Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: ElectricPaladin on September 08, 2012, 06:00:42 AM
-
So, as I mentioned some time ago, I accidentally won an Emperor-class battleship on eBay. I say accidentally because shortly after I bid for it and right before I won it, I learned that I can use Chaos battleships as Venerable Battle Barges, and how they are far superior in many ways.
That said, now that I've actually got the model in my hands, I find that my opinion is changing. Making Space Marine lists was so... confining. The Astartes fleet has so few models. And this Emperor battleship is a really beautiful model...
So I have two questions.
First of all, what kind of advice can you give me on building and buying an Imperial fleet - even though I'm still probably investing in Tau first.
Secondly, how the heck do I assemble this thing? There are no instructions in the box, and it's slowly driving me crazy...
-
Have you checked the online pictures of the Emperor for help?
A traditional Imperial Fleet:
Admiral Ld8 + re-roll
1x Emperor
2x Gothic
2x Dominator
6x Sword
3x Cobra
Or something like this, to be an abeam fleet:
1x Emperor
2x Vengeance (or 1 Excorcist/1 Vengeance if you are an ordnance nutter),
1x Lunar
2x Dauntless
5* Sword
-
Dictators, Armageddons, and Lunars
-
Update - I think I've got the hand of putting this thing together. It's actually a very well-designed kit.
-
The kit is limiting only in that you cannot build two tyrants/doninators (less so for two gothics)
-
Ok, here's a tentative 1500 point list to build towards - what do you think?
Emperor-Class Battleship w/Fleet Admiral +1 Reroll
Mars-Class Battlecruiser
Space Marine Strike Cruiser
Dictator-Class Cruiser
Dictator-Class Cruiser
Sword-Class Frigate x3
Firestorm-Class Frigate x3
I like the idea of adding a space marine strike cruiser ally because it lets me start building a space marine fleet, and also lets me enjoy some of that space marine hit-and-run attacks without having to reply on them. Anyway - what do you think?
-
Personally I find the firestorm under performing (we use house rules version) and would rather stick with swords.
-
Personally I find the firestorm under performing (we use house rules version) and would rather stick with swords.
In general, I've learned from wargames that diversity is a good idea. What would you pair with swords of not firestorms?
Also, how's the falchion as a replacement for swords? I like the model significantly better...
-
Falchions are a little more versital, they bring a good amount of weapons to bear still and they can be used to clear torps/fighters in large numbers they can put up some hard hitting torp salvos of their own.
Your a bit heavy on the attack craft which IN doesnt really do very well to begin with :/. I like your basis but id drop some of the carriers, ill post some ideas after i mull a bit.
-
Ok so your basis here as i understand it: Emperor, Strike cruiser, Falcions. So expanding this into basically some smaller groups:
Emperor (Sharks) w/ Fleet Admiral (nuff said, the core of your fleet and provides the bulk of your ordinance) hold off on determining to place the Admiral on this ship, as it already receives a +1 to leadership the Admiral may be better placed elsewhere. 420 pts
Strike Cruiser w/ 3 Nova frigates (used to flank or run down cripples/ escorts) this could take on full cruisers if you want but id limit it to ones you know you have the advantage against also good for late game boarding actions where you know you have a strong chance of winning. 295 pts
Armageddon and Tyrant (range upgrade) (your power hitters) good mid range firepower means you wont suffer against long range foes so much and you will still shine upclose, torpedoes can be used to disrupt the enemy while your closing and as a shotgun. 430 pts
Gothic w/ 5 Falchions (the finishers) a play on the old school Gothic/ Sword combo this group is the one you would use to finish the job your Geddon and Tyrant started, target damaged ships or lone cruiser sized vessels using the manuverability of the Falchions to get favorable lock on situations, torps as with the Geddon/ Tyrant plus you can use single torps from the Falchions to snipe fighters/ torps. 355 pts
Just my take on this of course. Your options for fighters/ bombers drops but you get more ships and your not at such a disadvantage up close, the Emperor is the perfect support vessel for this style fleet sitting near by and providing cover fire/ cap but remember to keep it close you can be 45-60cm back from the main fleet and still do its job but your more likely to get cut off and your fighters will not be able to properly cover the rest of the fleet.
-
One thing - I actually can't take three Novas. The Allies rules in the FAQ say that you can only take one allied ship for every three ships of the same class already in the fleet. So, I'd need to have nine Imperial Navy escorts to take three Novas... and that's going to be rough. However, I can use Firestorms, who have nearly the same loadout, to escort the Strike Cruiser.
I also definitely see how Gothic and Falchions are a great combo. So much guns, and all at the same range... wonderful.
I also see the utility of the Armageddon. Again... that's a lot of guns, and very versatile. However, I'm not as fond of the Tyrant. I know the broadsides is a strategy, but it seems like it would be a hard one to pull off. I think I prefer ships that can pull off a powerful broadsides, but aren't dependent on it, and the Tyrant is, very nearly completely so. How about the Dominator, or a second Gothic instead? They seem more versatile.
-
For the record, that list would be:
Fleet Admiral
Emperor Class Battleship w/Sharks
Armageddon-Class Battlecruiser
Gothic-Class Cruiser x2
Space Marine Strike Cruiser
Falchion-Class Escort x5
Firestorm-Class Frigate x3
... and that leaves me with 10 spare points I can't figure out how to spend.
-
Then those 10pts just be....
You could add a power ram on the Gothics (5pts, is extra ramming dice).
@Jimmy,
the Firestorm is always the lesser choice ;)
Even without your ' weird' Fixed forward rules. ;)
-
Sorry, Armageddon fleet list was what I was going off of. It allowes you to take SM and Imperial in combined forces. The Novas were a fluffy choice really more than anything, firestorms would work but their lances are (F) fire arc which limits it a bit more. Im a bit confused on the Tyrant comment, all Imperial cruisers are dependant on their broadsides and the Tyrant complements the range of the Armageddon although the Dominator would be an acceptable alternative I perfer two nova cannons as a minimum tho if theyre taken. Gothics are great in moderation but enmass they suffer due to the low dice to hit and need an accompaning ship or escorts to reach their potential.
You could do
Emperor sharks fleet admiral reroll (445)
2x Armageddon (470)
Strike cruiser/ 3 x Firestorms (265)
Gothic/ 4x Falchions (320)
-
Im a bit confused on the Tyrant comment, all Imperial cruisers are dependant on their broadsides and the Tyrant complements the range of the Armageddon although the Dominator would be an acceptable alternative I perfer two nova cannons as a minimum tho if theyre taken
Yeah... actually, I'm not sure where I was going with that. It made sense at the time.
So, you recommend a pair of Tyrants instead of a pair of Gothics? Or one Tyrant (to hang out with the Armageddon) and one Gothic (to hang out with the Falchions)?
-
The Tyrant/ Armageddon squadroned gives you 16wb@45 and 4 lances, very powerful for their points.
The Gothic/ Falchions as you stated, Falchios to knock down shields and Gothic to carve em up.
Once again tho this is a fluffy fleet, in a competative area it would do ok but licht cruisers/ escorts are pretty weak.
-
The Tyrant is the least favourite Imperial Cruiser to me.
-
The Tyrant is the least favourite Imperial Cruiser to me.
What don't you like about it?
Also, doesn't a fleet need some escorts? Battleships and cruisers are slow and clumsy. Escorts can block lines of attack, soak up enemy fire, take down shields, and generally help the battleships to be effective. Isn't that the point?
-
To me every fleet needs escorts. And with 4 Falchions/3 Firestorms you have a good amount.
I dislike the Tyrant because it must have the range upgrade otherwise its 45cm range is futile.
The rest of the cruisers is 30cm ranged so having all cruisers at 30cm has benefits. And at that level the Dominator is just plain better as a battery broadsword. :)
-
Yup thats the point, they usually dont work out too well tho :/. Cruisers and battleships are not slow and clumsy enough. Escorts are too weak to really run interferance and they dont screen ordinance nearly well enough. When you get down to brass tacks escorts usually go poof unless you keep them in the back and only use them sparingly. My favorite use is hunting down cripples, its one of the few things theyre suited to.
No one really likes the Tyrant, it had no place in the fleet when BFG was introduced and quickly fell into disfavor. With the base stats the Tyrant is undergunned in the 45cm and 30cm bands compared to the other IN cruisers. It also suffers as the only ship it partners with effectivly in the original version was itself and since (like all IN cruisers) it requires a partner ship or squadron of escorts... Well basically no one took them.
With the range upgrade tho and the introduction of newer ships over the years I have come to like them for their ability to give the IN some teeth in the 45cm band.
-
I like the tyrant as the 45cm batteries in a 30cm range fleet has been helpful with Eldar.
I don't care for gothics for similar reasons and have come to appreciate the versatility of the lunars.
I am sure my bias are due to facing (and playing) eldar more than SM/Necrons.
-
Well, I can tell you that my initial opponent is going to be Necrons. That's what my friend Jordan is going to be starting. Does that change anyone's recommendations for my fleet?
Btw, it's important to recall that since I'm using an allied Space Marine Strike Cruiser and Imperial cruisers come in blisters of 2, I'll have a spare cruiser. It sounds like everyone agrees I should build one as an Armageddon and one as a Gothic. If I do build one of the remaining two as an Armageddon, what should I do with the last one?
-
Hi all,
I can't find a new users forum so I take this opportunity to post here and greet everyone... :P
Regarding to the topic...
What do you think about including a pair of Mars BC's with the Emperor to be the core of your fleet?
The NC's and 60 cm. lances could provide you with a good firepower at long range whilst they launch some ordnance to join the Emperor fighters/bombers. I've used it sometimes with good results.
I like the Emperor BB but I prefer the pure firepower of an Apocalypse (I think it's better than the Retribution) and I'm actually building a new fleet starting with an Apoc.
;)
-
Hi all,
I can't find a new users forum so I take this opportunity to post here and greet everyone... :P
Hi!
What do you think about including a pair of Mars BC's with the Emperor to be the core of your fleet?
The NC's and 60 cm. lances could provide you with a good firepower at long range whilst they launch some ordnance to join the Emperor fighters/bombers. I've used it sometimes with good results.
I like the Emperor BB but I prefer the pure firepower of an Apocalypse (I think it's better than the Retribution) and I'm actually building a new fleet starting with an Apoc.
The Mars works well with the apocalypse, because the Apocalypse is all guns and the Mars has lots of launch bays - that's the same reason that the Emperor works well with the Armageddon. They compliment each other. Unless you really like ordnance or really like guns, of course, in which case the Emperor/Mars and Apocalypse/Armageddon are great, respectively.
-
Well, I can tell you that my initial opponent is going to be Necrons. That's what my friend Jordan is going to be starting. Does that change anyone's recommendations for my fleet?
I think you would do well with the fleet as-is, you could change some things to tailor it towards the Necrons but thats kinda meh.
Btw, it's important to recall that since I'm using an allied Space Marine Strike Cruiser and Imperial cruisers come in blisters of 2, I'll have a spare cruiser. It sounds like everyone agrees I should build one as an Armageddon and one as a Gothic. If I do build one of the remaining two as an Armageddon, what should I do with the last one?
Well, i guess that depends on what you have decided to take as your fleet. I would say maybe a carrier for smaller games you cant fit the emperor into.
Hi all,
I can't find a new users forum so I take this opportunity to post here and greet everyone... :P
Regarding to the topic...
What do you think about including a pair of Mars BC's with the Emperor to be the core of your fleet?
The NC's and 60 cm. lances could provide you with a good firepower at long range whilst they launch some ordnance to join the Emperor fighters/bombers. I've used it sometimes with good results.
This could work, its an aweful expense tho. 910 points out of an average 1500 doesnt leave you much to work with for your cruisers/ escorts.
I like the Emperor BB but I prefer the pure firepower of an Apocalypse (I think it's better than the Retribution) and I'm actually building a new fleet starting with an Apoc.
Go for it.
;)
-
My IN is also led by the Apocalypse, just because. :)
Featuring one carrier. Oh me...
On the question: if race x and y will be my main opponents; would that change a thing.
In my opinion: no.
I always try to build a fleet trying to be allround, and having some nice aspects to it. I will never ever tailor.
It is also most fun if you do not know what race you will play against.
In campaign it is somewhat different though.
-
Im a bit confused on the Tyrant comment, all Imperial cruisers are dependant on their broadsides and the Tyrant complements the range of the Armageddon although the Dominator would be an acceptable alternative I perfer two nova cannons as a minimum tho if theyre taken
Yeah... actually, I'm not sure where I was going with that. It made sense at the time.
So, you recommend a pair of Tyrants instead of a pair of Gothics? Or one Tyrant (to hang out with the Armageddon) and one Gothic (to hang out with the Falchions)?
No, I think you were right. The Tyrant is poo. Andrew is correct in that all IN cruisers are dependant upon getting their broadsides but the Tyrant not only sacrifices firepower to gain its range, at an increased cost no less, but it also abandons its only strength to do so; ie, broadsides. On top of this as a gunboat it performs poorly at range, as it suffers a column shift (as opposed to a similarly ranged lanceboat).
Compare it to the cheaper Chaos Carnage. The Carnage has the same firepower out to 60cm and considerably more firepower at 45cm. The IN can't afford to try to compete in this arena. Therefore the Tyrant would have to be used just like any other IN cruiser, ie, prow on, torpedoes on the way in and trying to get targets in both broadsides. In this role you're basically sacrificing 17% of your firepower for the opportunity to incidentally support the Armageddon when you happen to have a target of opportunity outside the 30cm range. Not a good choice.
If you really want to support the Armageddon with another ranged ship then take another Armageddon, or a Mars, or even an Overlord (now that they're worthwhile).
-
Im a bit confused on the Tyrant comment, all Imperial cruisers are dependant on their broadsides and the Tyrant complements the range of the Armageddon although the Dominator would be an acceptable alternative I perfer two nova cannons as a minimum tho if theyre taken
Yeah... actually, I'm not sure where I was going with that. It made sense at the time.
So, you recommend a pair of Tyrants instead of a pair of Gothics? Or one Tyrant (to hang out with the Armageddon) and one Gothic (to hang out with the Falchions)?
No, I think you were right. The Tyrant is poo. Andrew is correct in that all IN cruisers are dependant upon getting their broadsides but the Tyrant not only sacrifices firepower to gain its range, at an increased cost no less, but it also abandons its only strength to do so; ie, broadsides. On top of this as a gunboat it performs poorly at range, as it suffers a column shift (as opposed to a similarly ranged lanceboat).
Compare it to the cheaper Chaos Carnage. The Carnage has the same firepower out to 60cm and considerably more firepower at 45cm. The IN can't afford to try to compete in this arena. Therefore the Tyrant would have to be used just like any other IN cruiser, ie, prow on, torpedoes on the way in and trying to get targets in both broadsides. In this role you're basically sacrificing 17% of your firepower for the opportunity to incidentally support the Armageddon when you happen to have a target of opportunity outside the 30cm range. Not a good choice.
If you really want to support the Armageddon with another ranged ship then take another Armageddon, or a Mars, or even an Overlord (now that they're worthwhile).
So, would you consider it worth it to - say - trade in two of my Falchions for the points to switch the Tyrant out for a second Armageddon, a Mars, or an Overlord?
Of the three, I'm most inclined towards the second Armageddon. Mars is pretty ordnancy, and my Emperor covers that. And the Overlord... just doesn't thrill me as support for the Armageddon. I could see it supporting the Emperor ok, though.
That would leave my "combat groups" as:
Emperor --> hanging back
Armageddon x2 --> mid range
Gothic + 3 Falchions --> close range
Strike Cruiser + 3 Firestorms --> close range/boarding actions
-
I think this is an illegal list
-
I think this is an illegal list
You're right. I can only have one battlecruiser for every two cruisers.
-
The Mars works well with the apocalypse, because the Apocalypse is all guns and the Mars has lots of launch bays - that's the same reason that the Emperor works well with the Armageddon. They compliment each other. Unless you really like ordnance or really like guns, of course, in which case the Emperor/Mars and Apocalypse/Armageddon are great, respectively.
That's the fact. I doubt between a pure gunship fleet or a mixed guns/ordnance. I usually play at close range with my SM fleet, waves of T-Hawks and Boarding Torps. before boarding with ships are my most common weapons.
The idea of firing from 60 lots of guns... :o
This could work, its an aweful expense tho. 910 points out of an average 1500 doesnt leave you much to work with for your cruisers/ escorts.
;)
Maybe it can be reduced to 1 BC and take more cruisers. Gothics or Lunars work very well in pairs at close range, for the Escorts two squadrons might be enough IMO.
;)
-
Ok, I am beginning to understand the quandry here.
The Armageddon - for that matter, almost all the battlecruisers and grand cruisers - are good mid-range ships. The only problem is, what can you use to support them? You can't take a second grand/battle cruiser unless you're playing an enormous game. So where else can you get 45cm range weapons?
Tyrants - especially with the upgrade - can field a lot of 45cm weapons.
Dominators have a nova cannon, which can fire at extreme ranges. You can also downgrade the strength of its weapons (strength 6 is still pretty good, right?) and give its guns 45cm range.
And... that's it for ships that can support the Armageddon.
At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Dominator. Nova cannons seem like fun.
On the other hand, what about abandoning the whole Armageddon thing and fielding a Vengeance instead? Vengeances have 45cm lances and 60cm guns, which would let it straddle the line between my Emperor and the rest of my fleet.
If I were to do that, I could field something like this (organized by which ships will hang out together):
Fleet Admiral (Ld8, 1 Reroll)
Emperor-Class Battleship
Vengeance-Class Grand Cruiser
Gothic-Class Cruiser
Falchion-Class Escort x3
Gothic-Class Cruiser
Falchion-Class Escort x3
Space Marine Strike Cruiser
Firestorm-Class Frigate x3
I really like the flexibility this list seems to offer. I have two Gothic/Falchions to attempt to outflank and one Strike Cruiser/Firestorm to drive directly down my opponent's throat. In the mean time, my Emperor and Vengeance can hang back and engage the enemy at long and medium range. The Vengeance also makes attempting to close with my battleship a very unappealing prospect.
I have to admit, other appealing aspects of this plan include getting to buy the Vengeance model, which is neat looking, and not wasting any falchions or cruiser models by fielding an odd number.
-
Armageddon list is one battlecruiser per cruiser
Emperor 370
Armageddon 235
Armageddon 235
Gothic 180
Strike 145
Firestorm x3 120
Falchion x4 140
Fleet admiral 50
Reroll 25
Perfectly legal list although for fluff and function i would swap the firestorms for gladius frigates.
The Vengeance is pretty killer, i really dislike the looks but i have one in my bastion list and it makes a good pocket battleship in smaller games.
-
Armageddon list is one battlecruiser per cruiser
Emperor 370
Armageddon 235
Armageddon 235
Gothic 180
Strike 145
Firestorm x3 120
Falchion x4 140
Fleet admiral 50
Reroll 25
Perfectly legal list although for fluff and function i would swap the firestorms for gladius frigates.
The Vengeance is pretty killer, i really dislike the looks but i have one in my bastion list and it makes a good pocket battleship in smaller games.
That's... really appealing.
Is using the Armageddon fleet list in any old game viewed as WAAC/TFGing, or is the assumption that I can use any fleet list I want and no one cares? Is Armageddon a perfectly viable alternative to the Segmentum Obscurum list, or is it specific?
-
How do you mean?
In the old days the Armageddon was overcosted, since FAQ2010 it is okay.
And yes, the list was legal as Andrew pointed out.
And no, do not use the alternative profile for the Dominator. ;)
-
How do you mean?
It's like this: in a game that's so old, there are bound to be options that are now way out of balance: cheesy, beardy, and obnoxious. The BFG scene in my area is bound to be small, if it exists at all, and I don't want to develop a bad reputation. Getting to field an increased number of Battlecruisers with no discernable disadvantages is really cool... and I don't want to be That F^*king Guy.
That said....
I've decided to go with the Segmentum Solar, two Armageddons fleet list. I like that it lets me begin building my Space Marine collection, and I think it will be awesome to field a pair of Armageddons side by side.
The list will be (organized by firegroup/squadron):
Fleet Admiral
Emperor-Class Battleship
Armageddon-Class Battlecruiser
Armageddon-Class Battlecruiser
Gothic-Class Cruiser
Falchion-Class Escort x3
Astartes Strike Cruiser
Nova-Class Frigate x3
Which means that I will be purchasing one strike cruiser, two blisters of imperial cruisers, one blister of falchions, and one blister of novas (recall from the OP that I already own the Emperor-Class Battleship). That's almost $100, assuming I can't find any deals on eBay. This game is (relatively) inexpensive to get into.
So... it's decided. A twin Armageddons list.
I'll just call my admiral... Admiral Caspian Sollux
...
...
...
Yeah.
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110211223214/mspaintadventures/images/f/f1/Sollux_Captor.png)
-
Why doesn't your little emo guy in the picture have any arms? And is that the reason why he's emo?
-
Why doesn't your little emo guy in the picture have any arms? And is that the reason why he's emo?
He has no arms because he's a character from Homestuck (http://www.mspaintadventures.com). They're all drawn that way in most scenes and only get arms for the really dramatic ones. He's emo because his world was destroyed and he was accidentally denied the chance to live in the new one he and his buddies made.
And his online handle was TwinArmageddons.
Hense the funny.
-
Ooookay. So a fleet with two Armageddons in it will from now on be called The 'Armless Emo Fleet, or TAEF. Got it.
-
Ooookay. So a fleet with two Armageddons in it will from now on be called The 'Armless Emo Fleet, or TAEF. Got it.
I only own my first model, and already I'm spawning memes. Go me!
-
Play IN, and I can say that Sig is correct. TAEF, or the two armageddons specifically, are really good. Even just one has done really well for me so far. :)
As for the fleet lists, just remember that most races get to field all their ships in just 1 list (sometimes 2) whereas imperial are restricted for fluff reasons. So a list that lets you buy ships with less pre-reqs is just another way for you to level the playing field.
As for cheesy beardy combos, have you played Necromunda? Vaan Saars have the same problem your describing. ;D There is no official solution to this problem, so it just depends on your players being reasonable, rather than obnoxiously tight assed when it comes to balancing issues.
-
I haven't read the IN fleet restrictions, so I don't really know, but you don't think they exist for ANY balancing reason? you don't think it may be to offset the fact that IN have more than twice (often three times) the ships of the other fleets? (with the obvious exception of Chaos)
Also aren't you playing Van Saar? :-\ :P
-
Well, my primary opponent is likely to be Necrons, so I don't think he'll complain.
Also, in 40k I play Tau. I deserve a little cheese.
-
I haven't read the IN fleet restrictions, so I don't really know, but you don't think they exist for ANY balancing reason? you don't think it may be to offset the fact that IN have more than twice (often three times) the ships of the other fleets? (with the obvious exception of Chaos)
Yes, there are balance reasons behind the CB restrictions. However, these restrictions are not waived in the Armageddon Sector fleet list, merely lessened. Also, other restrictions are put in place. Notice that this list has no grand cruisers, Retributions, Overlords, Dauntlesses, Dominators, Swords or Cobras as default. So to use any of those ships you'd have to use the reserves rules. A practical impossibility for the Retribution and reasonably difficult for the escorts. To make up for this lack the list has access to SM ships, Falchions, Voss CLs, Armageddons, Oberons, Apocalypses and extra CB slots.
-
Fair point, gentlemen. I am not saying that imperials/chaos should get to field their entire list, as that would be ridiculous. They do have a more extensive list than the other fleets, that is for certain. I'm saying that one of the reasons they have these fleet lists is that since so many different vessels are added to those 2 lists at once, the designers add a new list to justify the inclusion of radically different ship designs in those 2 fleets. Because of their fleet restrictions, imperials can only field about 50-60% of their ships in any given list, although some list allow uber-reserves from either SM (Armageddon) or AdMech (Bakka).
Although I do play IN, I do not know if there are any fleet compositions that the lists do not allow for balance reasons. I always thought dictator + dominion would be good, but even that would not be over powered (as you may have noticed, IN don't really have quantity or quality with AC) :P.
Sig could probably enlighten us on combinations that the lists effectively ban, if he so chose to inform us. :)
I honestly think that for IN, the lists are just to balance fleets by forcing a "flavour" of sorts onto each fleet, thus giving it a focus/strength/weakness. In that way IN and Chaos are, despite their fleets being more versatile, in many ways just as limited as the other fleets. It does make it harder to build generalist lists, but certainly not impossible.
-
This is an interesting conversation. The part I most want to hear more about from an experienced player is this: what are the qualities of the different Imperial Navy fleet lists?
-
Well still a relatively inexperienced player, I can offer some insight:
The bakka list from faq 2010 offers almost no attack craft, but compensates with high turret rating capitals and strong direct fire battleships and battlecruisers. They have a few unique escorts that are actually quite good, both as gunboats and torpedo destroyers. It also has easy access to AdMech vessels, which if grabbed with fleet defence turrets can really help with the lack of AC.
The armageddon list from armada gives the additional bonus of easily accessible battlecruiser, albeit only two varieties available. It has a large variety of vessels, and due to the lack of fast ships tends to be slower and more defense oriented. This can be mitgated by taking advantage of the fact that you can also include space marines with very little restriction, making this a very strong list.
The obscuras bastion list from armada grants easy access to grand cruisers, along with all-around access to a good selection of other cruisers, making it a good line fleet due to double grand cruiser core. The reserve fleet is somewhat more limited in selection but adds several chaos ships to the list, along with some minor disadvantages when you pick them.
The gothic list restricts you to the core vessels, but that's it. It also allows you to run dominator's and dictators in the same fleet, which for some reason is not allowed in the other lists.
The BFG:R lists include a almost direct port of the obscuras and armageddon lists, but introduces a warden list. This list is supposed to represent a self-sufficent mobile patrol fleet on the galactic border, and thus features lots of light cruiser, backed up by ordnance cruisers and escorts, with battleships and grand cruisers rarely seen.
More mobile and ordnance-erific than typical IN, but generally weaker in direct fire, with distinct lack of nova cannons.
Truly veteran players can probably shoot these generalizations down, but these are accurate as far as I know.
-
Hi, I have been painting BFG vessels for a couple of years, I have only had a couple of small games (500/600pts) against an eldar playing friend. People at my unig aming club are now getting interested in playing gothic again, so I am finishing the painting of my ships, but this has made me realize I am not sure which fleet list to use.
The models I have are:
1 Retribution class Battleship
1 Apocalypse class Battleship
1 Exorcist class Grand cruiser
2/3 Lunar class cruisers
2/3 Gothic class cruisers
4/5 Dominator/Tyrant/Overlord cruisers/battlecruisers (The gun boat ones)
1/2 Carrier cruiser/Mars battlecruiser
1 Cruiser where I stuck 4 launch bays on, never undercoated (I was 14, had ordered the cruiser pack and thought it looked cool, I'm thinking of trying to cut out the forward two and replace them with spare gun batteries).
2 Lance armed Dauntless
1 Space marine strike cruiser
6/9 Swords
6 Firestorms
6 Falcions
So which Battlefleet would it be best for me to use? I am also thining of ordering another Exorcist/Avenger/vengence and another blister lance Dauntless and a cobra blister when my student loan comes in. (Might order them over a couple of months, but am worired GW will stop/failcast/raise the prices.).
-
Well, it's been a while, but I picked up some more ships at a flea market, and given what I now have and can build, here's what I want to run:
1k Points
• Fleet Admiral (Ld 9, +1 Reroll)
• Emperor-Class Battleship w/Shark Assault Boats
• Tyrant-Class Cruiser w/Extra Range, Ram
• Gothic-Class Cruiser w/Ram
• 3 Firestorm-Class Frigates
The idea is that the Emperor can swing wide and attempt to set up long-range broadsides, backed up by the Tyrant, whose weapons have similarly long range. The Gothic can play a little closer to the enemy, backed up by the Firestorms, who have the capacity to contribute with their own lances. Fortunately, since lances don't diminish with range, I can afford to play them at the far end of their range, which would benefit the Imperial playstyle in general.
What do you think?
-
This is a much different to IN than I take. I think you can make it work but I would consider swapping the firestorms for swords at that amount. Hold your torps until you can point blank shot them.
-
I'll be level with you: at this point, I own three Swords, three Firestorms, and an Emperor. I have a Tyrant, but it's being stripped and I wouldn't mind pulling it apart if I had to. I have another half-built cruiser (it was probably destined to become a Gothic, judging by the bits that are attached) and a third with no weapons at all, but it's missing its bridge and I can't use it unless I can get my hands on the bit. I'm trying to make the decisions about how to assemble my two (maybe three) cruisers.
What two cruisers would you add to a collection that already included an Emperor, three Swords, and three Firestorms?
-
Swords are indeed preferred.
Your list is quite classical.
The best partner for the Gothic is the Dominator.
You could do this:
Emperor
Gothic+Dominator
Gothic+Dominator
escorts
or, a bit more variety:
Emperor
Gothic+Dominator
Lunar+Lunar
escorts
-
Swords are indeed preferred.
Your list is quite classical.
The best partner for the Gothic is the Dominator.
You could do this:
Emperor
Gothic+Dominator
Gothic+Dominator
escorts
or, a bit more variety:
Emperor
Gothic+Dominator
Lunar+Lunar
escorts
With a gothic hanging out with the dominator, and the escorts also hanging out with them (similar range), shouldn't I add a battlecruiser with 45 to 60 range weapons to hang out with the Emperor? Something like a Mars or Overlord? Or one of the Grand Cruisers?
-
Anyway, I just realized that this list was illegal. How about this instead:
1k
• Admiral, Ld 8, +1 Reroll
• Mars-Class Battlecruiser, Ram & Targeting Matrix
• Dominator-Class Cruiser, Ram
• Gothic-Class Cruiser, Ram
• 3 Firestorm Frigates
• 3 Sword Class Frigates
This list is balls-out, shoot the enemy to death. Everything wants to get within 45 and 30 away, though I've got some 60 lances and two nova cannons to play with while they close. The firestorms escort the gothic and the swords escort the dominator.
I'm a little worried about the lack of long-range weaponry, but anything I can get this fleet to within 30 of is going to die messily.
-
The other question I forgot to ask would be: "how well would this list work at 1500 if I wanted to expand it with an Emperor-Class battleship?" I think it would work, but I'd like confirmation.
-
Well, with a Emperor as an upgrade, the list works.
Also now. Dominator could got no ram bow due to his nova cannon. The targeting matrix for the Mars is IMO overpriced for those S6 WBs. Firestorm is not a very good escort but can function. But I'd take Cobras instead.
-
Well, with a Emperor as an upgrade, the list works.
Also now. Dominator could got no ram bow due to his nova cannon. The targeting matrix for the Mars is IMO overpriced for those S6 WBs. Firestorm is not a very good escort but can function. But I'd take Cobras instead.
Well, the list is at 995, and I can't figure out what else to spend those 15 points on, so the targeting matrix is really just icing on the cake. It lets the Mars hang back a little more and provide support for the Emperor in the 1500 version of the list, I guess. Even in the 1k version, it'll let the Mars operate at the extreme of its range, which might help it win an exchange of fire against the right target.
Does having a nova cannon mean you haven't got a ram (and thus can't take a power ram)? I believe you, but I can't find that written...
-
Also, another question. In the rules for 1k tournaments, they restrict you to only one nova cannon. This list has two. Will that be problematic, or seen as cheesy? If a tournament happens, will it be likely to use these rules? I could go with an Exircist and get more or less the same effect...
-
Um... can you make an exorcist with the avenger kit?
-
Victory is mine!
Games Workshop has decided to send me the missing bridge bit. I am now ready to hit the void with 1500 points of the Imperial Navy. As soon as my orders arrive, I will also have 1k of Chaos, but there's another thread for that.
Also, in conversation with some local veterans, I have decided that bringing two nova cannons is kind of TFG, so I'll be building a slightly different list at 1.5k:
Admiral, Ld9, 3 Additional Re-Rolls
Battleships
• Emperor-Class Battleship "Guardian Star" w/Shark Assault Boats
Battlecruisers
• Overlord-Class Battlecruiser "Epsilon Eridani" w/Power Ram, Extra Turrets
Cruisers
• Dominator-Class Cruiser "Hammer of the Martyrs"
• Gothic-Class Cruiser "St. Galileo the Percipient" w/Power Ram
Escorts
• 3 Firestorm-Class Frigates "Angels of Fusion"
• 3 Sword-Class Frigates "Messengers of Wrath"
At the moment, this list is 30 points shy, but I'm don't have any models to close the gap. Maybe at some point in the future I can add a lone cobra destroyer, or drop some of the rerolls and add a third squadron of escorts or a light cruiser. I dunno. With so few upgrades, it seems like BFG is the kind of game where lists sometimes come in at odd numbers, and there's not a lot one can do about it.
-
Pfft, nothing wrong with 2 Nova Cannon @ 1500pts.
Make it a Ld8 admiral, use the spare points to add 2 Swords (fiddle with power ram/re-roll).
-
One question about the nova canion spam, what is when a player plays mechanicus. Is he considered a lammer or something? I mean in a normal imperial fleet 1nova per 500 points is considered balanced,so what is with mechanicus?
I have never played vs imperium, always chaos, orks and SM so I have no idea.
I would like in a future maybe to build an imperium one but I never thought in the nova as something important for the fleet.
What is the impact? Tacticaly speaking.
-
With current official rules there is nothing as NC spam, torpedoes are more dangerous.
Yes, the NC can do damage but is more psychological then actual hurting.
-
Ok, you convinced me. I'd forgotten that nova cannons aren't guess weapons anymore (re: 2010 FAQ), so fielding a second no longer benefits from the triangulation effect. I'm happy with this decision - I wanted to field a second carrier, and a carrier in smaller games.
-
Multiple novas are a must imo. If i take one ill almost always take two, it really increases your odds of damage.
-
Even with current rules, you are still better off with multiple Nova Cannons if you want reliable damage, however. NC spam is like any other spam: it is never inherently a fault of the system, but of the player(s). Your lists have a good variety of offensive strengths, so you are therefore, by definition, not a spammer :)
-
Seriously, if the INTERNET says something isn't beardy, it's probably fine.
-
NC are not that nasty in spare numbers. I usally field 2 or 3 at 2k-Games. Not that Game-Breaker.