Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: Carrelio on January 31, 2013, 08:23:48 PM
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Hi everyone,
I’ve only very recently come to play battlefleet gothic, but from all I’ve read about it, it seems like an awesome game and I really look forward to trying it out. My local Games Workshop has announced they will be holding a BFG campaign over the course of the summer, and I’d like to take part.
I recently picked up some relatively cheap Tau models from the specialist games range (not sure what everyone’s problem with them is, I fell in love with the look right away), and while I’m sure they will make a great start to my army I would like some opinions on what I should look to be getting next (since SG Tau are not the cheapest ships in the world and I don’t want to make too many more mistakes than I already have).
My eventual goal is to have different fleet options all the way up to 2500-3000 points. While not many people at my GW play BFG yet (they are all buying fleets now) the local meta is very very competitive so I would like to try and make the list as strong as possible in an attempt to pre-emptively counter for that in the coming campaign.
I have done a lot of research over the past couple days (read every article on this site, and much of what other sites have had to say about Tau, or BFG fleets in general), and some conclusions of what would make a powerful Tau fleet stuck out. A powerful ordinance phase typified mostly by resilient bombers, and underpriced heroes kept in check by the need to be accompanied by other capital ships. Tau escorts look powerful, and they are, however escorts have a series of weaknesses which make them riskier to use.
With those points in mind I currently own the following:
1 Explorer
2 Merchants
2 Heroes
17 Defenders (don’t ask...)
3 Messengers
8 Orcas
To better power up the list I was thinking of adding:
2 Explorers
2 heroes
8 orcas (2 packs)
However, given that that is $200 before the taxes or shipping costs, I thought it might be a better idea to hear what everyone thought before I rushed in to buying more stuff. Any advice would be helpful, not just about the purchases, but in playing SG Tau in general!
Thanks!
Carrelio
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Since you will be playing in a GW store, presumably with only GW rules, you are best off with the traditional hero/explorer/orca spam. In a nutshell, 3 explorers that sit back and ordnance the crap out of everything, with three hero's to man the front line. The orca's either tackle other escorts and light cruisers or charge the line with the hero's, depending on the situation. Easy to play, very dangerous, and long ranged.
If you are playing with a better set of rules (i.e. faq 2010 or BFG:R) then a different post will be in order. ::)
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That's pretty much what I thought.
What would be the difference assuming we did use the 2010 compendium rule adjustments?
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That would still be a good fleet regardless, but you would probably consdier running mechants. Horizon has a fleet with quite a few of them as a gunline IIRC. PM if he doesn't but in to explain ;D
The FW is really neat but is quite different than the normal tau fleet in a few fundemental ways. Many people run one or the other but if you want a combi-fleet it could work well.
GW Tau:
-Ridiculous ordnance capabilities
-Average resilience, low maneuverability
-Weak Battery (long range), average lances
FW:
-Pretty average firepower across the board, slight emphasis on ordnance
-Slightly less resilient than GW tau, but much more maneuverable and a bit faster
Basically GW tau sit back and shoot things to shit, basically throwing up a tough cruiser screen and then a desperate escort screen to stay alive until they pound their enemy to dust. FW are more of a combined offensive fleet; they use their maneuverability and range to set up firing lanes where they can destroy enemies through a multi-level barrage of battery, lance, torpedoes and bombers. FAQ 2010 is super sweet and comes recommended by everyone as does eldar MMS 1.9b. (Ask horizon or sigoroth for that one) When were done, you should definitely consider BFG:R as it will basically be the most awesome of every system ever created. ;) And humble too :P
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Thanks for the advice :)
I hope he shows up to get a word or two in
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Don't wait for that; just send him a PM he is quite reliable, being a moderator and all:)
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Alright, will do.
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Eh, hey, I don't have a SG Tau fleet, I only have 1 explorer and then a 2000+ pts FW Tau fleet. I think you have mixed me with someone else.
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Well, thanks anyways :P
Any advice anyways?
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Sorry guys; I thought horizon had the tau merchant gunline. Either way, that's a type of fleet.
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No worries. You've been very helpful already. I think I will definitely be picking up at least 2 more explorers and another hero.
Edit: In your opinion, what is the better way to load up a merchant class ship if you do end up taking one? Lances? or Orcas?
Edit 2: And how would you go about bumping up the 1500 point triple explorer hero list to 2000?
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If your looking to bump up to 2k for a campaign id look at some Merchants w/ hooks and some Defenders for scenarios like Convoy where you may be required to field escorts.
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Hey,
I remember that back on the old port maw forum someone did command a gun line of Tau with a core of Merchants, Heroes and Messengers.
In the official rules I think the merchant is to weak, with bfg revised I do see potential in this setup compared to the more usual power game fleet of only explorers heroes and orca's.
Good placement will give you a pretty awesome 45cm gunnery line. Chip in a FW Tau part with Protectors and Castellans and you will find a pretty unique fleet which can still hold its own. Oh, add a demiurg stronghold as the centrepiece.
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Alright :D
Thanks for the help everyone. I've settled on picking up another 2 explorers and a hero.
That will give me 3 explorers, 3 heroes, 2 merchants, 8 orcas, 3 messengers, and 18 defenders (I found another in the box...)! That will give me enough to build the basic 1500 point explorer+hero combo, and lots of wiggle room to try out different stuff and add on to it as the points and missions change throughout the campaign.
I notice a lot of people don't use the messenger that much. Is that because its an escort? Or because its powers really don't synthesize well with an ordinance heavy Tau fleet? Given how strong Tau escorts seem offensively but how susceptible they usually are to ordinance, I would have thought something that improves their turrets would seem like a pretty good idea. With that in mind, I would have thought a squadron of 2 Castellans and a messenger would be a pretty solid combination; 4 missiles to take out other missiles, a 45cm range battery with no penalty for firing over 30cm, and rerolling its 2+2 turrets against ordinance. What am I missing?
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It's just that the messenger is very expensive and contributes about zilch firepower to the fleet. Also, with the FW tau the custodian also has a tracking system with double the range. And unlike the messenger, who is undergunned even for an escort, it is actually quite heavily armed for its points, toting 8 torpedoes, 6 launch bays, 12 battery and 2 lances.
I have heard arguments for the messenger, it just seems to me that it was always just better to have the extra defender, ya know? It could see use anyway, but only in larger games where the points are not as tight.
Just my 2 thrones ;D
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I cant see taking a Messanger in a carrier based fleet. Having a few in a gunline would only make sense but even then id only do it in a one off game, they really dont feel right for campaign use.
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My local Games Workshop has announced they will be holding a BFG campaign over the course of the summer, and I’d like to take part. My eventual goal is to have different fleet options all the way up to 2500-3000 points. While not many people at my GW play BFG yet, they are all buying fleets now.
This warms my heart.
I remember that back on the old port maw forum
And this totally deflated all my good feelings. Gawd I miss that forum.
Oh, add a demiurg stronghold as the centrepiece.
I do not own any Tau pieces, but I own a fleet of Demiurg vessels. If for nothing else, adding one or two ships to your campaign list certainly creates some variables for the larger scenarios. They are expensive, but boy do they have versatility in combat.
A major question is what version of the rules is the shop planning on using? 2010 FAQ with all the updated fleet lists? Because at that point, even a Kroot Warsphere isn't such a bad option. I'm thinking of adding a 'Sphere into my Demiurg fleet. I may even buy the massive model GW sells ;)
-Zhukov
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I asked earlier today, and they said they will be using the 2010 compendium for the rules.
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In a GW store? Cowabunga!
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Now my next big question is how to paint these things to look good! I suppose it's not something that I can really ask anyone here about since it will come down to personal preference in the end. I'm considering a Farsight Enclave based on the Vior'la colour scheme to make for a nice bright and colourful contrast against the usual blacks, blues, and greys. Though for that I really do need to do some research about how spaceships would 'weather' to give them the appropriate wear and tear of being an old workhorse of a fleet.
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Weathering on this scale... Black and or brown wash :D. Seriously tho its pretty hard to get any kind of noticeable weathering on these, the FW tau might not be so hard with all those big panels tho.
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Perhaps this as an inspiration:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2huEZ1foQBU/Sru7Yt7t1SI/AAAAAAAAAF4/A9PZxVnh_M4/s640/tm1109_021.jpg)
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Alright! all set to go!
I've got my ships.
I've got my colour scheme.
Now I need a little bit of tactical advice. How do Tau usually go about doing what they do? I understand that I want to keep my distance from enemies, and send wave after wave of ordinance into anything that stands in my way... but does anyone have any specific hints tips or tricks to do this?
When should I start launching mantas? Should I always be trying to use special orders or should I hold off until I get closer to engagement distance?
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A couple of rules of thumb for almost any fleet:
1) Special orders all the time. There is no prize for not using them, so whenever they would benefit in the slightest use them. The skill is knowing which ships to pick first, what orders to pick and when to use your re-rolls.
2) Ordnance should be launched right from the start of the game, because ordnance dominance is established from turn 1, whether offensive or defensive in nature. If your fleet has more ordnance then your opponent, pouring out a massive offensive right out the gate is sure to put them on the backpedal, and successfully doing so not only limits their tactics but also helps protect you, since they will be forced to use their own ordnance defensively.
Now as for tau specific:
1) Keep your explorer's far back from the fighting. Do this by moving them at their slowest possible speed, skirting the fight if necessary by collectively breaking left or right en masse. Unlike more aggressive carriers like the styx and the dictator they cannot afford to slug it out at short range, so treat them carefully.
2) The Hero's are very strong and versatile, but they are vulnerable by virtue of being the only line ship in the fleet, and thus often strung out on their own. Make sure to use their ordnance aggressively to soften incoming foes up and take advantage of combi-ordnance attacks with your explorers. Although their ordnance is solid and versatile, they are a very strong mixed gun boat so the times may come where it is better to use Lock-On then reload ordnance. Try to maintain a safe distance, because even imperial vessels can board yours and destroy them with ease.
3) The Orca's are fast but not very maneuverable for escorts, so you will probably have to commit them to a fight much more than typical escorts. Try to use them as bouncers early on to keep things from engaging your explorers, but be on the lookout for a fight that they can win and send them into the fray. Escort pack getting behind your heros? Chase them off and wing around for a flank attack. Weakened crippled capital vessel near the flank? Swing in and finish them off, splitting your opponents fire between them and your heros.
4) If you are fielding defenders, what goes for orcas goes for these big boys, save that they are better suited for slugging on the side lines and worse off for anti-escort duty. Use their small torpedo volleys to peg off enemy torpedos or to hammer a vessel that has used its turrets versus your AC waves that turn. Torpedoes are also good for taking out enemy escorts, but due to their small size they will be low on your priority list and thus will probably miss several reloads a game, and thus are less reliable in this regard.
5) Your merchants are like the imperial guard: they kill through volume rather than quality of fire. They might be weak but a couple of them can soak up serious firepower that would otherwise cripple more expensive vessels. Use them alongside your heros to keep them in tip-top shape, or use them as a second wave with your defenders to sweep through their lines, leaving the crippled vessels for your orcas to finish off.
Bear in mind I am not the greatest player ever, and people all have different opinions. These are however solid and broad guidelines that will give you a starting point when you first play. You will learn stuff yourself after that but feel free to get some second opinions.
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From personal experience with and against Tau:
Your battle plan revolves around Explorers. As long as Explorers are operational, battle is yours, but when you start losing them, you lose the battle. Thing is, you WILL have more ordnance than enemy. Therefore, in this aspect of the battle, he will be in defensive position. If you lose this advantage, he outpaces, outmanouvers and probably outguns you.
But with masive ordnance superiority Tau can achieve, you mitigate it. You force him to spent time braced, to reload his own fighters instead of locking on or coming to new heading.. His advantages disappear.
Therefore, guard your Explorers, it's your one sole priority in battle, because it's the Explorers that allow other ships to win (And, in case of low-turret enemy vessels, they will destroy them on their own)
Second of all - when it comes to special order priority, do your best to keep battlefield fully saturated with ordnance all the time. Every time siginificant amout of it gets used up or destroyed, reload. Keep your explorers away from the main battle, behind rest of your fleet. Braced explorer does not reload, so whenever enemy forces you to do it, he gets a bit of breathing space next round and you may not allow it to happen.
Remember that explorer has lots of hits - he can take a few and keep fighting. Don't brace them unless something significant hits them.
Do not separate your ships. Mind the formation, with combat ships in the front and carriers in the back, but keep them close to each other. You need ability to mass your firepower, and you don't have mobility to do it when formation breaks. Unless enemy has significant advantage on extreme ranges, such as multiple nova cannons, do not close faster than necessary. Just send ordnance forcing him to come to you.
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Thanks for all the help guys! This has all been really useful so far!
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Dont be affraid to launch fighters either, ill often ignore your bombers and launch my own if were that unbalanced and rely on heavy turret ships and massed turrets to soak the damage.
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Would you guys be OK if I took some of this advice and put it into a blog post on my blog? I will save it until I can make and post a tau tactics article. I would credit you, of course.
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Sure sounds cool.
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Khar & Talos gave some sound advices. Use them. :)
Keep that formation.
But do note, that once you start playing other scenarios then a standard pitched engagement formation keeping becomes a lot less easy.
Even a battle scenario like fleet engagement or escalating engagement (both cool scenarios!) will throw your fleet apart.
And do play other scenarios, it will make you a better allround player. Adapting is fun.
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I have SG Tau
2 explorers
2 merchants
4 heroes
6 orcas
4 messengers
12 defenders
i usually play at 1 with two explorers and 2 merchants and add 2 heroes for 1.5k
the merchants are lovely models but are under gunned, even with the HP upgrades
so for competitive play see if you can base it on 2 explorers and 2 heroes, taking a 3rd hero with a merchant
keep the merchant then to escort your explorers
be careful not to let chaos or orks get close. if they board, you will die.
keep your mantas with your torpedoes
best wishes with your SG Tau
I love mine even if I don't win all the time.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6UGFWWT1aGo/URhbKW8il3I/AAAAAAAAAX0/XFV9ek82xOA/s1600/fracas%27-Tau-fleet-2k.png)
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I played my first game of BFG today. 1000 points Tau vs Imperials against one of the staff at my local GW. We were both learning, so things were a little slow, rocky, and uncertain, but it was quite the battle none the less.
He had brought 2 lunars with nova cannons, 2 dictators, and the solar admiral.
I had brought 2 Explorers, 2 heroes, 5 orcas, and a Kor'El.
We rolled mission 4, surprise attack, and I was the defender.
We ended up generating an absolute ton of celestial phenomena... With the mandatory planet rolling a giant ring, and a couple other sectors getting dust clouds, it was messy...
In the first turn I thought I was done for when he scored a direct hit with 2 nova cannons, crippling one of my ships, and causing a critical hit which set the second on fire. But I came back valiantly... sort of. Despite having literally been blown to pieces, I failed the leadership check to take half of them off of standby... so while my brave explorers set off to fight the incoming force of the imperium head on... my heroes sat immobile and on fire, not noticing the danger.
But then my ordinance phase came. And in a single glorious bombardment I hulked a lunar!
The trend of ordinal strikes continued late into the game, until, with just one ship left, the Imperials made a huge come back and scythed down the bulk of my fleet (we're talking wiping out all 5 orcas, hulking a hero, and crippling the two explorers down to 1 hp each).
Just as the tables had turned once again and things looked bad for my fleet, I rolled some great rolls and downed his last dictator with a combination of missiles and bombers from the surviving hero (the one that started turn 1 on fire and didn't notice I was under attack until turn 4).
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But then my ordinance phase came. And in a single glorious bombardment I hulked a lunar!
BIFF. I bet that was glorious.
The trend of ordinal strikes continued late into the game, until, with just one ship left, the Imperials made a huge come back and scythed down the bulk of my fleet (we're talking wiping out all 5 orcas, hulking a hero, and crippling the two explorers down to 1 hp each).
So, looks like, even though the Tau won, that Dictator was the MVP.
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Definitely, it single handedly dealt a third of the damage to my fleet that game. The ordinance went way further in damaging my vessels than the batteries and lances in the rest of his fleet, and the extra turret also made it much tougher to take down than the lunars.
For the Tau I'd say the MVP was a toss up between the orca squadron and the explorers. When I wasn't failing my reload ordinance test the 8 mantas each on the explorers was monstrous, and when I was failing my leadership, the 5 lances on the orcas was nice to get a few quick snipes in.