Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: Fidel on October 13, 2011, 11:08:37 PM
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So here are my two questions:
I really want to get into BFG, and because I love playing Marines in 40k, and I am becoming a bigger fan of space battle combat games (blame the Steller Impact computer game). I really want to do a space marine ship (and even though it might not win many games, I want to do a chapter fleet fluffy list). So the first part of my question is where (in these forums or you can post it) is a nice compilation of the rules. I know GW has put their rules up, but I also know that there is an FAQ 2011 (?) up and running for space marines and was wondering as to where to find it. So basically this question is: besides the GW rules, where can I find another nice compilation of the rules or updated ones (I am new be nice)?
The second question is to critic this list... it is NOT specific but rather an overall look at my fleet in its FULLEST composition:
2 Battle Barges
5 strike cruisers
6 Nova Frigates
6 Gladius Frigates
10 Hunter destroyers
This is a typically large fleet, the smaller fleet would consist of:
1 Battlebarge
3 Strike Cruisers
3 Nova Frigates
3 Gladius Frigates
3 Hunter Destroyers
I know there are NO specifics... but does that seem fluffy/viable?
Finally, here is pictures of one of my fluffy lists battle barges. The 40k marines are called the Kubans (with Fidel Castrous as the Chapter Master... played as Vulkan. The theory behind this is that they are so good at rolling Kuban Cigars in the forges of their home planet that they obviously can use flamer/melta weapons well) and so the ship is obviously... well you will see :)
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h432/Daniel_Sevila/Warhammer%2040k/DSC02720.jpg)
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h432/Daniel_Sevila/Warhammer%2040k/DSC02721.jpg)
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h432/Daniel_Sevila/Warhammer%2040k/DSC02722.jpg)
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h432/Daniel_Sevila/Warhammer%2040k/DSC02723.jpg)
You can correct my list if you want as well :P
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Koobans baby! Yeayah! Lol love it, bb looks clean nice details. As for the fleet list try making a few point specific lists (500, 1k, 1.5k, etc) drop the novas they're way overpriced and don't forget you can take cobras and swords also. Sm in gothic are brutal and in your face, all ahead full and lockon are your friend. Make good use of terrain or your short range will hurt you. Make sure your playing a good mix of scenarios if its always just fleet engagements or cruiser clashes your fleet won't hang too well, but in the raids list you rock.
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Koobans baby! Yeayah! Lol love it, bb looks clean nice details. As for the fleet list try making a few point specific lists (500, 1k, 1.5k, etc) drop the novas they're way overpriced and don't forget you can take cobras and swords also. Sm in gothic are brutal and in your face, all ahead full and lockon are your friend. Make good use of terrain or your short range will hurt you. Make sure your playing a good mix of scenarios if its always just fleet engagements or cruiser clashes your fleet won't hang too well, but in the raids list you rock.
Is there a place where I can view the rules. I think I read somewhere that the GW ones are outdated... so where would I find the full rules for Space Marines (I can only see the FAQ with the new fortress monastery... thats it?)
Feel like this is a stupid question....
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Sorry. Faq 2010 and the compendiums. I can't get the link up on this stupid phone and I don't have internet at my new place yet tho :(, but if you run a search for faq 2010 on here you'll find it. These are just additions and revisions of the base rules published on gw's site.
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Sorry. Faq 2010 and the compendiums. I can't get the link up on this stupid phone and I don't have internet at my new place yet tho :(, but if you run a search for faq 2010 on here you'll find it. These are just additions and revisions of the base rules published on gw's site.
Bah I can wait my man :)
Still deciding how to paint the other ships hahah!
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The link:
http://tinyurl.com/23nul8q
Nothing wrong with lists, use FAQ/Marine document to spice up the Strike Cruisers.
Painting: neat colour selection. Thin your paints and thin your paints. Best advice I can give at this point. And paint the inside of the weapon battery guns black.
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Ok so this is what I came up with after... deliberating with myself?
This is a 1500 Point List (1495)
Seditio Opprimere (MOTF - Master of the Fleet) (should I add rerolls???)
Strike Cruiser + Shield
Strike Cruiser + Shield
Strike Cruiser + Shield
Strike Cruiser + Bombardment Cannon
Strike Cruiser + Bombardment Cannon
Gladius
Gladius
Gladius
Gladius
Gladius
Now I like this. Very Balanced, can really outmanuvre most foes... (damn you Eldar!!!!). Now should i drop something for re-rolls... or what? Critique pleaseeeee
Edit:
I also kinda Like this:
Seditio Opprimere (MOTF - Master of the Fleet)
3 Strike Cruisers w/extra shield
2 Bombard Strike Cruisers w/extra shield
5 Swords
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This is the second list exactly like this I've seen this week, must mean its good :P. Go with the second one, swords are a bit slower but that shouldn't be an issue as they're just as fast as the strike cruisers. As a side note, isn't the Seditio Opprimere an ultra marines exclusive? Or is this something that's going to become a generic "venerable" bb?
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I would not allow the Seditio in a non-Ultramarines fleet. As a stretch only in Ultramarine successor chapters.
So, this trend is worrying. Which means the regular Barge must get the extra shield. :)
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Thats what I thought, why allow every imperial/chaos ship as a venerable bb when you could just take this. I think there should be more examples of chapter specific venerable bb also tho.
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I think it's only worrying on paper. On the table the SedO isn't quite as useful since the typical role of the BB is to provide long range firepower and the thing is a VBB which means it gives up 100% VP for just getting crippled. It's a fun fleet but not as strong as your regular BB I think and there are other options for a VBB that fill holes in the SM fleet better than the SedO does and do it cheaper.
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With the rest of the Marines being short ranged the regular Barge will end up short range at one point or another. The SO is also good the Marine style of boarding & teleport attacks (eg one must be close).
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With the rest of the Marines being short ranged the regular Barge will end up short range at one point or another. The SO is also good the Marine style of boarding & teleport attacks (eg one must be close).
I thought this as much. The strike cruisers will probably be in sluggging range with the extra shield, so I would enjoy the battle barge to get up there right in the mix with teleport attacks/boarding attacks. But you have some good points about the VP conditions. So is there a better Venerable BB..... should I use a normal one???
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I would not allow the Seditio in a non-Ultramarines fleet.
Hear hear! I strongly support this motion ;). If nothing else, it must simply always be painted as an Ultramarines ship, even if the fleet is a different chapter.
Rules for the SW Emperor Battleship would be pretty neat. I mean, it'd likely be just the same as a regular VBB, but with a tweak or so for flavor.
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Hear hear! I strongly support this motion ;). If nothing else, it must simply always be painted as an Ultramarines ship, even if the fleet is a different chapter.
This would mean that it would never get played. Who'd paint up their fleet in the terrible SM colour scheme?
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Well, if you bend the scheme a little it could end up like this:
Invictus - Marine Battle Barge
(http://www.tacticalwargames.net/archive/lib/comp/gothicomp08/gothicomp71.jpg)
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(http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1610020a_99060101074_MarneusCalgarPowerArmour_224x160.jpg)
I guess its ok if I take this guy and play with his rules but paint him up in the black templars colors for my 40k too then?
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This would mean that it would never get played. Who'd paint up their fleet in the terrible SM colour scheme?
I think it's a very nice color scheme, blue and white. What's so wrong with that? And Andrew makes a very good point; one can't simply take a unit from a different army and put it into their own and expect everything to be hunky dory. It'd be like making the Planet Killer a Red Corsairs ship, using Marneus Calgar in a Black Templars army, or using the Avatar in a Dark Eldar army. Sure it's close, but in the end it goes against the fluff and you end up looking like a git.
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This would mean that it would never get played. Who'd paint up their fleet in the terrible SM colour scheme?
I think it's a very nice color scheme, blue and white. What's so wrong with that? And Andrew makes a very good point; one can't simply take a unit from a different army and put it into their own and expect everything to be hunky dory. It'd be like making the Planet Killer a Red Corsairs ship, using Marneus Calgar in a Black Templars army, or using the Avatar in a Dark Eldar army. Sure it's close, but in the end it goes against the fluff and you end up looking like a git.
That seems a bit much though, as the Black Templar Codex and Vanilla Marines Codex are different, and avatars don't show up in the codex of the Dark Eldar. The way I see it is that chapters customise their ships to their chapters needs, and it would seem... really un-fluffy... if Ultramarines were the only ones that got a slugger cruiser. To transfer SO to another chapter might not be that much of a fluff change since all it is is a tougher BB with shorter weapons (now if it had lances or something that made it supremely unique, I would then question transferring it).
And if you don't like SO in this list, what would should I get for my points when I get a Battlebarge instead, since it is less points
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I started playing when races got race-specific characters and things that nobody else got; those units help provide character to the race. Now it's all "counts-as" and nothing is sacred ;)
Not all SM armies get to use the Blood Angel fast vehicles or Dark Angel Mortis dreadnoughts, despite their superior qualities. It seems more fluffy that way, in that communication isn't instant-galaxy-wide and things stay hidden or jealously guarded by their chapters. Similarly, not all SM chapters will have such a large gunboat, mainly because it is very unfluffy. The IN and Inquisition and whoever else wouldn't allow it, not to mention not all forgeworlds are the same and can produce that kind of thing.
What's so wrong with painting it in Ultramarines colors and saying it's joined up with your chapter for a crusade or somesuch? If anything it gives you the opportunity to try a different paint scheme. Trading it out for a regular battlebarge is only a difference of 25 points, which can go toward a reroll.
In the end it's your fleet, and as such it's not subject to moral complaints by anyone but yourself ;)
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Any of the chaos battleships seem like they would make a good venerable, especially that planet killer one... ::) oberon emperor and apoc would work but they're way slower than the strike cruisers and that may be a problem. The retribution actually sounds good in a sm fleet. Its cheaper, just as fast, armored prow, more torps, lances, range, range, and um range. Loses launch tho, but it makes up for so much that's wrong with the sm fleet.
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What's so wrong with painting it in Ultramarines colors and saying it's joined up with your chapter for a crusade or somesuch?
See highlighted section for the answer to your question.
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You are fail ;)
This is win:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/veritas117/Adepticon%202008/100_3299.jpg)
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Looks ok to me, doesn't the SO have lance decks to represent the bombardment cannons tho?
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That's what my next BB will be ;)
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I think that the blue and white CAN be made to work well, but the way the smurf fleet is painted on GW isn't it.
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The difference between the SM fleet and the various codexes is that, in order to field Marneus Calgar you're giving up the ability to field Belial or Azrael. With the 2010 SM list, there's no advantage whatsoever if you don't consider the SO as an option. I'm looking at starting a Marine Fleet. I like the idea of a VBB, but I don't like the idea of an IN or Chaos ship as the centerpiece for the fleet(mis-matched styles), thus I'm kind of left with SO, and I play Dark Angles.
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To use the SO, you're giving up the option to use the Planet Killer as a VBB...;)
Also, the VBB rules do say the VBB must be painted appropriately, and the SO is an Ultramarines vessel, sooo...:P
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Da should have a fortress as the center piece. This is why I said that the common choices should have their own named vbb's. Shouldn't be too hard to make up a few for the most popular chapters. I also don't see the problem with making a "generic" vbb based off the standard bb also. Seeing how the faq is officially never going to be official ::) official is now pretty much whatever you can get the majority to agree on :D
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You are fail ;)
This is win:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/veritas117/Adepticon%202008/100_3299.jpg)
Any fleet with such a colour scheme is destined to lose. The Ultrasucky colour scheme is ultrafail.
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5-1 tournament record seems to say you are completely wrong :P
Try again, with an actual argument ;)
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eh, pre or post faq 2010?
Because pre-faq 2010 space marines are crappy and destinied to lose anyway (I have terminated the complete Dark Angel chapter + successors in my battles vs Marines; using various races... Without a loss....)
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This was in 2007-2008. I've only played one game since then with them, and that was last week against Tyranids. Destroyed the entire fleet while taking only a single point of damage in return, but then he was relatively new.
My only loss was against FW Tau because of the scenario; I lost all my ordnance capabilities on the first turn, so had no defense against his masses. Otherwise, have defeated all-NC IN, two SM (one was all SC), one Eldar, and one Orks.
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What's your fleet and do you have an idea what your opponents used? For example: All NC Imperial Navy is dumb and should lose anyway.
Eldar being defeated by Marines = crappy Eldar player (Seriously, not doubting your skills but Eldar make toast of Marines). Eg unless you ran lots or wb escorts + a barge which can trick Eldar in certain surroundings/scenarios.
Marine vs Marine = fleet/skill dependant, so no issues there.
vs Orks it can be 50/50, depends a lot on the Ork fleet.
So, aside of the Eldar victory I can follow your 5-1 win record due opponents and their fleet selection (+ player skills).
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My list hasn't changed since I got the ships, though with the new stuff since the FAQ it just gets better ;)
BB - MotF, 2 rerolls
4 SC - squadroned
6 Gladius
3 Sword
Had firepower, BC, AC...the only thing lacking was torpedoes, but I never really liked them anyway.
The all-nova cannon IN player was fun. He deployed in his corner, I deployed behind two asteroid fields midfield. He just drifted forward, waiting, and I just burned retros, waiting. He finally got angry and moved forward, at which point he lost :D
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In pretty much all our playtests, all-nova got face pounded by all-torp repeatedly.
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Back in '08, weren't NC fleets stupid strong though? It was round three, and we both hadn't lost yet.
Still, good to know they've taken a hit lately ;)
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I can't remember when it was changed from guess distance.
I pretty much guess distances for a living, so yeah, fun times. They deserved the nerf bat, but they're no-longer worth a points premium over 6x torps AFAIC.
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If played properly yes, novas can be stupid strong. That said, you yourself stated he didnt play it properly ;). An all nova fleets @1500 ideally he was able to field 6 novas (7 if he only takes dominators). 3 Lunar with nova 2 Mars a Dominator and a Fleet Admiral 1380 leaving enough for some escorts/ light cruiser. Or with an Armageddon list 2 Mars 1 Armageddon 3 Lunar w/ nova Admiral 1495. Either way a straight pincer move around both sides of the asteroids should have smoked 4 sc and a bb. Have your short range ships lead around side 1 and engage then bring your battlecruisers around side 2 and hit them hard with nova/ lr lances while you close. The sr ships should be presenting broadsides at the point the space marines intercept them so the marines batteries are going to be rather ineffective. If they are squadroned (why wouldnt they be?) and even if the shortrange cruisers are braced the whole time to prevent most of the damage your looking at 11 to hit 6+ and 3 to hit 4+ on a closing, or 5/3 on an abeam for the gothic sector fleet (not counting whatever escort or light cruiser option taken) and 6/3 closing 3/3 abeam. That may not sound great for 3 to 4 ships but considering they are all braced and that sc only have 1 shield... thats still got the potential to cripple a ship a turn and should leave them safe enough for the battlecruisers to swing around behind the SM fleet and lay havoc on the rear.
Sorry bit off topic there, I am intrested in hearing what he did to get his rear handed to him so poorly!
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I can't remember when it was changed from guess distance.
I pretty much guess distances for a living, so yeah, fun times. They deserved the nerf bat, but they're no-longer worth a points premium over 6x torps AFAIC.
At least as far back as 02 I believe... maybe earlier 13 years :o of playing kinda blends togather, but iirc the scatter rules were in the annual... Nova Cannon (Imperial) Annual 2002, pg 45 yup took a minute to find it but its there, experimental at that point but obviously enough sore loosers had complained... what was I saying?
10 point preimum ala Dominator not the 20 points listed under lunar/ tyrant/ etc. 9 times out of 10 it is going to cause some havoc with the enemy as far as fleet movements etc, even if it doesnt do any damage.
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Sorry bit off topic there, I am intrested in hearing what he did to get his rear handed to him so poorly!
I'll make a new topic ;)