Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: Stormwind on February 05, 2012, 03:23:44 PM
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Hello all!
There's not an explicit "introduction" forum so I thought I'd stick my snout in here!
Over the last year I have very slowly accumulated a 40k force of Space Wolves - kind of as an occasional RL distraction rather than from any great thoughts about being a general.
I dug out a shambolic Epic Eldar force I had picked up for pennies about 8 years ago and only had a couple of games with and I have been dousing it in acetone and trying to make it brand new. I also splashed out on ~3000 points of Epic Space Marines - but I am seriously /shocked/ at how high the price is - compared with how awful the mold lines / quality is, especially on the rhino chassis units. But on the plus side - with some more Eldar bits - I will have TWO armies at the ready - so that if I can get someone interested in trying the system with me at a gaming club - I will be able to give them an army to try and we can swap sides etc.
So when I started getting antsy to try out Warmaster - I realised buying fresh from Games Workshop might not be worth the money, especially if the molds are falling to pieces. =-/
I've been looking through ebay - with kind of a fascination at Warmaster as this GW system that I have never tried and never EVEN SEEN in real life, it being launched in the years I had sworn off GW and my parents were breathing down my neck for not letting me do anything fun.
SO - I have been looking around ebay - even though I don't have an account yet - just watching at people snipe one another for various items - and I've not seen a "killer deal" on an army. Most people seem to be offering their stuff at pretty much the same as what GW would sell it at - claiming that every unit they have is "OOP" and "RARE" when they are demonstrably not.
When I came across this forum it seemed like a breath of fresh air with friendly knowledgeable people and a nice trade forum - so I signed up!
And right now - as a newbie - I would love to hear any and all advice on getting started - what would be a good idea and a good price to offer for an unpainted "starter army" or two armies with Fantasy figures? I've heard that Warmaster isn't much fun at low points values and really shines more at the 3000pt level, which seems to suggest I'd be paying quite a lot if I wanted 2 decent armies. =-/
Anyway, the floor is yours!
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First of all, welcome to the forum Stormwind,
warmaster scale (10mm) is a great size of miniatures that compromise quality and good looking on the table for huge battles. Also easy to paint (easier than 28mm). It had a quick and very effective set of rules, so I highly recommended it to you.
My advice is to start with two forces of 1000 points and try some battles to get into the rule set and slowly expand to 2000 or even 3000 points.
A very worthy and cheaper begining is printable units found here http://sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum/index.php?topic=4024.0 to start with, or to experiment with armies before buying the entire force.
You could found in ebay a reasonible price army, mostly empire, undead and high elves. You could also use 10mm figures from other manufacturers as Pendraken, Irregular, kallistra or Eureka, to build your own units. Cheaper but non GW quality.
Have fun, explore the rule set, enjoy painting and showing here your advances in your army, ask question around here about the rules and conquest the old world with your friends and your news armies!
regards and sorry for a non native english grammar,
Jchaos79
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Hello Chaos!
Thanks for your warm welcome and reply. I've been looking through all sorts of WM fantasy projects and suchlike over the past month and I've noticed you have a lot of activity in the community and are a big help with encouraging new players and linking people to good information sources (Such as sadly OOP miniatures)!
So it's very nice to meet you.
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I am currently looking at Azrael71's armies he has for sale. About £50 for 12 units of Empire in 3 1000 point parts. And I think he has High Elves which would probably be £40 a shot as they have fewer units per 1000 points.
I'm a bit gutted as there was a Skaven army of about 22 mint blisters on ebay going for only £75. I left it a few hours overnight and when I woke up it had been bought. But never mind! I'm sure these starter armies will put me in good stead! Very few things have a good "Buy It Now" price.
I'm probably goin to try and stick with GW units - for me the first pleasure is having a force I think "looks right", and with a few exceptions, I really like the GW model range. (The Dark Elf Hydra is my favourite unit!)
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Good news is that there is a local gaming club. It is mostly older guys than me playing things like World War 2 and Hail Caesar --- but when I mentioned Warmaster Fantasy several mentioned they had unassembled armies waiting for an excuse to be used! So - if I do get an army and start up something - perhaps I will have other people to play with! =-)
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There's something I can't quite figure out - are certain armies worth more than others even if they are NOT out of production? ie - Kislev is obviously super rare - but is an Orc or a Chaos army worth more, figure to figure, than an Empire army? I don't want to spend money on the "wrong army". =-X
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Nope, each army sells on GW's website for the same price (apart from Kislev).
The thing with Ebay is a lot of people go there first (think it is cheaper ::)) and on ebay certain armies come up a LOT with others rarely putting in an appearance.
Therefore the prices on eBay reflect this, also watch out for people selling stuff as OOP/rare when you can still buy them, pro-painted when they are most certainly not and selling strips/bases/units interchangeably.
I have had some bargains off of eBay, but also seen some outrageous auctions on there as well.
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While blister by blister, they're the same cost, the points costs are very different. Undead or Skaven for example will require roughly double the spend as High Elves or Empire, and Chaos is so points heavy that you only really need a dozen or so units for 2k points.
I hear you on the price thing, I'm currently in the process of buying an araby army bit by bit, and it's going to cost me a fortune. Araby is a latecomer to Warmaster, and though they're not OOP like Kislev, there aren't any deals around really. If you're interested in Empire, you might want to check out Azrael's bundle. A bud of mine got a high elf bundle off him, and even with shipping to Canada is was a substantial savings over buying new.
As for going with other miniatures, I hear you, I only use the GW ones myself, they're by far the best 10mm fantasy miniatures out there. It takes me so long to paint that it's pointless not to pay the premium on the best minis to have the best possible looking force on the table.
Great game, I strongly recommend you get into it.
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Thanks for the advice guys!
I never treat "OOP" and "Pro-Painted" seriously, don't worry on that count. I've scoured the entire currently available GW range so I'm pretty au fait with it all as it now stands.
I am gutted that the forest goblins and Kislev forces aren't there. Feral orcs would be a fab "barbarian" mini force to have about, and Kislev are an army I would love seeing the Fantasy treatment in 28mm in plastic - if for collecting and nothing else.
Thanks for explaining that, Amnar - I saw £120 of Araby go for something like £110 w/ packaging and I thought "Barely worth it"... But if it's such a latecomer - it makes sense that it's very hard to get for a cheaper price at all.
Another problem on ebay is how many things seem to lack the CORE units - so you can spend £100 and still be lacking 3 halberdiers or something!
Someone on Warseer in the Warmaster section suggested that the molds were getting very bad - and that we might see things vanish from SG. I really hope that isn't true. Even if buying them new doesn't have great quality, their presence means that people can't boost the price on ebay more than they do! lol.
The standard parcel rate in the UK is £4.41 - that's up to 2kg I think - which even as metal - should hopefully be 2 portions of Azrael's army, fingers crossed.
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The molds are getting pretty bad. Older blisters will have small amounts of flash, newly cast ones have tons of flash and require a lot of cleanup. No fun.... Fortunately, I'm sure the Araby molds are still in good order :)
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Damn - someone out there is buying up Skaven from ebay at lightning pace!
Another Skaven army - smaller than the other one but still desirable - just vanished after only minutes of being listed!
It's a shame as Skaven seems to be an interesting horde army and I'd hoped the get the earlier listing to fight against an Empire or an elite force like Dwarfs or Elves.
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Skaven was one of the armies I bought from GW as when they do go up on eBay they go for near enough full retail.
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Hi and welcome to the forums!
Id say go with the GW models, I have yet to see any real problem with the mold/miniatures as mine always were fine (at least good enough for 10mm).
Sometimes there are bargains on ebay (mostly undead&empire) but in the long run, I think it makes no difference. At least youll save the shipping costs for a large order with GW instead of paying for multiple shipments for single ebay auctions.
I have a "pro" painted dwarven army (roughly 5000P) at home from ebay, which was cheap compared to the original price. But to think that I have to strip the paint off every single unit before I can repaint them, is no encouraging thought. :) Especially if the "pro" painted them with some kind of car paint.
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Skaven was one of the armies I bought from GW as when they do go up on eBay they go for near enough full retail.
Really? Man now I am twice as gutted - these ones I saw were Buy It Now and basically half price - the only downside being a lack of core clan rat units.
Thanks for the welcome guys - I am checking ebay every day to see if a non-Empire force comes up too.
I'm not afraid to strip things - I have Fairy Power Spray and Acetone in reserve. =-P
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Skaven was one of the armies I bought from GW as when they do go up on eBay they go for near enough full retail.
Really? Man now I am twice as gutted - these ones I saw were Buy It Now and basically half price - the only downside being a lack of core clan rat units.
When looking at Skaven as your armychoice also realize that because the way the skaven are cast (front to back, like eg archers) rather then side2side (the standard infantry casts) you will also have a lot of leeway in "populating" your stands. In essence you could underpopulate the stands a bit and get 4 units from 3 blisters...
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Yes - I've noticed people glue their jezzails like that...
It's also why I posted a topic about possible "ruin" bitz as well - I rather like the idea of filling "gaps" with sprue bits or things to represent signposts etc.
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8) not just Jezail !
All the Skaven are cast F2B instead of S2S.
My skaven clanrats are a mix and mash of several different blisters, some include ratswarms, the ocasional Rat Ogre or warpflamethrowers on them. Assuming the various clans have a hierarchy of funds(availability) and thus the means to field more/less/better equiped troops.
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Well damn - now I really really wish I'd managed to get that ebay auction. What bad luck!
As the Imperial Officer said to Darth Vader, I'll have to redouble my efforts! :-X
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Skaven, Araby, Lizardmen, Vampire Counts and Daemons in particular don't come up much at all except the odd blister so I'd just bite the bullet and buy what you can afford from GW before the ranges all vanish one day.
High Elves, Chaos, Empire, Orcs and Tomb Kings in particular you should be able to get deals off e bay if you are willing to be patient.
The other armies are 'in between' and you might doa bit of both?
I'd just go for whatever army floats your boat, figure and background fluff wise.
Welcome to the best game GW has ever done!
Dave
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@David
Thanks! =-)
That's a shame as Skaven, Araby and Lizardmen are all ones I'd be interested in. I dislike the VC models and don't particularly like Demons so that's OK I guess, heh.
Undead seems to be vastly common on eBay compared with all other armies - Azrael's offer of Empire is good but there's an even better than half price offer on two undead armies right now I'm tempted by. I initially didn't like Undead - but that's because the models on the GW site are painted up from before they were properly distinguished as being Tomb Kings it seems. I reckon some Turquoise on the shields and some sandy basing might make them shine as a horde of undeath!
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I'd second David W's suggestion, if you only want GW mini's get them now!
Also you can wait for literally years to get hold of some of the OOP stuff on e-bay, unless youre prepared to pay big money(or get very lucky - it took me 3 years to get a unit of kislev bears for under £20) so if youre going the only GW route be prepared to have gaps in your armies (or an empty wallet)as i think almost all the armies have at least 1 OOP unit.
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I'd second David W's suggestion, if you only want GW mini's get them now!
Also you can wait for literally years to get hold of some of the OOP stuff on e-bay, unless youre prepared to pay big money(or get very lucky - it took me 3 years to get a unit of kislev bears for under £20) so if youre going the only GW route be prepared to have gaps in your armies (or an empty wallet)as i think almost all the armies have at least 1 OOP unit.
I've resigned myself to not having a Kislev army - or elite units like certain knights etc. But as far as I understood how things were - that was OK and the OOP units just represented elites for armies like Empire - which still has all it's units still in stock.
Is this true or did I miss something going through the Armies book? :-X
Are there really true "holes" in any of the armies? I'll be double-gutted if that's the case. =-/
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You're correct (as far as I know). The 'alt' units are just remnants from the happy days when variety was available (hence the three Knightly Orders units for Empire). Nice to have but not necessary. That said, I'm not sure about the Bretonnian Trebuchet, it's not a list I've played.
Having said this, there's a certain perverse pleasure to be had in tracking down the oop stuff and patience on ebay/buying large lots for a single rare unit mean it isn't always too expensive (though recently I've traded away a lot of mine in order to finish off my Kislev army so my armies are pretty much just the standard stuff).
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The trebuchet is out of print, but there are a couple of nice alternatives out there.
As for biting the bullet, I agree 100%, I wasn't going to risk the Araby line vanishing overnight so I bought all I would ever need, even though they now languish in my ever growing to paint pile :)
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Yeah sorry i wasnt really that clear, i dont think their are any OOP units that are strictly necessary other than the whole Kislev army and the Bret Trebuchet as pw says.
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You'd think that "makin gthings that we want to pay money for vanish overnight" was what GW was paid to do...
Judging by how the website has changed over the years and by how ForgeWorld make things like Epic vanish. =-<
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OK - I'm bidding on some High Elves and some Undead in the hopes that I can get a super cheap starter. Then if Azrael hasn't sold his Empire - that'd probably be the next step for me to have two armies to play with a close friend who can't commit to his own army money wise. :-X
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High Elves vs Empire is a 'classic' and reasonably balanced line up (with the edge going to the Elves).
Dave
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Oh, here's a quick question, wound markers - they're oop but not hugely valuable it seems - I really like the look of them - are they worth bidding on? They seem faction specific - and human ones the most common.
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I personally don't think they are worth the effort chasing them all down as they often appear in with army deals.
I have a fair few spare.
Plus the moulds for the ultra rare A counter.
Buy an empire army or two off me and I will throw a couple into the deal ;)
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In undead army, I put a dead marker to remember the unit risen with spell "rise corpses". Also have some markers from pendraken with a undead rising from a tomb with this purpose.
During sieges, I use undead marker of the appropiate army to remember the damage of the sections.
You could use a plastic card marker for all this sort of things, but undead markers are more beatifull if a pic of the battle is taken
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Whilst they look nice they are not very practical IMO, there are less attractive but more user friendly ways of denoting wounds
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I personally don't think they are worth the effort chasing them all down as they often appear in with army deals.
I have a fair few spare.
Plus the moulds for the ultra rare A counter.
Buy an empire army or two off me and I will throw a couple into the deal ;)
Thou art a naughty temptress! :-X
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When looking at Skaven as your armychoice also realize that because the way the skaven are cast (front to back, like eg archers) rather then side2side (the standard infantry casts) you will also have a lot of leeway in "populating" your stands. In essence you could underpopulate the stands a bit and get 4 units from 3 blisters...
Did you mean 3 units from 2 blisters Lex? They come with 18 pairs of units and assume you base 6 per stand. If you base 4 per stand though you can get 3 units per 2 blisters.
Matt and I found that you can do that with Dark Elf Crossbowmen and Witches too last Friday.
Can you actually do the same thing with Jezzails? From GW's picture they look like they only come with 12 infantry pairs (enough for only 4 pairs per base). Same goes for the Stormvermin and Skinks, do they actually come with 18 pairs per pack too?
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well.... I mixed and mashed. So my units have components of about all but the Stormvermin. The ratdensity per stand is also representative of the standing of the clan, so more well-to-to clans have a higher density of rats on the stands that actually carry weapons. And those would have Jezail or Ratogres too.
Clans of lesser standing only have 1 standard, mostly clubs/staves and are more prone to have ratswarms and warpflamethrowers. And those stands that have WFT will show the rest of the standsoccupants giving them wide berth !
So actualy .... 4 units / 3 blisters os about right 8)
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Gotcha, any idea on how my FtB pairs come in the Jezzails, Stormvermin or Skinks though? 12 or 18?
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Stuck in a hotel for the next couple of days, but OTTOMH I would say 6 per stand is likelier then 4.......
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Jezzails are 12 per pack, as are Gutter Runners. not sure about Stormvermin or Skinks.
For my part, despite the savings I prefer 6 pairs per base for Clanrats; 4 pairs per base doesn't get the horde feel, though it's fine for elite units.
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SG. I actualy have bases for Elites (Storm Vermin) which are crowded to overflowing, seeing that rats would find strength in numbers......
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definitely 5 strips per base look better than 4. this is how i base all my missile units
for skaven i have been wondering how 6 per base would look
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Hey guys - got another question - trying not to get ripped off on eBay:
I'm looking to stretch a partial high elf spearman unit slightly - could I use pieces like this to create a kind of custom "command strip" at the front of the unit? Are these actually GW models?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GW-Warhammer-Warmaster-High-Elf-Heavy-Bolter-Crew-Bit-/250864523569?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item3a68b0d931
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GW-Warhammer-Warmaster-High-Elf-Warrior-Bits-/260826996970?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item3cba8020ea
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Both 'yes'.
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Thanks for all the help guys! Sorry if I've not replied to everyone saying things - within a week and a bit I should have the bits to start up a high elf army!