Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] GothiComp => GothiComp Archive => Topic started by: horizon on August 21, 2012, 01:09:23 PM
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Hello,
after consulting all participants and getting only positive remarks so far I open the GothiComp 2012 Submission Feedback & Discussion thread.
Feel free to talk and discuss all and everything about the GothiComp 2012 entries.
Do you have a question regarding an entry (how did you paint that! how did you convert this!) feel free to ask.
But also feel free to give painting tips to entries. Or ask if you want to get tips to improve. Tell us how you take a great picture of a vessel and so forth.
Constructive critisism is something a lot of people appreciate. This to enhance someone's skills.
Make this thread a further inspiration to us all, GothiComp and Battlefleet Gothic in general.
:)
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I'll toss one out there first: what didn't the voters like about my Ultramarines ships? :D
And what I want to know is how Carlo Z. painted his DE ships, they're real purdy.
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Its not that i didnt like them, i did in fact but:
- The paint scheme is rather bland
- There were simply better ones
Thats my main points to answer your question
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Not 100% sure if i shouldnt wait until after the final with some questions and remarks.
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Hi,
Please all discussion in this thread, otherwise the nice thread order of polls will be diluted and destroyed. :)
Caine, good point. Lets talk first about eliminated entries, meaning tomorrow the tiebreaker losign entries may be discussed as well.
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I'll toss one out there first: what didn't the voters like about my Ultramarines ships?
Well In the fleet category I went with the sheer amount of detail that spellscape was able to get on his ships as the deciding factor for my vote. I found both fleets to be pretty equal as far as the base job went (Dan's Admech as well) but the extra details really made his stand a bit above IMO. Im also a big fan of BFG ships being dark and gritty which I believe he acheived very well.
As for the single ship catagory I think the small details really played apart again, although I didnt vote for either of the top two (I have my reasons but will wait till the voting is completed since they are still participating).
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With only a few hours left I can say it is free to talk about the Aurora. Small chance it'll pick up those votes behind.
And I am really curious on your reasoning, because...
:)
As for you Seahawk,
it is a neat painted ship, that's for sure. A reason it got less votes then the rest, I think: being Ultramarines I think most people would've rather seen more blue in it, especially on the Ultramarines flagship.
Further into that it is mainly the big white block at the back which causes that there is no 'pop' .
Eg the rudder section could use some alternating colour details in it for example.
The fleet made more of ' pop' the blue fins on the Strike Cruisers is that bit extra. On this fleet scale it looks really good. And it rates top in that heat in my opinion, above the AdMech, Voss and Imperial Fleet.
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I would like to get some feedback on my fleet as well if anyone has something to say about a non-BFG fleet :-D
@horizons Aurora
As an artistic object i think your Aurora wouldve placed higher especially with adding the picture that inspired it.
My guess is that its too shiny for some of the ppls tastes so it cant convince all.
Plus i think at one of the best visible parts it has a minor weakness if looked at so close. The top of the rear wing appears to have a spot or two in bright teal that looks like its not suppossed to be there, compared with the other side that can bee seen on the lower right image. Thats only in macro however, standing on a table its a beauty.
Sadly that spot is right in the middle of the total picture and sticks out a little because of that.
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Seahawk:
I didn't vote for your UM because it came down to you or the GK BB. Both are fairly par for the course when it comes to BFG painting, but unlike you, the GK barge entry chose to break up the bland color scheme with gold accents which helps elevate it a bit more than the silver elements in your own piece which tend to blend into the white.
In the fleet category you were simply outpainted by the quantity and quality of the Wolves fleet.
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The Aurora I felt got a bit muddled. You have some great colors here but the details didnt have enough "pop", the colors are just a bit too close to each other and the teal overwhelms the darker shades. I feel that a good bit of the detail on the main hull were lost because of the bright teal color (i find it actually draws my eye away from the detail instead of accentuating it). I do rather like the prow tho as the teal here adds something to an otherwise bland surface.
All in all I think this ship would really pop if the colors were swapped. Basing with that bright teal and then lowlighting up to the blues/purples would give it a nice glow from the center and the darker colors properly highlighted would show off the natural lines of the ship better.
Caine your fleet looks great, for me its just out classed once again with the level of detail brought by the other ships in your heat. There may have been an issue with it being a non GW fleet but I really doubt that. I have to admit I was surprised by the outcome of your heat tho so what do I know :P.
I really think that with the quality of the entrys this year tho I could find an arguement for any of these to go through :)
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Hey,
I added the 'inspiration' to my Battlefleet Gothic thread in modelling&painting.
http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=22.30
Caine, I do not see the spots.. :/ But thanks for the compliments! Artistic object sounds cool.
Andrew, swapping colours, I think the brightness is what makes it cool. In hindsight I should have put more detail/thought into the inner sails, the Solaris cuts of better there.
A reason to go more bright on BFG vessels is caused by the fact that in non-BFG communities/competition and often heard remark (to me) was that BFG ships are bland in general due GW design (matter of taste) and that the usual schemes on them do not hide that design look.
Just to show them, and promote BFG as an allround game, I used my Corsair fleet and repainted them in more brighter vivid tones. A challenge since it I was never a 'bright' painter in general.
And Eldar being alien, made them well, open to all options.
The results being the Nightshades, Hemlocks previous year, Solaris and Aurora did cause positive effect.
Caine's fleet,
yes his RSN fleet looks great and to me a surprise as well it got so few votes, it did have mine.
I like the sand tones on it with the good dark colour blocks well placed on it.
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Thx for the feedback. Great that you liked it overall. Ive to say i knew the details arent really done yet, and i didnt think i win, but i though in my heat i couldve got a little more votes, maybe only because the paint scheme (and how the blue spots are chosen) is nice in my opinion. But of course i like it as its my fleet :-D
Im surprised to see two of fleet heat 3 in the finals but ill talk about that when the finals are over. Additionally im interested in another decition in fleet heat 1 that totally surprised me. Again... later more.
@horizon
If i find the time i mark what i mean for you on the picture. But im away at the weekend so ittl take some time i guess.
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I'll toss one out there first: what didn't the voters like about my Ultramarines ships? :D
And what I want to know is how Carlo Z. painted his DE ships, they're real purdy.
Thanks!
1) semi-matt black for the first step (Tamiya).
2) First layer of Liche Purple (GW)
3) Second Layer of Genestealer Purple (GW)
4) Drybrush with Lucius Lilac (GW)
5) First wash with leviathan purple (GW) or Druchi Violet (GW)
6) Additional wash with Baal Red for the color's core and Asurmen Blue to enhance shades
7) Repeat step 5) and 6) until satisfy :-)
Boltgun Metal and Mithirl Silver for "guns" with magic Devlan Mud shades (I love Devlan Mud)
For the green part is easier: black, dark angeles green, scaly green, hawk turquoise, vile green, Thraka Green for final wash.
Everything definitely cover with matt seal.
Carlo Z.
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Hey,
Just wanted to voice some of my opinions on the format of this gothicomp. Hopefully this is the correct forum for this.
1) I love less time to vote!!!! It keeps the interest up IMO.
2) I like the tiebreaker idea, to some extent. I understand its nice to have a second place entry (lets call it "B")have another chance against other competition, if it gets squashed in its own heat against a top entry (lets call it "A"). But, I think the second place entry should not have a chance to get back into the final. If (B) has lost to (A), it should loose again in the final. That is, (B) might be the second best entry in the entire competition, but one would expect it to loose again to (A) in the final. Perhaps I'm being too mathematical in thinking this... In any case, I'd run the "runner up vote" as a separate poll, running alongside the final vote. Would this satisfy people, or decrease from the fun factor of the competition?
3) I don't like having multiple votes for any heat/final. I understand that there are difficult choices, but at the end of the day, you should be able to pick one ship. By having multiple votes, it makes separating a winner much more difficult. Without being able to rank your multiple votes, having two votes can also make for odd results. Consider entires A and B. Say most people think they are the best entries in the heat, but most people prefer A to B. Say 20 out of 30 people vote for A and B, though most prefer A to B. 20 votes for A, 20 Votes for B. Then one or two others vote for B, winning the competition for B. This seems possible, but not a good result IMO.
Thanks,
CF
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@Seahawk
Please take my comments only as constructive,
As others have said, the ships are painted cleanly and look nice. But as a whole, there is little variation between ships. To improve the look, I would suggest characterizing a few ships. For example, on couple ships try inverting the colours (make them mostly blue, with a bit of white), or adding red accents. You could also try using a darker or lighter shade of blue as the base on a few. All of this will add a bit more interest.
Finally, take a look at Vaaish's imperial fleet - notice how he has a couple different colour schemes in the same fleet, yet it works because all the ships are still tied together colour wise.
CF
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2) I like the tiebreaker idea, to some extent. I understand its nice to have a second place entry (lets call it "B")have another chance against other competition, if it gets squashed in its own heat against a top entry (lets call it "A"). But, I think the second place entry should not have a chance to get back into the final. If (B) has lost to (A), it should loose again in the final. That is, (B) might be the second best entry in the entire competition, but one would expect it to loose again to (A) in the final. Perhaps I'm being too mathematical in thinking this... In any case, I'd run the "runner up vote" as a separate poll, running alongside the final vote. Would this satisfy people, or decrease from the fun factor of the competition?
Possible Math:
40 people vote in one heat
A 20 votes
B 15 votes
C 3 votes
D 2 votes
After a tiebreaker B proceedes.
In the final same 40 people vote:
A 20
B 20 (is 15 + 3 +2)
Meaning that who voted on C&D still think B is better then A.
Also:
if X is entered the result could be:
A 12
B 15
X 13
meaning B voters prefer B consistent. But round one A voters like X more then A when compared.
So it is possible. Or people just click on the wrong option, ouch.
As for multiple options, I dunno so far.
Next year could be a try to have one big round one poll with 20 entries. Everyone can give 4 votes.
The top 4 or 5 entries go to the final where one vote can be given.
If it happens as GothiComp several years ago we'd have a poll with 70 options....
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Cool, thanks for the feedback.
See, I wasn't a fan of the SW ships. Something about it just didn't tickle me like the other fleets, whereas other people thought differently. Art is deliciously subjective like that ;).
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@Horizon:
Ok, I see your point regarding the tiebreaker, and now see why its appropriate to allow the runners up into the final, and support this method.
However, I still greatly oppose the multiple votes idea. Taking this years final as an example, it may seem close, but we have no idea which of the two ships people actually preferred. I voted for the two most popular choices in the final, but I did have a preference between the two. Personally, I think keeping it to one vote is more simple, and makes more sense if you can't rank multiple votes. Forcing participants to choose only one entry gives better data, makes you really think about which entry is the best. I also think the heat method has worked very well in the past, why complicate something unnecessarily?
In any case, as usual we had an awesome gothicomp this year, and I was honoured to help with the judging!
CF
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Funny thing on tiebreaker:
My Protector lost to the 2nd placed tiebreaker winner.
My Castellans got 2nd and showed that, well, only 1 entry got more votes.
Feedback on organisation & voting style is welcome and appreciated. I will take everything into account for GothiComp 2013. Yes, it will return and I have seen wips and heard tales... be prepared and start painting already. ;)
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It was my first ever entry in gothicomp and I have to say, I found it great!
I entered my Ramships when numbers looked low, just to join in, and was amazed that some people actually voted for them as the picture sucked :P
Just perving over the other beautifully painted models has definitely inspired me!
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Well I would like some feedback on my Bastion Fleet if anyone has any ?
http://specialist-arms.com/bfg/gothicomp/gothicomp12/gothicomp48.html
http://specialist-arms.com/bfg/gothicomp/gothicomp12/gothicomp18.html
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your color scheme is nice but your painting and conversion work is pretty dirty. It's especially apparent with how the Ravenwing Jetbike front is attached as the prow of your battleship. There appears to be a hodgepodge of parts rather than a smooth transition between the prow and the hull.
It's also easier to see the paint quality on your battleship. It looks like the paint is applied too thickly and then lightly washed with black which isn't enough to build contrast. You can more easily see this on the antenna cluster on the wings and the barrels on the turrets where there isn't much, if any, definition between the individual antenna or cannon barrels. You really need to go back over the primary colors and clean up after your wash and then highlight the cream and red. It'll also help to line the antennas and barrels with black to break them a bit more. Last you need to brighten the centerpoint of hte OSL it was hard to figure out why there was a blue halo on the side.
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RSN fleet is great - I voted for it. Maybe it's not about painting but because RSN fleet can be seen by some people as not "Gothic"
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Seahawk,
It was great seeing your fleet in person. I looked awesome on the table. What also made it look nicer is the fact that they dominated in the games... :)
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your color scheme is nice but your painting and conversion work is pretty dirty. It's especially apparent with how the Ravenwing Jetbike front is attached as the prow of your battleship. There appears to be a hodgepodge of parts rather than a smooth transition between the prow and the hull.
It's also easier to see the paint quality on your battleship. It looks like the paint is applied too thickly and then lightly washed with black which isn't enough to build contrast. You can more easily see this on the antenna cluster on the wings and the barrels on the turrets where there isn't much, if any, definition between the individual antenna or cannon barrels. You really need to go back over the primary colors and clean up after your wash and then highlight the cream and red. It'll also help to line the antennas and barrels with black to break them a bit more. Last you need to brighten the centerpoint of hte OSL it was hard to figure out why there was a blue halo on the side.
Interesting Interesting ! I have noticed the blue to be a bit bland and hard to see, any suggestion son an alternative colour ? Thanks for the feed back greatly appreciated :)
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Green would be the most likely choice since its the complement of red and would stand out more, but you also need to take the center of the glow up to white to really get the effect across.
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The scheme is cool & fresh. Vaaish sums it all up very nicely. To me it was the gold that needs more attenion. Deeper shades would have helped immense I think. Plus a reddish/brown-ish wash.