Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: afterimagedan on October 23, 2012, 05:12:08 PM
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Vote 4.
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++BFG:R Necron Fleets++ (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1596994/BFGR%202/BFGR%20Necron%20Fleets.pdf)
Any changes people think should be made to the Necrons before we start voting?
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Keep fixed 4+saves from BFG:R. Those are gold.
Perhaps rework the Sepulcher? Never thought it had good mechanics.
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I smothermaned the new ships and they work quite well, actually they are overpriced but their special rules make up for it. The Reaper is quite a ways overpriced. I will check it some more. What do you not like about the Sepulcher?
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It is described in its own flavor text as being so horrifying and terrible that the targets are likely to damage their own ship in their terror. The leadership hit seems meh with that in mind. My first thought was auto-crit, like a hit and run, but they already get a lot of those, so...
Also, the star pulse is written as causing a single attack roll. Against what? Armor value? Does this ignore shields?
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Also, the star pulse is written as causing a single attack roll. Against what? Armor value? Does this ignore shields?
It doesn't give any specifics otherwise so it seems like it would function like a WB die roll. That's how we have always played it. Doesn't ignore shields. Basically, everything in range gets a die roll against it.
Personally, I think the Sepulcher is fine. Actually, I like how it works. It's not the most powerful thing in the world, but leadership 10, the ability to zap ordnance pretty reliably, and the leadership ability make it a great option for the points.
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Acting like a battery...is that not rather weak in practice? Also, how do you determine facing since it is an area of effect weapon? My thoughts would be weakest facing.
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I would just use the arc the enemy ship is facing to you. Consider this against escort squads. This gets an attack on each one individually. This can do some real damage. Also, it's really nice against ordnance. They have worked really well for me in games.
P.S. I take it back, I was doing the smotherman for Necrons on the Reaper improperly. It's pretty much exxactly where it should be point wise.
Also, the Khopesh is a stupid ship with only being able to fire L/R with it's batteries.
My changes to the Khopesh:
Drop the portal, drop 1 particle whip, make the lightning arc 8 and shoot F/L/R. Same points. Smotherman confirms it! That makes it more "necronish" and usable.
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Same problem with the Cartouche. It smothermans about right but I think it should be allowed to fire its weapons F/L/R, make the lightning arc firepower 5, and make it 150 pts.
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Thank god...because the cartouche was pretty worthless IMO. It was pretty much the only necron ship that could not whip out significant damage, even in one arc on its own
I will look up the Khopesh (which by the way is just another type of scythe/sickle btw...good job plaxor :P ;))
Eh, I can live with the sepulcher. I just think its oddly mechanically represented.
Star Pulse still seems pretty weak, but I have never played with it so I will accept your answer gracefully.
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Khopesh is more of a sword I thought.
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Star pulse only works well when you've got multiple ships in range of a target. Once had 4 scythes knocking around together and their SP almost single-handedly took out most of my opponents escorts. But even for this to happen you have to forgo ANY SO's, so in the long run, yeah, not really worth the hassle.
Just thinking, the fluff on the Lightning arc mentions that it doesn't need to see. Wouldn't ignoring the right shift for Blast markers/gas clouds be more characterful than a left shift?
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It does seem like you would need a lot of them...is it too strong if you treat it like a lance shot?
@afterimagedan It is very sword like...I mean't its following our other curved blade trend...actually, what is with necron naming conventions?
-Cairn, Dirge Shroud (All very burial/graveyard themed)
-Scythe, Khopesh, Reaper (All various hooked blades with a sacrificial/death theme)
-Cartouche, which is a form of egyptian hieroglyphics (Necron are kinda egyptian, so it works I guess)
-Jackal, the animal (which eats carrion, so could be associated with death/burial I suppose)
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Star pulse only works well when you've got multiple ships in range of a target. Once had 4 scythes knocking around together and their SP almost single-handedly took out most of my opponents escorts. But even for this to happen you have to forgo ANY SO's, so in the long run, yeah, not really worth the hassle.
It's worth the hassle when you have 12 bombers coming at you. It's kind of making up for the fact that they don't have to reload ordnance ever. They replace ordnance with these and the Sepulcher. When you need to wipe out some ordnance, you can't go on special orders. That balances things because then you aren't an ordnance killing ship and a locked on gun ship in the same turn. You have to be tactical about it. Also, you can still du huge damage without lock-on with Necrons.
Just thinking, the fluff on the Lightning arc mentions that it doesn't need to see. Wouldn't ignoring the right shift for Blast markers/gas clouds be more characterful than a left shift?
Eh, such a small change like that seems like a decent amount of reworking to make sure it balances out. Why not just leave it?
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It does seem like you would need a lot of them...is it too strong if you treat it like a lance shot?
Yeah because there is a chance you can get 10-15 lance shots off in a turn. Trust me, these things are sweet. If you can position your ship between a large escort squadron, you are firing 7-8 shots that turn. It ignores blast markers (there is no rule saying it works like gunnery) so shoot it after your batteries. That way, their shields are down and any hits are right to the body.
@afterimagedan It is very sword like...I mean't its following our other curved blade trend...actually, what is with necron naming conventions?
-Cairn, Dirge Shroud (All very burial/graveyard themed)
-Scythe, Khopesh, Reaper (All various hooked blades with a sacrificial/death theme)
-Cartouche, which is a form of egyptian hieroglyphics (Necron are kinda egyptian, so it works I guess)
-Jackal, the animal (which eats carrion, so could be associated with death/burial I suppose)
I think they are just going for what Europeans and Americans would see as Egyptian references right away.
I may do a battle report with Necrons some time soon. I have been dying to do that.
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Alright, let's get some progress done. Does anyone feel like we should NOT have the Khopesh, Reaper, or Cartouche ships int he BFG:R Necron fleet?
I like all of them but I would like to add those small tweaks to the Cartouche and Khopesh.
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Theyre kind of pointless and lacking models I would say drop them.
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I appear not to be able to vote....
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Theyre kind of pointless and lacking models I would say drop them.
Should we drop the Supernova? Or endeavor, endurance, and defiants too?
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Keep all three, with the mods stated above.
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We should keep them as options. If people don't want to convert them (which would be easy), then you don't have to use them. I prefer more options, personally.
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Ok, do you guys want to just take a vote about including the Khopesh, Reaper, and Cartouche, in whatever form?
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???
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The voss ships shouldnt even be included there, they have a purpose and they have models available... My real concern here is that were are adding ships that are not needed. If everyone wants to add options to the Necron fleet thats fine and ill go along with it but it just seems like a waste of time. The real concern to me is getting rid of the victory point nonsense and repricing the ships correctly. If a tomb ship is worth 250 vp crippled, 1000vp destroyed, and 1500vp hulked why beat around the bush instead of making them 1000pts? The requirements for them are pretty silly also, 1:2 cruisers? Its almost as bad as the original 1:1 scythe rule. These are supposed to be stupidly rare but any fleet 750+ can field one?
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The Voss ships are available to a very select few who own the original models. There are variants out there but those were made by fans. Why can't that option be open to people who want to use these ships? Again, what about the Supernova?
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By your logic then transports should be removed if these fan made creations are? Because you cant buy them anymore either. What about the super nova? Its not official and the vast majority of people do not use it, kind of like what these are going to be.
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My logic says why not have them available for people who want to use them. That's how the game works, we have options to choose from. IN players get all sorts of options. Do you just want Necrons stuck at 5 ships? My guess is you don't play Necrons so you don't care. But what if you did? :o
Agreed about the Supernova, so why not include the Necron variants? Is it because Plaxor made them and not Horizon/Sigoroth? I realize I sound like I am coming off strong, but I am not writing this with that tone behind it. Just asking questions! :D
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I know very little about Nercon in BFG, even less about these ships, but the discrepency between the number of IN/Chaos ships and all the other (with the possible exception of Orks?) has always bothered me. So keep em?
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The gist was BFG:R initially should be about existing ships. Step two would be new ships.
I know MMS breaks the mold, but the Nova and Wymr do exist for several years now. ;)
But Kopesh as well.
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The gist was BFG:R initially should be about existing ships. Step two would be new ships.
I know MMS breaks the mold, but the Nova and Wymr do exist for several years now. ;)
But Kopesh as well.
But why not just do it now? I mean, we are essentially making new vessels when we make some vessels 2 hits instead of 1. Some of those ships will have a new role. Also, we are going to be tweaking a whole bunch of ships. I don't see much of a difference. These new ships are mostly modified old ones. And really, there aren't tons of new ships, just 3 in Necrons, 3 Dark Eldar, and of course, some Tyranid ships. If we are changing AdMech so much as to make you pay for upgrades now instead of roll randomly (making every point cost for every capital ship different), why not add a few ships in fleets that can use more options?
Two more reasons to do it now: 1. it will take much more work to get the documents looking decent. 2. We can always come back and tweak what we need after we have "final" documents.
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I agree with Dan on this one; since were only adding a bit, better to add it now then later to smooth things out. Can you imagine how much work it would be to have to go back and modify every previous document whenever we add a ruling or new ship? Hell on (insert afterimagedan's residence) is what that would be.
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Can you imagine how much work it would be to have to go back and modify every previous document whenever we add a ruling or new ship? Hell on (insert afterimagedan's residence) is what that would be.
It is pretty hard unless people want to deal with pages with half of it white. That's possible but still some more work.
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' kay then. ::)
Editorial issues win me over.
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' kay then. ::)
Editorial issues win me over.
Hehe, and I thought I was going to have to invade Europe to make it happen! (...my typical America blood...) ;D
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Hold on, if we're adding ships right now...what about the ships from the book of nemesis? Those eldar ships wwould need a lot of work, and heavy input from horizon and sig, but the others would be relatively easy.
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which ships? Hmm, don't remember any specifically.
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The Nebula Battlecruiser and the Ikaros light cruiser, both from the Book Of Nemesis. written in the original rules.
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I am personally rather cautious about messing with Corsair and Craftworld Eldar without hearing from Sig or Horizon on it.
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And, as I am always quick to bring up, the Tau missile Boat. I think there are also a couple IN/Chaos and Ork vessels, but I could easily be wrong.
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I say wait with BoN for now. It was its own dedicated fanmade supplement with its own share of fans and haters.
If you update that book, update it as one piece.
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I say wait with BoN for now. It was its own dedicated fanmade supplement with its own share of fans and haters.
If you update that book, update it as one piece.
I think you are right on this one. It was it's own separate project and I like it just the way it is.