Specialist Arms Forum
Specialist Games General Discussion => Trades & Services => Topic started by: marell le fou on August 03, 2012, 07:14:54 AM
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Bewar, this seller is selling again and again the same set months after months.
We had already sighted him and warned him without result (he did not answer to our questions). He sells items costing between 50 and 120 USD systematicaly and fools us.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warmaster-HIGH-ELF-DRAGON-PRINCES-very-rare-/251121889416?
Please, report its items. I have done it myself.
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How can you be sure they are recasts?
I recall you mentioning this guy in the past, but I do not recall seeing any actual evidence!
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I think we see him only selling the same stuff over and over again. And only ever the rare/OOP/LE stuff.
And from the pictures (which are always the same) it is hard to see the state of the actual "lot"
But I agree that we cant call Wolf because we see some teeth.
If we CAN figure out who bought from him before, we could ask to compare quality
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This topic came up a few months ago on the old forum - I believe someone had bought a unit (goblin riders I think?), and the conclusion was that if it was a recast - it was one indistinguishable from a GW cast.
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That is what I thought was the outcome.
My stance on this last time was if the quality is similar and it provides OOP models to the community, where is the harm.
It is the buyers prerogative to pay the high prices, this guy puts them up cheap and the market dictates the price :)
GW have been approached a number of times to re-release these and even been advised to up their prices on them (double normal pack price) but nothing, no support for the community and no cash in their pockets.
I have to be honest if I was sat on a load of these OOP models I would drip feed them out to buyers (so as not to lower prices) and if anyone started pestering me with mails in regards their legality, I would not stay quiet (as this guy chooses to) I would send a very coarsely worded response to the requester.
If you have doubts, report him, but let's be honest there are dodgy practices that go on, on eBay and other forums and no one bats an eyelid. Sounds to me just like a case of sour grapes. You also have to be wary that by broadcasting the fact that this guy is recasting stuff, if it turns out he isn't, you could be looking at a very nice legal action against you.
RANT OVER 8)
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I think we see him only selling the same stuff over and over again. And only ever the rare/OOP/LE stuff.
And from the pictures (which are always the same) it is hard to see the state of the actual "lot"
But I agree that we cant call Wolf because we see some teeth.
If we CAN figure out who bought from him before, we could ask to compare quality
Or order a unit and if they are recast, report him to ebay, get your money back, he goes out of business, you end up with a recast unit of Dragon Princes.
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I agree this situation is strange, and even suspicious, but I am afraid evidences are needed before assuming those figures are recasts.
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Or order a unit and if they are recast, report him to ebay, get your money back, he goes out of business, you end up with a recast unit of Dragon Princes.
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Even if they are recasts, how can anyone prove to ebay this guy made the recast? he can simply say "I bought them second hand" :(
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We had already said we would never have a perfect proof.
If this seller had at least answered us, discussed the point with us, we could have had a deal. By refusing to even answer our questions and legitimate doubts, he has prooved he is guilty and he does not * care.
I have decided to act. You, guys, do what you want.
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Language, please.
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Sorry :)
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Where is the proof?
If he refuses to comment, that is not admission of guilt!
Really there are a lot more important things to worry about than toy soldiers.
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I'll chime in with my two cents. The first OOP stuff I bought was from this guy months ago. (January maybe?) It is a recast as far as I can tell as they were in fairly poor condition compared to regular WM stuff I had. I was unsure at first but after I got my hands on some New in package stuff I could tell the difference side by side.
Having said that I am glad he does it. He supplies something we all moan about not having and does a decent job at it. (Not a perfect job mind you) Most people will not care about the modest imperfections in there models especially if they are just casual gamers. That allows us here in the know, the ability to grab some Real models to satisfy our lust for perfection for a tad cheaper as he lessens the demand slightly.
Though I can tell the difference, the average person, (Not visiting this forum) will have a hard time noticing and will just be happy they were able to get a centerpiece army unit. 8)
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For my part, i no problem in selling recasts... It allows people to play with units they could not buy otherwise.
But then, you sell the item as a recast. An other price, an other title.
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Everyone's right!
Marell is right to point out he (probably/may!) be selling mis labelled "self cast" stuff, which if this is the case, is naughty. However, at the same time the other are right that if the quality is good, its perhaps the only way some people can get hold of these oop units now! and hey, we are only talking ultra niche market toy soldiers.
If anyone's really upset and wants to stop him, then reporting him to GW rather than to e bay is probably the best way forward.
On balance, I won't be reporting him, but at the same time, I won't be buying anything else from him.
Dave
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I'll chime in with my two cents. The first OOP stuff I bought was from this guy months ago. (January maybe?) It is a recast as far as I can tell as they were in fairly poor condition compared to regular WM stuff I had. I was unsure at first but after I got my hands on some New in package stuff I could tell the difference side by side.
Having said that I am glad he does it. He supplies something we all moan about not having and does a decent job at it. (Not a perfect job mind you) Most people will not care about the modest imperfections in there models especially if they are just casual gamers. That allows us here in the know, the ability to grab some Real models to satisfy our lust for perfection for a tad cheaper as he lessens the demand slightly.
Though I can tell the difference, the average person, (Not visiting this forum) will have a hard time noticing and will just be happy they were able to get a centerpiece army unit. 8)
Which unit did you buy?
I was looking at the photo of the dragon princes and it looked like his mold had decayed for the speartips...
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It is obvious this is a picture of original GW Dragon Princes - you may notice the "tendrils" from air vents (or he uses a centrifugal casting that I suppose not very likely).But the picture on the site and the stuf you get may vary 8)
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Correct I did purchase his Dragon princes, however, I just realized that my other unit of dragon princes was purchased assembled prior to purchase and not NIP like previously stated so I can no longer critique the ones I have purchased from this guy from an objective standpoint. For all I know they also came from him in days past and were resold onto me. :P They actually look pretty good to be honest I can clearly see the horses eye lids....
Provided I did not have doubles or triples of the High elf alt units I would buy again if the price was reasonable. Last time I bought DP's mind you the price got to be pretty outrageous.
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I was extremely lucky to get hold of 3 units of Phoenix Guard and 2 of swordsmasters a few months back - but if I could get hold of dragon princes for something like £10 rather than £40 that would a dream come true. ;-P
Mind you I've got so much to paint I shouldn't whine!
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This guy is back at it. This time he has swordmasters and dragon princes for sale.
Time of Madness
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If the quality is excellent, then i have no issue. Only people that do seem to be those that over value their own minis.
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I have just reported the items as recasts again.
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If the quality is excellent, then i have no issue. Only people that do seem to be those that over value their own minis.
I agree.
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Back with this affair.
As i was increasing my data about ebay sells on warmaster range, i took some few time to study the feedbacks of this guy, karawan99.
Here are some few studies i wanted you to know.
All his feedbacks as a seller are from warmaster oop stuff we suspect to be recast.
He bought one spider rider only once, on August 2008.
He began to sell warmaster oop on Sept 2011.
Here are his accomplishments.
(http://data8.blog.de/media/209/6675209_a480c35b3b_l.jpeg)
Yes, more than 2000 $ in one year, with 31 sells of only 7 different types of units. Mainly... Dragon Princes. One of the very most expensive unit.
And here is, guys, what it costed us... All his sells did not had feedbacks, but i could retrieve those 25 ones :
(http://data8.blog.de/media/174/6675174_4f00f76c2b_l.jpeg)
To end this, here is the comparison between Karawan activity and Others activity. I mean any seller.
(http://data8.blog.de/media/213/6675213_19d562c7dd_l.jpeg)
Since September 2011, he sold 31 of those 7 units over a total of 76. Nearly half the quantity we saw on ebay on the last 12 months.
Oh, by the way, he just bought one unit of Knights of the White Wolf...
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Some precisions added.
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I don't understand what you are trying to achieve. As stated before, if the quality is good and there is nowhere else to get it, then i personally do not have an issue.
At the end of the day, more models out there encouraging people to play is a good thing.
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I guess his main preoccupation is not to help players, otherwise he would sell those items as reproductions.
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More units is fine, but those same units WILL get traded between community members in later stages. I dont mind the availability, but I would like a simple statement that they ARE in fact recast...
For the record, several members have been "approached" to provide other hard to get units by someone using the same IPadres....
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So its official, I spent the most money on (dodgy) oop warmaster last year! :o
The figures look good to me and no one can tell once they are cleaned up, painted and based so I'm not bothered!
Saying that you're right - he should be accurately labelling his stuff.
They're an enterprising bunch, those poles!
David
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Seems I am on the podium as well. :o
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We are all i suppose.
As said, the figs are great, that at least is a good new. I bought Dragon Princes last year that revealed to be poor recasts.
As we already said, i like the idea of recasting, if the figs have a clear mark making them particular. A hole on the base or someting like that. Does not have to change the fig. I would give some figs to be reproduced with pleasure myself, to allow more quantities for gamers if a vast plan was proposed.
But selling recasts as originals to make money and lower the value of the figs we have... Definitely no.
For the record, several members have been "approached" to provide other hard to get units by someone using the same IPadres....
And that is really interesting...
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Hi there,
not wishing to irk any body or any thing but...
Why not lending Dwarf Ironbreakers to a skilled recaster?
:-X
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Why not lending Dwarf Ironbreakers to a skilled recaster?
Because the site and board respects GWs IP. Its a lot more complicated than 'I cant find miniature x and I want some'.
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he just bought one unit of Knights of the White Wolf...
And guess who is selling Knights of the White wolf now ?
Figs full of barbs and clearly not corresponding to any KotWW i have ever seen.
Please, report him on ebay as a recaster.
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Just looks like flashing to me.
That is what comes on all models. Have you ever seen how GW send out these models?
Again does not prove he is recasting. You are turning this into a bit of a witch hunt :(
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He just bought one unit of those knights few weeks ago... And now, he would resell it ? With all the doubts we have against him ?
We will see if he sells some others in the next few month. As said, i have no more doubts for a long time now.
And yes, i will continue to charge him. About your actions to support him, i will just say there are no worst blinded men than those who don't want to see.
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I don't support this guy, I have never bought an item off him.
But the people who have, have left positive feedback on eBay. If they were such poor 'copies' if that is what they are then why don't the people who pay way over the odds for the items in question complain, if they are 'copies'?
You have NO actual evidence.
Just circumstantial evidence.
As for being blind... I have had these models and sold them all on at a profit, I say the kid is providing rare models to a community that struggles to find them as the owner refuses to re-release them. If people want to pay 10 to 20 times what they originally cost then that is THEIR choice.
If only there weren't so many collectors out there, who buy the rare stuff and then just keep it and hope it will increase in value, the actual players who want these units to finish their forces would not have to pay exorbitant and over inflated prices.
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If only there weren't so many collectors out there, who buy the rare stuff and then just keep it and hope it will increase in value, the actual players who want these units to finish their forces would not have to pay exorbitant and over inflated prices.
Agree
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If only there weren't so many collectors out there, who buy the rare stuff and then just keep it and hope it will increase in value, the actual players who want these units to finish their forces would not have to pay exorbitant and over inflated prices.
Agree
+1
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And this is a good reason to sell copies as originals ?
As i already said, if he would sell them as recasts, it would be a perfect solution for everybody, except him, for prices would go down, as you say. He makes money by duping us. No more and no less.
Not every collectors hope the value of there collection will increase. For my part, i'm happy i have approx all the stuff i wanted. I seldom bid on anything today. Like the fw others collectors i know, who are now in the same situation.
But prices have increased, not lowered ! Don't charge people when you just don't know what they do.
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Don't charge people when you just don't know what they do.
Isn't that what you are doing?
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Guys...
we are aware that you have both distinctive points of view on this issue. Lets no fire up on this.
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eBay is not interested in anything other then profit, how many times have you reported him? How many times have they removed his listings?
If you wish to shut this guy down, you should contact GW, who have supported this great game for the past 10 years! ::)
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Meanwhile, a genuine set of Phoenix Guard just went for only £7.50... =-P
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Was it a full pack? - I thought it was only 1 strip per stand, but the photo was that bad I couldn't tell.
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Is good that prices go down a little bit. Good for the one who can grab it. I am sure a lot of people have enough pheonix guard and do not need to fight for a price between 40 - 100 E for a unit.
So it is good going for what you need not for everything. Just my opinion, I know, I know... the offer and demand, savage speculation, freedom of spirit, black card grandpas and furious capitalisim and so on, I can live with all of these.
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Was a full set. It was undercoated black, and only partially painted so it looked like only half a set.