Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: pw on May 15, 2012, 10:29:19 PM
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Hi All,
I'm wondering if there would be interest in an online Warmaster campaign amonst forum members?
I've got something in mind based on the Storm of Chaos background that uses a modified version of the campain rules that appear in the Warhammer Lustria Campaign supplement. If you've not seen the ruleset it's a map-based campaign that is nice and simple. To make it viable as an online campaign it would need (at least) a 'good' general and an Evil/Chaos general to make the decisions on the movement around the map while the games results would be generated by as many (or as few) players as could get games in.
That's probably enough for now, please let me know if you're up for it and if there's enough interest I'll tidy up the rules documents and get them uploaded for some preliminary discussion.
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Hey pw, How are you proposing doing this? I am curious.
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curious as well
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There is already one or two examples of how this could be run refferenced in the Forum !
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Hi All,
Much of how it would work depends on how many people are free to take part and what armies they have access to. Here's what I know so far!
1) It'll be an online campaign. It could be run here on a subforum or on a blog (I'd prefer here so that non-participants could see what's going on).
2) The background will be the Storm of Chaos (which is, to my mind, where Warmaster is ‘set’!) This means there will be two main sides (Empire and Chaos) and potentially some smaller independent forces if there are players who want to use them (for example: Grimgor’s Orcs, the late arriving Brettonians, Vampire Counts). From memory there are 5 chaos armies plus Belakor’s daemon army (plus the less essential but still evil Orcs, Skaven and Dark Elves), and a similar number of ‘good armies’ (Mainly Empire but including one dwarf force and potentially some Elf and Bret reinforcements plus the static force of the Vampire counts).
3) There will be a map with locations connected by 'routes of march', each route will have a difficulty rating that must be achieved for armies to move from one location to another. When armies are in the same location they fight.
4) The campaign will need two ‘generals’ to co-ordinate moves on this map.
5) When armies meet on the map table top battles will be played. These can be played by anyone taking part and not just the generals. So, for example, it might be that there are four battles taking place in a campaign turn, each one will need someone to play it. If we have more people playing games than there are battles on the map (or people have time to play more than once) we would take the average result across the games played to see who wins.
6) I’d also like to bring in some Man O War games to simulate the arrival of Chaos reinforcements/the movement of Empire troops by sea.
7) the game will be won by controlling a certain percentage of the locations on the map or by destroying the opponents armies.
As I see it this makes it a game of two levels. It’s got an overall game of manoeuvre on the map with moves dictated by generals (but potentially discussed secretly by players by PM on the forum). Then it has the WM gaming level where people play games. In effect the gaming level might be seen as a fun version of a dice roll that resolves the combats at the larger level.
I’ve got a much more detailed version of the rules that I worked up for a two-player version which I would amend depending on how many people are interested in playing (and what armies they have).
So, I suppose to make the questions more pointed:
1) Would you like to play?
2) Would you be interested in being a general?
3) Would you be interested in playing the games and reporting them?
4) What armies do you play and have access to as opponents?
5) How often would you be able to play a tabletop game (this to help work out how long a campaign turn would last in ‘real time’)
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Hi pw
this might help you, I posted it back in Feb.
How to have an interactive Campaign over the net
http://sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum/index.php?topic=4081.0 (http://sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum/index.php?topic=4081.0)
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Thanks Dog, lots of good stuff there to mine if this gets going.
So far the campaign is missing its key ingredient (players). To make the thing fun as an online experience I think it needs at least six keen participants, without that level of input it'll falter very quickly and will offer very little to anyone that can't be replicated in a small 'real life' campaign (I'd imagine that most of us could find someone to play a campaign with but perhaps couldn't find a large group to campaign with).
If people don't want to play (or do want to but can't commit the time) then that's absolutely fair enough and not entirely surprising. I'll wait a few more days to see if there's interest but I already suspect that this isn't a goer.
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I will give ot a go and try to bribe the Spawn into playing against me.
I will be of to NewFoundland in the last week of May (but if anyone sets me up a game there 8) and stuck in Utrecht for another Congres in the first week of June. Other then that I can wrangle at least a game a week
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Great idea pw!! I am afraid I can not be in, because I have to drive 600 km to make a game, so I can not afford continuity.... but I eagrly follow the results and enjoy the experience!
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@Lex - excellent news.
@Jchaos - then perhaps you could be one of the generals! That way you can play without having to drive anywhere? A real 'armchair general'!
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Thanks but I am afraid I am going to let the honour to others generals around here. Do not have much time lately and I do not like to fail in the middle of the story.
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That makes perfect sense to me, there's no point starting things if they're likely to fizzle out half way through.
So far I don't think that the SG Forum is really up for the campaign that I'm suggesting here. It could be that the community is too small (and I know that it's very few members are busy people) or it could be that the ideas I've put forward don't appeal. Perhaps a bit of both, either way I think that this is a non-starter at present. Better to discover that now that after the work (and play) had begun!
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Hey, hey, not so fast! Yes, I am interested and I could imagine that some players around my place could be aboard too...
Though I'm lacking the time to write more than short battle reports and to go through the rules thoroughly enough to play captain.
I'll talk about it with my mates at the club meeting tomorrow...
By the way we did a successful worldwide campaign two years ago: https://sites.google.com/site/plainofbattle/home
Was quite some fun. You can have a look as long google does not close it down for their renewal.
Greetings,
Gerald
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Hi there , as a newbie i would be interested . But at the moment have only a few figures / units painted . I would need to see if there was any other players in the York area . Give me two or three months then i will have at least two or three viable forces of 2,000pts . High Elves / chaos / and a choice of third ( empire , orc's , undead ).
We have a large wargaming club in York , just not sure who has access to WM .
Stuart
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We have at least four players around here who would like to take part. All of us have Chaos or Empire or Bretonnian armies (one asked if he'd be allowed to play Dark Elves...).
Greetings,
Gerald
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OK all (five of you!). It's on, smaller and less ambitious is the way forward!
I propose a scaled back version of the campaign with just two armies per side and a fairly small map (meaning rapid movement and a maximum of four battles per campaign turn) and I've got some ideas that will allow more flexibility in terms of what armies can participate.
I'll do some tinkering with the rules and post again in a few days for comment. So far I'm planning to strip out all of the complicated bits (unit bonuses etc) and will make them optional add ons for the individual games rather than core to the game. I've also think that the most practical way to organise the overall movement of armies might be for me to play the Empire and to co-opt a real-life friend (I have a couple in mind) to play the Chaos general. This way I can keep a tight control on the book-keeping side and we can get the gaming side done on here to decide how things go. But, if someone on here fancies taking on either side that'd be cool too.
In the meantime, I've just bought a copy of Mighty Empires to get the map sorted and have appalled my wife by building a map of the Empire on the living room floor. Now I'd best make some counters and get the whole thing painted.
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Great. We're waiting...
And maybe there are some others who would like to take part...
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Possibly a little difficult for me , but yes if it's possible count me in to .
Stuart
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Hi All,
The map is built, the rules are almost ready and I think I've got the thing simplified to a point where it will work ok online. I'll aim to have it posted up here by the weekend (it'd have been done by now but one of my boys has been ill and my attention has been elsewhere). More soon I promise!
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Ok all, here's version one of the rules I thought we might use. In actual fact, it's not necessary for anyone but the two generals (Archaon and Franz) to know these rules but I thought it might make it easier (and more fun) for anyone who is interested to follow what's going on on the campaign map each turn.
Beyond the stuff that follows, here's how things would work for those who aren't generals.
1) The generals play out the map phase and announce the battles that occur that campaign turn (between 0 and 2).
2) Players volunteer to play each battle. It will be necessary to have one game of WM played for each battle on the board but if more players are available then even better, we can average the results.
3) Players report results and post any battle reports they fancy (the more the merrier).
4) The generals complete the end phase of the campaign turn.
REPEAT....
So, here's the detailed bit (feel free to offer suggestions etc):
STORM OF CHAOS CAMPAIGN RULES
Deploying for battle
The Chaos and Empire forces are each represented by two armies, these are initially deployed at their starting territories as listed in the ‘Armies’ section. Armies are designed before each campaign turn begins to a points value agreed with the opponent. The starting territories are automatically captured.
The campaign turn
1. Generate campaign points.
D3 +1 per player. CPs are not carried over from turn to turn.
2. Rebuild Defeated or Broken armies.
Armies that are defeated must spend 1 CP to return to full fighting readiness. Armies that are Broken must spend 2 CP.
3. Spend campaign points.
Roll a D6 each campaign turn, the highest goes first. Re-roll ties.
Players take it in turn to spend ONE campaign point, resolving any movement or actions before moving onto the next player. Continue until all points players wish to use are spent. Note that some actions require multiple campaign points to complete, these actions may be carried over across multiple campaign turns. Campaign points can be used for the following actions:
Moving armies: it costs 1CP to move from one territory to another. The player must then equal or exceed the Difficulty level of the route proposed. If the roll is failed the army remains stationary but the CP is lost. Defeated or Broken armies may not move. If a territory is unclaimed or belongs to you, your armies may move onwards freely, but if it belongs to the enemy, you must capture it before you can move further.
Fortifying castles: it costs 2CP to raise a castle’s defence value by one point. The maximum defence value of a castle is 3.
Fortifying settlements: it costs 1 CP to raise a settlement’s defence value by one point. The maximum defence value of a settlement (mining village, farming village, market town, large town, major city) is 2.
Building Roads: it costs 2CP to improve a reduce the difficulty level of a route of march from any territory you control by 1 (to a minimum of 2).
Espionage: Expend 3 CP to roll once on the following chart:
D6 Result
1 Spy captured. Enemy gets +1 CP next campaign turn.
2-3 Misinformation planted. Enemy -1 CP next campaign turn.
4-5 Enemy tricked. You may immediately use 1 of his CPs to move one of his armies in the next campaign turn.
6 Assassin. Choose one hero in the enemy’s armies that will play no part in battles fought during this campaign turn.
4. Resolve battles.
Any opposing armies that end the campaign turn in the same territory must fight (play a game of Warmaster).
Capturing territories
Unclaimed/Undefended territories
Territories with a Defence Value of 0 are automatically captured if an army finishes its campaign turn on them but not if it merely moves through them to get to another territory. Any benefits accrued from captured territories will apply in the following campaign turn.
Enemy/Defended Territories without an army
Enemy territories without an army or unclaimed territories with a Defence Value greater than 0 are only captured by the expenditure of a number of Campaign Points equal to the territory’s Defence Value. You can combine this with movement to get to the territory and move again. So, for example, if you had 3 CP, you could move to a fortified mining village (DV1), then when your turn to act came around again you could spend 1 CP to capture it, and later spend your last CP to move on to another territory.
Enemy territories with an army
If there is an enemy army in a territory you must play a game of Warmaster to claim it in the resolve battles phase. Battles are fought in the order in which they were initiated. The winner captures the territory, the loser’s army is classed as Defeated (or Broken) and must retreat. In the case of a draw, the army that moved into the territory last will retreat in good order to the closest friendly or unclaimed territory that can support it.
Once a territory is claimed
Whenever a territory with a Defence Value greater than 0 is captured reduce its Defence Value by 1 (to a minimum of 0).
Retreating armiesArmies beaten in the Resolve Battles Phase will attempt to retreat in good order to the closest friendly or unclaimed territory that can support it, rolling to equal/beat the route of march as normal. A retreating army that fails the route of march roll, or which cannot retreat to such a territory will retreat by the shortest route to a friendly or unclaimed territory but is now considered to be Broken. If a retreating army must enter a friendly territory that contains an enemy army then they are Broken and will retreat to the next nearest friendly/unclaimed territory.
Defeated and Broken armiesDefeated/Broken armies cannot move or claim territories. If you cannot rebuild the army in the Rebuild Armies Phase then they remain Defeated/Broken for the remainder of the campaign turn. If a Broken/Defeated army is attacked then it will fight the opposing army. For this battle, the defending army has half the points value of the attacking army but cannot break unless the general is killed and does not suffer any command penalties for casualties. Any result other than a win results in the destruction of the army. If the army wins then it is immediately returned to full fighting strength without the expenditure of campaign points.
Winning the Campaign
The winner of the campaign is the player who, at the end of any campaign turn, has captured 75% of the territories on the map (rounding up) or the player who destroys both of his opponent’s armies (whichever comes first).
For the Chaos player this represents the destruction of the Empire, for the Empire player it represents the unification of the Empire’s divided states against the Chaos incursion.
ARMIES
Each side has two forces:
The Swords of Chaos (starting territory: Erengrad)
Vardek Crom’s Kurgan Horde (starting territory: Karak-Kadrin)
The Army of Reikland (starting territory: Altdorf)
Boris Todbringer’s Middenlanders (starting territory: Middenland)
ALLIED/INDEPENDENT FORCES
One battle per campaign turn a battle may be played using an allied force in place of the usual Chaos/Empire army.
Chaos Allies:
Belakor’s Daemon Horde
Skaven
Dark Elves
Grimgor’s ‘Ardboyz
Empire (The Alliance of Light)
Dwarfs (Ungrim Ironfist’s Slayers of Karak Kadrin)
Brettonians
High Elves
Kislev
MAP AND TERRITORIES
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/Levinas/Warmaster/campaignmap.jpg)
Routes of march are indicated in red on the map above.
Altdorf. DV1.
Two allied armies may occupy Altdorf at the same time.
At the beginning of each campaign turn roll a D6. On a 4+ add +1 to your campaign total.
Due to the proximity of the Colleges of Magic, when an Empire army is attacked at Altdorf (and only at this location) it may take have an extra wizard at no extra points cost. This wizard does not count towards the maximum allocation of wizards as specified by the points value of the army. If the Empire have lost control of Altdorf they may not claim this bonus.
Drakenhof Castle. DV2
If you control this territory the maximum number of wizards (or Runesmiths) that you are allowed to take is increased by one. These extra wizards may not be given any extra equipment.
Erengrad DV0
Two allied armies may occupy Erengrad at the same time.
At the beginning of each campaign turn roll a D6. On a 4+ ad +1 to your campaign total.
Hel Fenn. DV0.
Karak Kadrin. DV2
Ownership of this Dwarven hold allows the owning player to give one unit in one of their armies a magic weapon at no points cost.
Kislev DV1
Marienburg. DV0
Major city: At the beginning of each campaign turn roll a D6; on a roll of 4, 5, or 6 add +1 to your Campaign Point total.
Mercenary Bazaar: the player that controls Marienburg may add any one unit from the ‘Dogs of War’ army list to their army paying the appropriate cost.
Middenheim. DV4.
Armies that do not control this territory may not move through this territory in a single campaign turn unless the territory is captured.
Armies that are defeated or broken that fall back to Middenheim will not need to spend any campaign points on the roll of a 3+ on 1D6 in the rebuild armies phase.
The fortress of Middenheim may not be fortified except to bring it back up to its original strength.
Middle Mountains. DV0.
Mountain pass. Armies may move through this mountain pass without spending a campaign point on the roll of 4+ on one D6 if it is unclaimed or if it belongs to their territory. They must still equal or better the difficulty level of the route of march. Note that this is in effect a ‘free move’ so a player could move his army from the pass and then move again by using a campaign point before any other player gets to act.
Nuln DV1
An army that controls Nuln (Chaos or Empire) may select a unit of Empire Cannons free of charge when attacked at this location. This free unit is in addition to the usual allowance for Cannons.
Praag DV1
Talabheim. DV1
Armies may move from Talabheim without spending a campaign point if it is uncontrolled or if it is under their own control on the roll of a 2+ on a D6. They must still pass the difficulty level of the route of march. Note that this is in effect a ‘free move’ so a player could move his army from the pass and then move again by using a campaign point before any other player gets to act.
Vanhaldenschlosse DV0
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Oh, and the map is ready, I've constructed a very, erm, 'abstract' map of the Empire using Mighty Empire tiles. The campaign results will be shown on there. As soon as I find my camera lead I'll post a pic.
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seems great and very fun rules. Good work.
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Here's a picture of the map as promised (click it and it gets bigger!):
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/Levinas/Warmaster/th_DSC05337.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/Levinas/Warmaster/?action=view¤t=DSC05337.jpg)
So, who is interested in playing a few games and reporting them? If you want to declare yourselves for a side so much the better.
Don't forget, all this involves is (at a minimum) playing the odd game and reporting results (battle reports great, results enough).
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Looks good pw. I can not take part as I have no opponetes around, but I will watch and be inspired.
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are you in the north of Spain Colonel kane?
(I have no known players around too) but I will keep trying...
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Hi All, I can't think of a good way to say this (online discussion without the human side of communication is a little awkward sometimes). Anyway, here goes...
The lack of any response to the rules/map (which follows a very minimal initial interest in the campaign) suggests to me that taking this campaign any further will be a waste of time and energy (obviously jchaos and Col Kane are exceptions but neither can take part!). As I see it, the only way that such a thing could be entertaining would be for people to actively participate, playing games, telling stories, showing pictures, making up rules for special characters, and generally getting carried away with the geek-fest. In the absence of this kiond of geek-vibe, I think it's a good idea to draw a line under this for now.
Please don't think that I'm moaning/cross/looking for sympathy/trying to draw people in to play. I appreciate that people are busy and that this perhaps isn't the sort of thing to catch the imagination. Feel free to try out/adapt the rules (they're based very closely on the Lustria Campaign rules and I think they're really neat), I'd love to have some feedback on them at some point. I expect I'll try playing this (very slowly) with some real-life gamers at some point and if I do I'll share the results here.
So, over to someone else!
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pw If I may interject, here in the U.S we just had a holiday, Memorial Day, so some of your 'players' may have been well otgherwise engaged over this weekend, so give em a chance to get over the hangover and digest the rules. I would hate to see this die so quickly.
jchoas no I live in the U.S in Kansas, about 2 hours east of Wichita KS about 2 hours west of Joplin (Which you may have heard of last year when a tornado hit it.) aboput 2 hours from Tulsa OK, and about 2 1/2 hours from Kansas City. so very close to the middle of nowhere in most peoples eyes.
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Thanks for the heads up, as I say, this can always be ressurected in the future if it looks like a goer.
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:( I'm still there and interested. Problem is I have to find the time to study the rules and pass the information on to my fellow players as most of them are not active in this forum. So a time frame of three days is way too short.
What I would have needed is:
1) At the start of the campaign about two weeks to get accustomed to the rules.
2) Announcement of turn
3) Which armies have to play
4) Which scenario has to be played
5) Then I would have needed a time frame of 3-4 weeks until battle results would have been reported
Sorry you have decided that way but I accept your decision.
Greetings,
Gerald
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Hi Gerald, thanks for this.
I can understand the delay etc and my decision (not taken lightly as I really wanted this to work) is based on the fact that the fun-factor of an online campaign isn't something that just two or three forum members can generate easily so the speed of response isn't the key factor, rather it's the volume of response. I imagined this as a community project really, telling stories, trying out scenarios/new characters etc, and generally showing off our toys. At present I don't think that this forum has quite enough active players to make this possible (or not enough who are 'into it' enough to make this work in the way I'd imagined).
I'll be back though, hopefully with something more enticing. The threads on the events forum are starting to look exciting!
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Too bad, as one of the players that Gerald talked about, I was looking forward to write some fluff stories for the battles. :(
Does someone have contact to the legendary Polish players, who are so numerous and active? Maybe thell join in.
There also should be some Germans? Where my Germans at? :)
And since there arent going to be international matchups even the french could join with their WM-A type of ruleset.
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The idea really was that anyone could join in with an absolute minimum of effort, so yes, French, German, Polish, everyone everywhere could join in very easily. Perhaps one problem is that the rules that add this flexibility are also putting people off? With only two generals, it could be said that the remainder of the players end up *only* resolving battles and perhaps this isn't engaging?
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@Polish Community: Just looked at their forum. Seems there is some traffic there although I do not understand a word. Getlord is one of the main players there.
@German Community: Docdom is quite active around here. Maybe he knows more.
@French: Seems to me they prefer to do their own stuff. But would be great if they would take part.
@Britains: There were two or three active WM Communities 1.5 yrs ago. Wasilewsky, Azrael...
But I see your point, pw.
What I did 2 years ago when organising the international campaign. I had a community big enough around my place that I would have done the campaign anyway. Haven't you got some players? Two communities would be a start.
And my experience with that campaign was that most people did'nt bother with the rules details. They just wanted to know how their own empire did and how their next battle should be played. Of 8 players per empire maybe 2 wanted to go deeper into the rules - not more.
But at the same time the french did a very detailed campaign with extra character models and rules and so on. Was quite impressing too.
Greetings,
Gerald
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@German Community: Docdom is quite active around here. Maybe he knows more.
I may be active in this forum, but WM is pretty much dead in my area. :'(
But great job with your campaign initiative! Too bad there was only little response.
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I'm still active. I'm the main 'driver' for warmaster in my group, in the North West of England. At the moment, the group still plays a lot of warmaster but they tend to be large, "one off" games, rather than campaigns. There is a bit or a resurgance of WHFB in the group and SAGA, hence why at the moment there is no interest in joining in another international warmaster campaign.
Give it another year and I'll see if I can steer the group back to a massive warmaster campaign like we did last year.
Dave
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David....
did you guys already try Fantasy Saga ?? it is great fun ?!
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I'm still active. I'm the main 'driver' for warmaster in my group, in the North West of England. At the moment, the group still plays a lot of warmaster but they tend to be large, "one off" games, rather than campaigns. There is a bit or a resurgance of WHFB in the group and SAGA, hence why at the moment there is no interest in joining in another international warmaster campaign.
Give it another year and I'll see if I can steer the group back to a massive warmaster campaign like we did last year.
Dave
Is there anywhere in the net to read your saga or to see your battle results?
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We're a bunch of older blokes and most of us either aren't that technically savvy, or the ones that are don't seem to be interested in 'showcasing' what we do. I suppose its a combination of being lazy and of being part of a very large, well established group (10+ players) that doesn't need any new blood and which meets up round at each others houses rather than having a formal 'club.' E.g. most friday nights (gaming night) there are normally at least two games going on to choose from at different houses.
Fantasy SAGA, no never heard of that one Lex? A couple of the lads bought the Tomahawks and something? SAGS style rules recently at a wargaming show for French Quebec/Indian Wars style SAGA gaming. I haven't bought anything other than more warmaster for a long time recently, mainly because I'm scared of it all vanishing sometime soon.
Adler Napoleonics (6/10mm scale) using my own set of rules are the only non warmaster I'm currently indulging in personally.
Dave
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I was talking about the Saga game from Gripping Beast/Tomahawk which lends itself to fantasy games as well ! Just match your favoured warband in fantasy to one of the 8 published Saga warbands and off you are !!
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SAGA.... Ooooh, new game to look at.... :)
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I picked up Sage and Hail Ceasar! at Salute (or rather had my DILTB pick them up). Saga mostly for use with my (extensive) 28mm collection (instead of WHFB v???) and Hail C! because Rick wrote ir (and we already discussed the feasibility to use it with Warmaster Armies).
I am really happy with the way Saga plays and all allows me to (re)use all my fantasy stuff.
Hail C! will need extensive play to determine if I would switch........