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Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: Christopher on February 28, 2012, 06:38:57 AM

Title: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Christopher on February 28, 2012, 06:38:57 AM
Thought for the day - I am a man of modest means and skill.

I have only just started my Warmaster (Wm) experience in January, but already I feel like doing big things with this little hobby. I remember very little about the game system when it first came out in 2000 however I have to admit it seemed odd to be playing Warhammer at a smaller scale. That was along time ago. I am still fresh and have very much to learn about the hobby as a whole but it has been exciting so far.

I had mixed thoughts about joining WM so late in its life. I am saddened that I missed out on much of the excitement that a new game would have surely created and even more depressed knowing that I missed out on some of the very best models they released for the game, and not having to pay in souls to get the remnants on Ebay. :'(   I am also a little thankful for keeping away from Wm becuase I now get to experience a fresh take on a hobby I have come back to after many years away from the war gaming scene.


For the time being...

I would like to hear from you, the diehards, out there that continue to experience the game in all forms what the status of the hobby and the community as a whole looks like. I am well aware that the actual development of the game is now in a coma like state with further developments including models and rules are very unlikely to happen.  However, we still have access to everything we need to make full use of each official army list and with the exception of Kislev, (sorry guys) is still available from GW directly and some choice retailers.

What does the Wm scene in your town look like? Do you guys have dedicated club days or perhaps a small group of friends that congregate in the garage once a week? At least for now I live in a small town which is considered a "remote location" so hobby shops and major centers are not something I have access to. This leaves me with only the hobby aspect at the moment and no gaming.

The future...

The other day I noticed there is simply no Warmaster presence to be found on YouTube. Needless to say that is the largest source of free content and the ideal place for a struggling hobby to be showcased. I am exploring the possibility of using YouTube to share my Warmaster experience with others while hopefully encouraging people to either try the hobby or discreet gamers to be more active in the community.   

With that said I need to ask.  If done right do you think it could be entertaining/worth watching. Suggestions and criticisms are welcome.


~Chris




Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: David Wasilewski on February 28, 2012, 09:44:53 AM
Here's my opinion for what it's worth!

Fantastic game, simple but with great depth. Best game GW ever released. It didn't do well because the scale is 10mm and that doesn't appeal to kids as much as 28mm. As well as Epic, its the only GW games I play now. (but I hardly play Epic)

It's totally dead as far as GW are concerned. Its never coming back and the moulds are all on their last legs and probably won't be re tooled when they go. I'd buy as much as you can now as the entire range may suddenly disappear one day. There are other figure manufactorors out there though e.g. Kallistra, Pendraken etc.....

There are a few thriving pockets of warmaster in Europe, Canada, States, Australia etc but no mass market. Usually the way it goes is that one person buys a couple of armies, showcases a game with a pal and the local group is slowly converted. In my group, in Lancashire, UK there are about 6 of us with multiple armies. We tend to play BIG games (the record to date is 8K a side) on large tables, over a weekend or a couple of evenings. Warmaster works best when you use large armies (4K+ a side) in my humble opinion.

There's a thriving community that all play warmaster with local "house rules" and "house interpretations" but this isn't an issue unless you're going to a tournament or something. As long as you can secure a couple or more armies then many people become real fanatics. I have 6 very large armies (not all painted) and have been playing warmaster regularly now for about 6 years. I bought and played it when it was first released but it didn't catch our imaginations then. I think that was because we didn't play with enough terrain or with large enough forces.

Welcome to the game!!

Dave
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Stormwind on February 28, 2012, 10:27:08 AM
I'd love to see a Youtube modelling blog of finding and cleaning up and making a WM army!

I, too, am a newbie - mostly excited by a High Elf Army I bought on ebay.

AND the doorbell just rang and oh man, 26 blisters of High Elves are sitting on my bed! <3 <3 <3
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Lex on February 28, 2012, 10:41:12 AM
My oppinion hardly classifies, as I am obviously biased.

But, that said, there are a lot of things to be said for this game, and the new and improved versions of it. Dont be supprised to find a LOT of people have an army (or two) stashed away in their gaming closet/den and can be teased into bring these along and start playing the game given an opportunity. Once playing on a decently "clad" table and with armies around 2k most gamers get hooked    8)

For the size of the worldwide community there is plenty of basic stuff to go round, and even with GW dropping out we could find stock to bring in new players for some time to come. Besides IF  GW would drop out, there would be less issues with other suppliers filling in the need. In a pinch you could even easily work the game with 15 mm figures, and even with 25/28/30 should you not mind the rebasing. IMHO the rulessets that Rick has worked on since all still show the Warmaster DNA.

Most of the review work, the v2 armylists etc and even a basic inventory of areas that needed a rebash for WM v2 was already done by, and coordinate within the gaming community, with just very basic guidelines and support from GW (read at that moment Rick), so there is no reason why we could not proceed in that area, should we want too.

However, the current status quo works fine. As stated above, the various meta-gaming environments use slight adaptations of the basic WM engine, and as long as we have an "event" baseline of the rules we are fine.

The one things we could use more, is an exchange of players from the various groups on a more or less regular base, but that means organziing events (like the EuroGT). Waht also helps are excersizes like the play-on-forum that was done a couple of weeks ago.


Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: David Wasilewski on February 28, 2012, 10:53:30 AM
I dream of a Warmaster Fantasy second edition, properly bound book with glossy photos and tidied up rules (no cutting and pasting!) and balanced, up to date army lists of all the current variants all in one volume with contiguous page numbers and an index. I'd be willing to pay a lot for a book like that!

It would be a way of uniting the community, generating lots of interest from newbies and encouraging other manufacturors to fill in the gap left (foolishly) by GW if/when they drop this range of figures.

After GW drop the line (eventually), do you think they'd allow the fanatics to do this Lex? And do you think there would be any chance of luring Rick to lead it?

Dave
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: calmacil on February 28, 2012, 08:48:50 PM
...what the status of the hobby and the community as a whole looks like.

What does the Wm scene in your town look like? Do you guys have dedicated club days or perhaps a small group of friends that congregate in the garage once a week?
For me....... I used to play warhammer, we had one game of warmaster and that was it.... warmaster is so much better than WHFB  ;D Infact i've just sold my 12k O&G army on ebay.

The main driving force behind our group of 5 players is me, that 5 includes me as well. It's difficult for me to get games out of 3 of them. We all live in Nott'm uk. I think it's a good location for wargaming, we have the GW HQ gaming Halls as our local club, it's got 60 great tables, a bar next door, lots of atmosphere. But most of my opponents refuse to have a game there, they all work there, and don't want to be there after work.

Whenever we do have a game of warmaster it attracts lots of attention. We've got other GW people that want to join us in a campaign, but i doubt they will. I've got one friend that wants to buy a 3k painted empire army off me, so hopefully he'll have a few games. I hope we can get a regular campaign going. Ideally i'd like to be having a game every week, or every fortnight.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Geep on February 29, 2012, 04:21:29 AM
I'm all alone in my Warmaster collecting. I've got many armies ready to be made- all at 2000pts minimum. I have 4000pts of painted High Elves and am working on some Orcs to oppose them.

I've also been almost alone in my playing of 40k and fantasy in the local area, but it seems a new local gaming group is starting- I hope that with multiple painted armies I may be ble to generate WM interest.

I have seen one video recorded WM battle, but can't remember where I saw it. More would be great- I like seeing other people's strategies.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Big Red on February 29, 2012, 11:39:44 AM
Geep - that video was from punkscum and it's here on this forum (I think).  Scroll back on this sub-forum for it.

I'm lucky in that there are at least 3-4 local players close to me here in Oz - unfortunately Geep, you're just that little bit too far away to drop around for a quick game!!


Along with you Dave, I would be happy to pay for that new, shiney, updated rule book!

And I agree with all comments so far - WM is a fantastic game!!
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: jchaos79 on February 29, 2012, 01:47:14 PM
The vid is in the battle report suborum. And it is a great vid.

Also polish community has another vid
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: jchaos79 on February 29, 2012, 08:58:52 PM
"Thought for the day - I am a man of modest means and skill."
Me too, and that is perfect for 10mm games. Warmaster have my favourite engine of wargame but also to represent a battle. With some uncertanty, tactics and "the smog of battle". Simple, elegant, easy with no changing of rules every two years and the capacity of bring you a real fantasy experience and also a real battle simulation for historic. I use to play the systems (historical, medieval, bofa and fantasy) with their own rules and do not try to unify all together becasue they were written with an intention.

It is not too expensive, really fun to paint and easier than bigger scales. Little room for battle and little room also for storage. There is a wide variety of figures out there and GW keep almost all figures at sells.

I have some armies: egypt, hittite, orc and goblin, undead, chaos, empire, high elves, dwarves, french ordennance, italian condotta, almoraivd. Now raising a El cid army and expanding my almoravid to fantasy to get a fantasy araby.  -- It only takes time and presverence, not really skill to build the armies.

I used to game with some friends in Madrid (spain) in a club or at home. Last year I move to Vigo ( a city in the north of spain) and since then I have to drive 600Km if I want to make a game. So I am not playing too much but still painting and enjoying the hobby.

"For the time being..."

I was not in warmaster during the "golden age" when warmagazines came out with regularity, and came out to sell new blisters and new armies.

Today we have this forum of motivated players, a great activity in ebay, a lot of blogs, and houserules. So it is enough for me.

The future...

Well I guess, with Rick out of GW, and the game rights in GW. I could only see the future of fan community... but,... we have all we need, a great ruleset, a range of figures and a lot of imagination... we need more?         well I think YES. New people interested in to keep the game alive (and to find new opponents when you move to other city 8) ). 

I wonder if new player searchings a formula of what warmaster could give them now choose hail ceaser or other set of rules quite similar to warmaster?

hope my opinion helps
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: marell le fou on February 29, 2012, 09:52:22 PM
About future, i fear the WM range will one day suddenly disapear and that will be all from GW side.

After that, fortunately, there are enough stuff to let WM alive if fans hangs on.

I regret two things :

- There is no international forum for the game, so players are not regrouped.
- We have no media to directly show our battle reports to the Warhammer Battle player. Forums with a Battle Report section are frequently strictly ordered by game, what is a big mistake from my point of view. And so, players continue to read Battle Report of games they already play.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: calmacil on March 01, 2012, 12:44:50 AM
About future, i fear the WM range will one day suddenly disapear and that will be all from GW side.
It's a shame that GW wouldn't consider selling the rights of warmaster to a new company that would spring life into it again (maybe giving them rights to their masters/moulds/rules set) Similar to a company like Fantasy Flight games that has redone old GW games like Fury of Dracula, and many others (think they did warhammer roleplay)
One of the first things this new company could do is release a glossy new book like Dave mentions  ;D and then whatever they wanted. Maybe their own forum that discusses their future plans. I'm daydreaming, but it would be great.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Christopher on March 01, 2012, 03:24:29 AM
There have many good points mentioned here. It goes without saying that the diehards will still play and collect becuase they enjoy it. It also seems like everybody has accepted the games current state without holding there breath for "new stuff".  With that said it would be neat to have a more consolidated place for Warmaster players to congregate and share there battles and pictures but this forum is plenty adequate even if it is a little obscure.

I have thought a little more about the aforementioned YouTube channel and the more I think about the more I would like to do it. At the very least it would get me a little more familiar with video editing and perhaps exploring software and camera choices.  If I decided to go through with it what would people find interesting to watch?

I currently have access to the Rulebook and most of the magazines so I can definitely share my thoughts on the games system itself and introduce the various articles in the somewhat rare magazines to new players who are without. Painting and modeling should be something I am capable of doing as well, though hardly professionally.  :-[

Any body else have some ideas?
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Geep on March 01, 2012, 04:15:25 AM
Quote
I currently have access to the Rulebook and most of the magazines
This reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask for a while-
I should soon have completed the full collection of WM magazines- is it a good idea/ legal to scan these and have them posted on this forum, like the Fanatic magazines done by CyberShadow?

Quote
I'm lucky in that there are at least 3-4 local players close to me here in Oz - unfortunately Geep, you're just that little bit too far away to drop around for a quick game!!
Just a little bit too far... I think I'm actually closer to Marell le fou (who's i another country) than I am to you guys!
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Lex on March 01, 2012, 07:59:50 AM
Just a little bit too far... I think I'm actually closer to Marell le fou (who's i another country) than I am to you guys!
But you would need an aquatic army for the trip, or enough MOW   8)
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: spiritusXmachina on March 01, 2012, 10:27:43 AM
I have thought a little more about the aforementioned YouTube channel and the more I think about the more I would like to do it. At the very least it would get me a little more familiar with video editing and perhaps exploring software and camera choices.  If I decided to go through with it what would people find interesting to watch?

Great idea! I was having fantasies about a film about a game of Warmaster commented by two sports commentators while the game was going on. Most important would be the fun aspect, not too much mingling with detail rules but with the overall flow of the battle. I think it would be best to make a kind of public relation movie out of it which makes other gamers curious.

But back to topic:
Here in Austria in the golden age we had about 12-16 active players and some still find their way back to WM from time to time.
We are lucky to have a Tabletop Gaming Club the WoW/Keepers with regular Club Evenings where we can show our games and attract new gamers. So sometimes gamers lose their interest in WM but others step in again.
At the moment I'd say I have 4 other players I could challenge any time in the area around Vienna and another 2-3  if I'm willing to drive 1,5h to Styria. For a tournament there might be another 4-6 players I could activate at best, but that depends upon the tournament. I organised a silly "Vice Versa Tournament" a few weeks ago where players brought their own armylists and armies but played with the opponent's army (Winner was who won the most games against his own army). It was really fun but only attracted four players!
Most WM players around here also have interest in other Specialist Games or in alternative Games, some even find their way into the odd Warhammer Fantasy or 40k again :o, some even totally drop out of Tabletops. It's a steady coming and going.

Imo in the golden age the most devastating thing was the onkeeping rumours about GW dropping Warmaster. A lot of players stopped playing WM or did not have a go because of those rumours (and if it's true some GW employees at the shops around here were a bit responsible for that too). As it seems GW did'nt kill WM exactly but does'nt really keep it alive either (there's a saying here: too much to die not enough to live). And although there are positive side-effects too I miss the impulse of new official rules, official army lists, new official units. Because those were the times old players would have a skeptical look and new players were drawn into the game with excitement.

On the other hand there are tapletop games which did not change for centuries and still are played...

For me Warmaster still is the best Big Battle Tabletop game I know, although I also have a game of Mortheim or Blood Bowl too.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Stormwind on March 01, 2012, 11:22:33 AM
Quote
I currently have access to the Rulebook and most of the magazines
This reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask for a while-
I should soon have completed the full collection of WM magazines- is it a good idea/ legal to scan these and have them posted on this forum, like the Fanatic magazines done by CyberShadow?

That would be wonderful!

Though I would advise maybe putting them on Scribd.  GW care a whole bunch about people posting points values from current systems, but the fact that all the SG rules are up for free... On the official GW site!  Tells us that we're pretty free to post stuff from the non-core systems.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: marell le fou on March 01, 2012, 09:25:50 PM
Quote
I should soon have completed the full collection of WM magazines- is it a good idea/ legal to scan these and have them posted on this forum, like the Fanatic magazines done by CyberShadow?

Of course it's not legal. Now, nobody can stop you putting them on a dropbox account and grant volunteers an access to download them.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: azrael71 on March 01, 2012, 10:31:08 PM
If you look hard enough the magazines are already out there.
Apparently!
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Geep on March 02, 2012, 03:34:55 AM
Quote
Of course it's not legal.
The Fanatic magazines were once put up free on the internet by GW- if the same was ever done for the WM ones then I don't think GW'd have much issue with them being re-hosted.

I'll let people know if I get around to doing that- although Azrael71 is right in that they are probably already out there.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: spiritusXmachina on March 02, 2012, 07:38:10 AM
There's a difference. With the Fanatic Magazines there always was published an electronic version on the net. Warmaster Magazine only was published in paper!
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: azrael71 on March 02, 2012, 08:33:35 AM
Quote
Of course it's not legal.
The Fanatic magazines were once put up free on the internet by GW- if the same was ever done for the WM ones then I don't think GW'd have much issue with them being re-hosted.

I'll let people know if I get around to doing that- although Azrael71 is right in that they are probably already out there.

I am right and you just have to search for them.
But they are copyrighted material and therefore I bet GW WOULDN'T be ok about you posting them up on the Internet.
Just be cautious as a Cease & Desist letter/email can really ruin your day :)

I would also refrain from posting links to such material on this forum as it may well be in the terms and conditions of the site that no illegal content be posted (I know it is on other forums I visit and is set out by the site hosting company, not the moderators).
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Geep on March 02, 2012, 08:48:27 AM
No worries then- that's why I wanted to check. I would have considered this obvious but the Fanatic magazines are an unusual exception. Too bad GW wasn't/isn't willing to do the same for WM magazine.

Edit:
Just saw spiritusXmachina's post- I never knew that about the magazines. Makes the difference much clearer.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Stormwind on March 02, 2012, 11:41:36 AM
GW can shove it in a pipe and smoke it as far as I'm concerned.   We've spent so many thousands of pounds on its products over so many years - it owes us more than a little leeway on products it no longer stocks or sells.  But that's just my opinion.  Seen as all the armies and rules are on the website for free - I don't see why they'd care about Warmaster Magazine or the old Gothic fan mags etc. being put up online.  They can't profit from them so *shrugs.*
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: azrael71 on March 02, 2012, 12:17:15 PM
Can't see that argument standing up in a legal case, to be honest.
But everyone is free to do as they see fit, I am only trying to stop people getting into any potential bother.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: Stormwind on March 02, 2012, 03:22:50 PM
Sorry, that was a bit of a leftover rant energy, bad day. :-X

There was that crazy rash of cease and desists fired out last year - have they not calmed down a bit now?
Title: Re: Looking for opinions.
Post by: David Wasilewski on March 02, 2012, 05:04:57 PM
GW will protect it's IP very aggressively and to the death - let's face it, it's all they've got really!
I wouldn't risk messing with them.

Dave