Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: frogbear on August 12, 2012, 01:21:38 AM
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So I decided to play Chaos Dwarves yet my opponent pulled out at the last minute.
We have set up a game for the near future so I decided to get some feedback (if any) on the below list.
Other than the Great Taurus (which I am taking because I have the model and the 2nd Lammassu is not ready yet), can anyone see any improvements I can make?
Thanks in advance
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Warmaster Army Selector
Chaos Dwarf Army,
2000 points
Warmaster Trial Armies Compendium 2009
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670 - 6 Chaos Dwarfs
- 1 Sword of Destruction (10)
150 - 3 Hobgoblins
220 - 2 Black Orcs
160 - 4 Orc Slaves
240 - 3 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders
90 - 1 Earthshaker Cannon
60 - 1 Death Rocket
270 - 1 General
- 1 Great Taurus (90)
- 1 Sorcerer Lord (25)
- 1 Orb of Majesty (30)
140 - 1 Sorcerer
- 1 Lammasu (20)
- 1 Ring of Magic (30)
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2000 - 20/10
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Decided also to show the deployment I was working on for the list above.
OR= Orc Slaves
BO= Black Orks
CD= Chaos Dwarves
HO= Hobgoblins
HWR= Hobgoblin Wolf Riders
ESKR= Earthshaker
DRKT= Death Rocket
S= Sorcerer
G= General
(http://www.wargamer.com.au/warmaster/ChaosDwarves_Deployment.jpg)
Not sure if it will work but hoping for the Orc Slaves and Black Orcs to take the majority of the initial charges to allow the Chaos Dwarf blocks to move up and complete the job.
I have the Wolf Riders (to the right) to help flank any forces and I have a squad of Hobgoblins and Wolf riders on each wing to help delay any charges on the Earthshaker and Death Rocket.
I have not used any Blunderbusses as I decided to go with more units to help the break point. Not sure if that was a wrong decision though...
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Dwarfs & chaosdwarfs may benifit from moving their arty up on table a bit more, have reserve (cav) around and remember to have those in irregular order, with one stand looking back (to avoid birdie droppings behind you).
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Face a unit in the other direction? Hey that is a neat idea!
I think I am lost on the taxtics a bit though Lex. Is the simple fact that they are facing backwards the irregular formation or is there something else?
I for one would benefit from Warmaster tactics 101 by Lex ;)
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Nope, just face ONE stand of the unit backwards. That WILL put the unit in irregular formation, and halves its movement, but as it is on arty guard duty that is fine 8)
And as your CHARGE distance is not influenced by irregular formation it allows you to react to both frontal and rear enemy
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Nice to see the CD list being used :)
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Nope, just face ONE stand of the unit backwards. That WILL put the unit in irregular formation, and halves its movement, but as it is on arty guard duty that is fine 8)
And as your CHARGE distance is not influenced by irregular formation it allows you to react to both frontal and rear enemy
OK. So on a charge, you move the stand that can see the enemy. What happens to the others? As they cannot see the enemy's base can they still hit an enemy edge or do they line up behind the charging stand?
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The prerogative is that A stand in the unit can see the enemy, move that and them move the other stands within the rules, which DOES allow them to get into combat if the have the movement distance needed (so actually, when the oppoenent has flyers active, you have 1 stand looking front and 2 stands back to make sure you can "dent" the flyers.
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Chaos Dwarves are the kind of army I wish they'd released officially - the vast raiding parties of the black wastes seem to match the scale of WM!
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Which figures are you using for the army? Eureka, maybe?
Sorry I can not help you too much with the list becasue never played with / against Chaos Dwarves. I could imagine some tactics, but in my experience if you are never played with a list and you start guessing only generates confusion so I prefere only wishing you good luck in your game!
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Yeah Eureka miniatures. I built up about 4k points so time to start playing with them. They r all unpainted however :(
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4k ! amazing, the main thing is to play and start exploring the list not in the mind but in the battlefield. great!
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I have just secured a game tomorrow vs Mortal Chaos (2K game).
My biggest concern are his Chaos Spawn as I have no real heavy hitters (such as B.Centaurs).
Oh well, let's see how the c.Dwarves and their magic stands up to the test...
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well, if you can shoot to the brigade with the spawn, it is possible that the spawn get separated to the brigade and isolated. Not always but sometimes happens.
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Some painted ones here ;)
http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/mickmarriott/warmaster/Chaos%20Dwarves/
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/mickmarriott/warmaster/Chaos%20Dwarves/DSCN7980.jpg)
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So had the game tonight and got summarily squashed.
Here is the Chaos list I came up against:
General
Wizard + Dispel
Wizard
Chaos Warriors x4
Marauders x2
Marauder Horsemen x1
Chaos Hounds x2
Dragon Ogres x1
Trolls x2
Chaos Spawn x2
Harpies x2
It was a tough force and I managed to remove 4 units with another 4 on the verge of being wiped out as follows:
- 1x Marauder Horse left
- 1x Troll left from a formation
- Both Harpy squads only had 2 units left in each
I needed the extra turn in order to try and turn the game around but alas it was not meant to be...
Thoughts on what I could have done different?
- have the Chaos Dwarves take the brunt of the attacks and move the orcs/hobs around the flanks
- move the artillery with the brigades
- Possibly consider some thunderers (although they take away from the break point for not that much gain)
- Consider taking Bull Centaurs
I am also at a loss to understand 90 points for a Great Taurus. It has Terror, flying and +2/2 however you only see most of this if threatening the life of the General as part of a unit. Would you really take it in favour of a Lammasu which would give you another 70 points to throw somewhere else?
Mind you I am far from tactically sound at this game so I am more than likley missing something :P
It was a good and fun game however and I will get pics etc. up over the next day or two.
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Firstly sorry none of it was painted however if I waited till I painted them, I would never get to play ;)
So this is the extent of the Chaos Dwarves. I was wrong before, it is more like 3300 points. I still have a 2nd Lammassu to go on there. After yesterday's game, I may also have to get another squad of Orcs.
(http://www.wargamer.com.au/warmaster/cdwarves1.jpg)
I use Orcs from BOTFA for the Hobgoblins
I was pretty slack on photos but this one shows the Chaos Dwarf left flank gone and Chaos forces had wheeled around to crush the Chaos Dwarves
(http://www.wargamer.com.au/warmaster/cdwarves3.jpg)
I know it is hard to follow (I will probably use battle Chronicler next time) but the mass of Chaos Dwarves at the far right could not get into range to assist the Orcs towards the middle of the table, or the Chaos Dwarves valiantly taking on the Trolls.
(http://www.wargamer.com.au/warmaster/cdwarves2.jpg)
It was at this point I lost my 10th unit and the game came to an end :'(
I have another game on Monday.
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Pretty nice table, good to see a chaos army on the battlefiled.
Nice houses and very interesting battlefield. Did you count all the terrain inside the fences as being in village (defended and -1 to command)?
Those trolls will feel confuse inside a village with too many distraction, (houses to plunder, things to break, dark allys, etc) and could be difficult to focus them to follow orders :)
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That is quite an interesting idea.
It was all open ground however what you have advised makes a lot of sense.
I think we will adopt a few more things in our games.
We have already adopted the following;
a. +1 to command for starting and finishing on a road.
b. -1 command in the plantation fields which are not 'open ground' and no Chariots or Machines.
c. Stands always have a minimum of 1 attack die
I am considering a few more sent to me by David Wasilewski - small steps ;)
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- we do the roads this way: touching the road at the start and when finishing the movement with at least one base touching the road, but ... the unit must move in column.
Have fun on Monday!
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Hi, just reading again your list and the last chaos list.
I have notice you had 20 units and only 2 commands (1 general + sorceror). I will drop some units and add more commands, in order to have a mobile army and not get stucked.
Maybe, a command per two brigades
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I had another game of Chaos Dwarves vs Chaos today
My army
Warmaster Army Selector Chaos Dwarf Army, 2000 points Warmaster Trial Armies Compendium 2009 ----------------------------------------------------------------
450 - 4 Chaos Dwarfs
- 1 Sword of Destruction (10)
360 - 4 Blunderbusses
100 - 2 Hobgoblins
160 - 4 Orc Slaves
160 - 2 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders
300 - 2 Bull Centaurs
180 - 2 Earthshaker Cannon
180 - 1 General
- 1 Sorcerer Lord (25)
- 1 Orb of Majesty (30)
110 - 1 Sorcerer
- 1 Scroll of Dispelling (20)
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2000 - 20/10
Opponent (as best as I could remember)
Warmaster Army Selector Chaos Army, 1945 points Warmaster Armies ----------------------------------------------------------------
600 - 4 Chaos Warriors
120 - 2 Chaos Marauders
110 - 1 Trolls
90 - 1 Marauder Horsemen
200 - 1 Chaos Knights
30 - 1 Chaos Hounds
130 - 2 Harpies
250 - 1 Dragon Ogres
110 - 1 Chaos Spawn
125 - 1 General
180 - 2 Sorcerer
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1945 - 14/7
More to come....
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Chaos started with a slow and steady progress down the table (shot taken from the Chaos Dwarf end)
(http://www.wargamer.com.au/warmaster/dw2.jpg)
Chaos Dwarfs move up to a fortified position to recieve the Chaos Horde
(http://www.wargamer.com.au/warmaster/dw4.jpg)
This shot shows the movement towards the engages to follow
(http://www.wargamer.com.au/warmaster/dw8.jpg)
Other than my brigades of Blunderbuses, some Chaos Dwarves, and a move with my Bull Centaurs, I was really struggliong to move much else. This was the state of much of the game however. It invariably came down to recieving charges and then using my initiatibve to get anywhere which was quite frustrating
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The relentless chaos advance pushed past the fortified positions and the Chaos Dwarves started to show some weak points as they could not match the number of attacks that the Chaos Warriors were able to dish out. Also the quality of the armour was found wanting
(http://www.wargamer.com.au/warmaster/dw3.jpg)
To add insult to injury, the Blunderbusses were charged in the flank yet did well damage the Chaos Warriors beyond repair before they were wiped out in a lon enduring battle.
(http://www.wargamer.com.au/warmaster/dw5.jpg)
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When the Dragon Ogres charged my Orcs, the battle looked grim as unit after unit collapse under their savagry.
(http://www.wargamer.com.au/warmaster/dw6.jpg)
.....Sorry no photos from here....
Eventually I drew the Dragon Ogres in to a point where I was able to charge and surround them with Hobgobs, wolf riders and Orc Warriors and was able to destroy them due to them not being able to get out of base contact on a fall back.
From there I was able to charge the two units of Bull Centaurs into the Chaos Marauders and Trolls and with one stand to kill to win the game, I was only able to do 2 wounds - Noooooo!!
With defeat evident as the Chaos forces charged three of my soft units to win the game, I started to consider all the leadership rolls I failed that helped to cost me the game....
--------------to be continued ------------------------
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The table is beautiful, and seems like a great game. Always learn something in every game.
IMO dragon ogres are very dangerous, in two aspects: First of all, they are great hitters but secondly they cause a psycological effect when you play against, because focus the attention (normally called fear) in annulate or attack them. A good chaos general will use this to attack the weak points that create your opponent when focus all his effort in denay the dragon ogres.
But if you could kill those dragon ogres, you won a lot of VP. I have lost more than one battle when my dragon ogres and one chaos cavalry unit are eliminated (450 VP for two units).
IMHO, regarding chaos dwarves I will try to buy more commands and see what happens.
Great battle!
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I seem to have forgotten all about the Battle Report.
The ensuing turn saw the Chaos Horde fail to destroy the units needed to force the break point.
With a breath of relief, the Bull Centaurs mopped up the Marauders to finally win the game.
It was a close one but eventually a win for the Chaos Dwarves at last! :D
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Going on the recommendation from jchaos79 I may try another character.
Below is my next possible CD list:
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Warmaster Army Selector
Chaos Dwarf Army, 2000 points
Warmaster Trial Armies Compendium 2009
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4 Chaos Dwarfs
- 1 Sword of Fate
3 Blunderbusses
3 Hobgoblins
3 Bull Centaurs
2 Earthshaker Cannon
1 General
2 Hero
2 Sorcerer
- 1 Lammasu
- 1 Scroll of Dispelling
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2000 - 15/8
I am a little concerned at the lower break point however I have less 'soft' units (3 Hobgobs and 2 Earthshakers)
I feel (for fluff) I should have more slaves etc. Maybe after a few more games I may see something I am not seeing now ???