Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: berzerkmonkey on January 22, 2013, 03:48:58 PM
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I recently came across a really good deal on a Chaos army that contains the following:
1 x Chaos General
3 x Chaos Heroes - 2 wizards and 1 Mounted Champion
2 x Chaos Warrior Infantry Unit
2 x Dragon Ogre Unit
4 x Chaos Hounds Units
2 x Chaos Knights Unit
2 x Marauder Horsemen Unit
5 x Marauder Infantry Units
It's a bit over 2100 points without magic, but being that I'm not that experienced with WM, I'd like to get some more seasoned generals' perspectives. Is there anything I should have more of? Less of? I'd prefer to spend as little as possible, as money is really tight right now, but I can afford a couple of units, if needs be.
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There is not much to add.
2 units of Harpies to round up the army
2-4 Units Charios (but are not mandatory)
Everything else you have.
Regards
Clasu
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There is not much to add.
2 units of Harpies to round up the army
2-4 Units Charios (but are not mandatory)
Everything else you have.
Regards
Clasu
Ok, but to get to 2000 points, I'd have to drop some units. Any input as to what I should remove to make way for the Harpies?
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The most efficient way to use Chaos is with maxed out chariots, thats why in our group youll rarely find 2 knight units and almost no dragon ogres as well. While those are beefy units they are not enough bang for your bucks. (especially the DO who often dont get to fight because their 20cm range)
But it really depends on how you like to play (and your opponents). Ive seen fluff chaos list win and efficient chaos lists loose, so if you like the composition of your armylist, just play it. I dont see anything that would be absolutely wrong with the list.
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The most common battles are at 2000p, so all above that is for having alternatives when making armylists.
2x DO is probably not so good. To many points in those 2 units. You may consider dropping one.
As Claus mentioned:
-Harpies. Highly valued for Chaos. To hunt down enemy artillery which in a skilled opponents hands otherwise will wreck your heaviest units/brigades with ease.
-Chariots are a very good option, better then Horsemen, punches like Knights but are much cheaper.
For infantry I prefer mixing Marauders, Warriors and Ogres. Makes one of the (or the!) most solid inf-brigade in the entire game. So 1 Ogre/1000p is worth considering.
How does your 2000p-list look like? Playstyle? Competative/friendly playing evironment?
Edit: +1 on Guthwine
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I see the composition ok. Chariots are not mandatory, it depends about your style of game.
Harpies could be needed. If you get one blister you could split the figures to get two units. Harpies looks great with less figures per unit.
You could see some examples here http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=4349.0
just a tip: do not use the chaos hounds like a skirmish wall to avoid shooting, they get killed quickly and make very easy to break your army. It is needed to fight first with your strengh units, chaos warriors, knights, etc... better than marauders and horsemen.
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I think that's a good, basic list.
I'd lose a marauder infantry unit and lose a hero and replace them with a unit of chaos warrior infantry, to help you with the assaulting of terrain.
Dave
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Another tip for the hounds, they are a great target for the spell that creates extra attacks. You wont get a cheaper unit with more attacks with some lucky rolls. :)
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How does your 2000p-list look like? Playstyle? Competative/friendly playing evironment?
That's a good question. I guess the answer is that I don't have one yet. I've only played two games, one a learning experience, and one an absolute rout (me being the routed.) The environment is friendly, but I would like to have something for an upcoming tournament (though I don't expect to win.)
Harpies could be needed. If you get one blister you could split the figures to get two units. Harpies looks great with less figures per unit.
You are correct - those stands do look really good. I'll take your advice and just get the one blister.
I'd lose a marauder infantry unit and lose a hero and replace them with a unit of chaos warrior infantry, to help you with the assaulting of terrain.
So you're thinking of 3x Chaos Warriors and 4x Marauders?
Does anyone use Spawn at all, or are they too unreliable/too much of a pointsink?
I appreciate the input on this guys - it looks like I lucked out and not only got a deal, but a reasonable well-formed army as well.
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In this battle you could see (IMHO) a good example of how Edmund use a spawn and hounds integrate in a brigade of infantry.
http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=5018.0
Spawn protects from fire, cause it has a great save. Hounds avoid fire and protect flank when the side is manace by cavalry. The brigade of infantry advance directly to his objective without distraction.
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I would really lose the Dragon Ogres. These are the units I regret the most having even painted them. Although they push up your points and spare your wallet, chance is good you won't play them too often in the future - so they might be lost money in the end - at least that's what happened to me (reason is their point cost/attack ratio and their speed). And then you had another 500pts to spend.
The spawn is very expensive pointwise too although sometimes they are fun to play. As you are beginning to play I would still maybe leave them for later as they are a bit special.
With everything else I agree with the others. I very much agree with your choice of 5 Marauder Infantry and I do also recommend Harpies, Chariots and Ogres. If you really need to save another blister you could leave one unit of Chaos Hounds as 3 are imo sufficient for the start. But of course it's always a matter of taste.
Greetings,
Gerald
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I would really lose the Dragon Ogres. These are the units I regret the most having even painted them. Although they push up your points and spare your wallet, chance is good you won't play them too often in the future - so they might be lost money in the end - at least that's what happened to me (reason is their point cost/attack ratio and their speed). And then you had another 500pts to spend.
The spawn is very expensive pointwise too although sometimes they are fun to play. As you are beginning to play I would still maybe leave them for later as they are a bit special.
With everything else I agree with the others. I very much agree with your choice of 5 Marauder Infantry and I do also recommend Harpies, Chariots and Ogres. If you really need to save another blister you could leave one unit of Chaos Hounds as 3 are imo sufficient for the start. But of course it's always a matter of taste.
Greetings,
Gerald
Thanks for the input.
So, based on the great advice I've received from you guys, I've modified the list as such:
1 General
1 Hero
1 Sorcerer
2 Chaos Warriors
5 Chaos Marauders
2 Ogres
2 Marauder Horsemen
2 Chaos Knights
4 Chaos Hounds
2 HarpiesThis leaves me 65 points to play around with for upgrades. I'd like to eventually get some chariots, but I think the hounds will fill that niche for the time being - assuming I can keep them alive long enough to do what they need to do (and it saves me a few bucks for now as well.)
How does that look to you guys?
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I like it, even I am thinking in copy it to play with it in a future game ;) (not really have a game arrange but is good to have lists ready)
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Its a solid list but I would suggest a second Sorcerer. You could swap the hero for a second one, they both are command 8 and if they are commanding infantry the command range isnt that much of an issue.
Also you have 9 infantry units. So you have to make 3 brigades which is an extra order and with 3 characters that could be one too many. You might wanna think of cutting one unit, and making 2 brigades of 4 units.
But again its important to find the army composition you like, otherwise we would all have the same lists and that would be boring.
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Guthwine is right, but if you're in your firsts games with warmaster, I'll recommend you to take the hero, because you have wider range of orders, and you could focus in the game rather to position the sorceror to 20cm of your next order.
When you feel comfortable and adpat your style of game to the chaos list, then move on to two sorcerors. Just my point of view.
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Also you have 9 infantry units. So you have to make 3 brigades which is an extra order and with 3 characters that could be one too many. You might wanna think of cutting one unit, and making 2 brigades of 4 units.
Yeah, I was thinking about that - I'll probably drop one of the Marauder units and either pick up another character or load up on upgrades.
Thanks for the input guys - you've been really helpful! :D
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Actually the setup is depending on your playstile but normaly a larger number of units is better then a few elite units but as usually the combination of both in conjunction with your playstile, tactical skills and luck to roll the dice will be the "salt in the soup" ;)
Regards
Claus
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Looks solid. Good luck in your games. Let us know how it turns out. :D
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Will do - I'm not experienced, so I'm sure I'll be destroyed, but hopefully I'll have fun!
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OK, rehashing this for a bit, I've modified the list a bit and have a question.
The list:
1 General
1 Hero
1 Sorcerer
2 Chaos Warriors
4 Chaos Marauders
2 Ogres
2 Marauder Horsemen
2 Chaos Knights
4 Chaos Hounds
2 HarpiesThis brings me to a total of 1875 points.
My question revolves around what to do with the remaining 125 points. Do I:
- Take another Sorcerer/Hero then use the remainder for magic
- Take a Spawn and use the remainder on magic items
- Forget about the little dudes - load up on magic items!
Taking the Spawn will bump my break point up to 10, but I don't know if it is worth the points to just have one Spawn.
Any thoughts?
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Hi,
always good to raise the breakpoint. Would take a Spawn to bring some terror within the enemy.
Cheers,
Jürgen
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My question revolves around what to do with the remaining 125 points. Do I:
- Take another Sorcerer/Hero then use the remainder for magic
- Take a Spawn and use the remainder on magic items
- Forget about the little dudes - load up on magic items!
Taking the Spawn will bump my break point up to 10, but I don't know if it is worth the points to just have one Spawn.
Any thoughts?
Now you have a solid list and depend on your style of playing, and sometimes depends on the style of playing of your opponent too.
- Take another hero/sorceror --> Are you a gambler? If you are not take the character. That means in your tactic play all your troops should move and the more character the better.
My opinion 3 characters could move all your troops, I do not take another hero, but I bet I will pass the orders at least 3 orders per turn, if I have bad luck my army could get stuck.
- Take a spawn --> Are you a hard hitting general very offensive? if it so, take the spawn, put it on the infantry brigade which is going to hot spot of the enemy line and use it as a shield for shooting enemies. There are no unbeatable tactic, the spawn could get isolated... If the spawn get the enemy it will cause serious problems.
Are you defensive player and your are fighting against an army with terror troops? take it and allocate it to unable the terror attack.
- Load up with magic --> Is your opponent load up with magic? If it is so, then load up you too. If not don't load your army to not unbalance the game.
As always, that are my ideas, I build them with my experience playing warmaster, and there are not "graved in stone" are only suggestions. My advice, play, play and play then you will discover how is the best way to use your own army. Do not change a lot of parameteres or troops in your list from game to game, just some slight changes and you will learn how to use your troops against different situations and different enemies. Think about your errors and your achivements in the games, taking photos and making battle reports is a good way to analyse what was going wrong in the last game and what you did good.
and always, winning or loosing have fun with your opponent and with the game!
regards
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Id personally go for the spawn. It can be very annoying for the enemy if your lucky with the 3+ saves. Bretonnian bards sang many a songs about my heroic knights who died because that damned spawn made all its saves. :D
And you could spend the extra points on a second sorcerer instead of the hero, if youre feeling lucky. :)
Also a very general Warmaster Rule is Unit > Magic Items, some armies have a specific item (Dark Elves, Orks,..) thats very useful but other than that a unit of any kind will generally help more than magic items.
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Also, remember that the Spawn is about as shooty as it gets for Chaos.. and its shot can often make the difference when aimed at the opponents support..
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Thanks for the input, guys. The environment is going to be a tournament setting, so I have to create an all comers list.
I'm not sure how they're going to run the event, but it looks like there is a chance for each army to be split into three components (Advance, Main, Rearguard) so I need to ensure all elements of the army have a chance. This is part of the reason I am torn between the Spawn and the Hero...
I guess I'll have to think about it and weigh my options.
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I'd go with another Sorcerer. They've got Cmd 8 and nasty spells.
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I'd go with another Sorcerer. They've got Cmd 8 and nasty spells.
Besides.... with 3 parts in your army an extra commander could be helpfull.... more if you do not know which part you CAN use.
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Dave, You just want me to lose that additional break point so you can wipe me out all the easier! :P
Hmm, that means I need to get my hands on another Sorcerer model...
Edit: OK, you guys sold me - extra Sorcerer it is. Now for the hard part - painting up the army in the 10 weeks I have available!
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Now for the hard part - painting up the army in the 10 weeks I have available!
It is CHAOS..... no problem.....
Go to the DIY, get spraycans of (mat) black undercoat, gray undercoat, tan undercoat (or ochre, or any bit yellowish) (trust me, the Car spray Undercoat > commercial games related stuff (and way cheaper!)
Get some of your favourite stain (some people swear by floorpollish.... other buy (expensive) Armypainter..)
get out the heavy metal dudes (CW, HCC, Chariots etc), spray with black, zenit spray with gray
get out the medium and light stuff, spray with grey or tan (mix and match)
grab you stain and dip/shake or brush on per preference
drybrush on your metal color of preference on the heavy guys
mix up some glazes and hit the larger painting surfaces of the medium and light
some contrasting, a bit of highlighting
and you are done..... ;-)
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I should have been more clear. I purchased the army from someone and it was half painted to a pretty good level - the first time I've bought something where I actually liked the paint job. Now I have to go about and try to get as close to that job as possible so the army looks unified. That's my main problem! ::)
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I should have been more clear. I purchased the army from someone and it was half painted to a pretty good level - the first time I've bought something where I actually liked the paint job. Now I have to go about and try to get as close to that job as possible so the army looks unified. That's my main problem! ::)
Uhoh... who painted it ?? do you know (and do WE know that painter ??) For your sake I hope it is not The Iron Painter..... 8)
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Haha, no, it isn't the Iron Painter or Vincent (thank God!) He said he used to be on some of the boards a few years back, but hasn't participated in a long time. I don't know what his username was either.
He asked a good price so he could buy some paintball gear, and I accepted. :)