Necrons and Tyranids into account for that card anyway. Thanks for reminding me.
For opponents of Necrons, success with that card is going to have to do with doing x/2x/3x amounts of LD damage due to crits spread amongst the fleet. Tyranids I have no clue. Probably for the regular fleets, doing the card effects to any single hive ship will count, for the vanguard fleet I'll have to think, maybe have x percent of the fleet destroyed.
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For tyranids, wouldn't it make the most sense to have it apply to the most expensive hive ship in the fleet? Even if it matters little the the 'nids themselves, the enemy will consider the biggest ship the biggest threat - the 'head of the snake,' so to speak.
For vanguard fleets, a fleet percentage would probably work fine. Going by number of escorts rather than points value would be interesting, I think.
Or you could just keep it the same, it doesn't really matter than much.
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I have just officially removed the requirement for having at least one capital ship in your fleet since the Bismark is officially OUT for 2012. I will take that into account when I finalize the sub mission cards.
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ok ive played through these a few times
Scenario 1: basic and to the point, cards 1,2 and 3 were a breeze on this
Scenario 2: little different, the hardest game by far to complete the objective, I found it best to ignore the objective completly and focus on destryoing the enemy. All of the cards were easy on this one as my opponets were all focusing on keeping their transports alive and getting them to the planet I would say card 4 is a must here and its likely that no one will score any bonus points.
Scenario 3: way too easy, deployment should be 20cm from the short table edge and must cross the enemy table edge to win. with the setup from the long table edge both players setup far enough away that their convoy can just aaf off the other edge and never meet the enemy. All of the cards are pretty easy on this one also, I would say with the current setup card 3 is a must on this one, its just too easy to not take it.
overall I like the idea of having opposing convoy fleets, but in execution its a little flat as they are just too weak to survive long enough to complete the objectives without some sort of special rules (planetary assault has random setup for the defender and theyre spread out pretty thin, convoy has random forces that must be activated by comming within 30cm or one per turn) IN is espically spoiled with these as their novas can knock out the transports in droves.
Biggest things I would consider changing is the deployment setup on scenario 3 and the Vp scale for scenario 2 and 3
something like this would probably work better
No VP awarded for destroyed ships
both players have equal ammounts of transports land 0 vp
one player has 1 more (full transpost rounded down) 100 vp
one player has 2 more (full transpost rounded down) 200 vp
one player has 3 more (full transpost rounded down) 300 vp
one player has 4 more (full transpost rounded down) 400 vp
one player has 5 more (full transpost rounded down) 500 vp
one player has 6 more (full transpost rounded down) 600 vp
etc...
This will force people to attempt the objectives instead of just ignoring them and killing everything to gain vp as I was.
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Thanks for the feedback. It's stuff like this that I'm looking for feedback on. Sadly due to the fact that these games are on tables that are connected to each other, it's probably not feasable to do a short table edge = home edge.
I do like your vp based on differential. I'll try to give that a playtest or two myself soon.
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Anywhere within the middle third of the long table edges could work as well so split the tables into thirds and have the transport convoys deployed in the middle section all other ships setup as normal. It will still be a bit short for the game but not so easy as if both setup on opposing corners.
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Try this out. Have the transports move onto the board from that middle 1/3 during the player's first turn or have them deploy on the board edge in that middle 1/3. Maybe even have them move onto the board turn 2.
On the topic of the Attacker/Defender. Sadly those sort of scenarios don't work well in a tournament setting otherwise I'd give it a shot.
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having them come into play after the main fleets might be intersting... I had another Q pop up also Can you use part of your fleet points for special transports? so take say a heavy transport (40), 4 standard transport (0), and 4 q ships (240) this puts you 160 over the alloted amount but can you take the 160 from your 1500 limit? also have you ever considered a side board? maybe something like 2k worth of ships to select your 1500 from? This would give people a bit more options.
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I thought I had put that in there. If you want to take from your main fleet allotment go right ahead. I've got to confirm with the guy in charge of making all the rules pdfs that these changes have been put into place.
I've not thought of a sideboard type situation. That will not happen this year but that might not be a bad idea for 2013. I'll need to give that a test drive or two.
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As far as sideboards go, I'd say no more than 1/5 of the total points, making it 1500 with a 300 pt sideboard.
goob, it wasn't posted anywhere that you can use fleet points in addition to the 120 for transport upgrades, but if I can that may make it a little easier.
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Ok they just keep coming. Will there be a maximum number of transports? If I can take from my fleet list can I take say 20 fast clippers (1000 vp)? Or is there a maximum amount of vp you can earn? What about rouge trader fleets? Can a rogue trader take a mostly transport fleet and "land" all of their transports then disengage with their cruisers? Do rouge trader fleets transports that make it off the table edge in scenario 3 gain bonus vp?
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You are maxed out at the 6 transport equivalent.
I've not thought about Rogue Trader fleets because nobody around here plays them.
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Wouldn't that be a pretty easy fix though? Simply make the transports selected as part of your flotilla be the only ones whose transport value is relevant to the scenarios. So you can take as many more transports as you're allowed in a Rogue Trader fleet, but only six transport points' worth of transports will count, and these can't be changed from game to game. (Their transports are the same as the ones anyone else would be using anyway, right?)
Also, I would like to say I don't find it a problem that the games don't end up being centered around the transport flotilla. I personally don't get to play BFG a whole lot, so I like that the games are more of a regular battle with a bit of a twist or bonus than an all-out break from regular gameplay. Having the transports be the main/only important part of the game makes it feel more 'gimmicky' to me. Also, if you increase the focus on the transports, what are you going to do about the IN NC advantage that AndrewChristlieb mentioned? I don't want to play a game where I lose hopelessly in the first two turns because my transports get obliterated by NCs from across the table.
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The transport part is all bonus VPs. blowing up the enemy fleet is still going to be the vast majority of the VP for the games.
Basically the transports are replacing a mechanic that was used a couple years ago in one of the scenarios where if you parked a ship/squadron in orbit for a full game turn you got their point value as bonus VP for "landing troops" on the planet.
I will be changing the VP breakdown to something like that "X more than opponent" table that was suggested earlier in the thread.
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Ohhh... So when he said "no VP awarded for destroyed ships," the transports were the ships in reference, not the whole fleet. I feel slow now. :P Alright, thanks for clearing that up.
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Correct. I guess tghings weren't perfectly clear there. They will be when the official stuff is on there.
All scenarios will be primarily scored on standard VP with a sliding scale for battle points.
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Just wanted to double check - so, all the rules that will be used have been posted up on the A-con page under the rules now, right? There aren't any changes that might happen?
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lemme take a quick look to confirm. sorry I haven't looked at this board in a week or so. We're fine. That is the correct rules set up there.
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So, just to make sure I'm doing it right, if I took the following as my transport fleet:
6 Fast Clippers - 120 points (6x20)
2 Escort Carriers - 120 points (2x60)
Heavy Transport - 40 points
= 280 points
Those are the right points, correct? No "free" transport upgrades anymore?
Also, for the paint scoring where it says the fleet "has a story or background," does this mean like a printed story I'd whip out during paint scoring time?
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For the story/background yes. Just a short little printed piece of fluff, say about a paragraph or two.
You are correct there on your points. So for your fleet, your 120 point allotment would be spent on the fast clippers and then you spent 160 points from your main fleet allotment so your normal fleet would have 1340 to spend on it.
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guys please do post results of the tournament, im curious to see how each faction did :D
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Will do. There will also be the official results posted to the Adepticon website a couple weeks after the event.
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Yea, I'll definitely want to see faction/point break down. It sucked the last time I went because I won all three games and didn't win any prizes other than Best Painted, but they never put the scores up so I never knew how poorly I actually did ;).