Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: ElectricPaladin on February 04, 2013, 03:16:34 AM
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I just got to play my first real game of Battlefleet Gothic! It was a ton of fun, and I am - as I said to my opponent at the close of the game - very eager to expand my collection and learn to be actually good at this game.
I won't go into a detailed battle report, because I'll probably get too many things wrong, but here's the most important lessons I feel I have learned:
1) My Chaos collection is just fine. There are a couple of things I could add if I really wanted to, like devestations or murders, but I can build a powerful, killy fleet with the stuff I have.
2) My Imperial collection, on the other hand, just isn't as good. I have decided to do the following:
• Replace my dominator with a tyrant. The slightly better firepower of the dominator just isn't worth losing access to the torpedoes of the tyrant... which help the tyrant work better with the gothic, which is the primary purpose of my second cruiser, anyway. A second nova cannon... the problem seems to be that while it's powerful, it prevents me from using the core strategy of the Imperial fleet effectively. Luckily the conversion is pretty easy, even post-painting.
• I need to two or three dauntlesses. Apparently, dauntlesses are nice because they are the Imperial ship that doesn't fight like an Imperial ship (versatile, mobile, fast, rather than relatively slow and heavily armed). My opponent informs me that, additionally, a dauntless makes a good escort for a battleship, because it's mobile enough that it can play the midfield game, helping out the cruisers, and still whip around and back up the battleship if it ends up in danger.
• I need cobras, but slightly less than I need the dauntlesses.
3) Upping my ordinance game is important to playing Imperials. Once I turn my dominator into a tyrant, I'll be able to play some very sneaky games with torpedoes and nova cannons, as well as softening up the opponent to receive my steam-roller like charge through the center of his fleet.
4) And, finally, a tactical note about the use of attack craft. If I have more bays than my opponent, I should play offensively with waves of bombers (for the capital ships) and shark boats (for the escorts) protected by fighters. If my opponent has more bays, I should just give up and play defensively with fighters on CAP. There's no middle ground - either you dominate or you lose.
What do you think of these lessons? Am I learning the right things?
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Those are some good insights! I highly support 2 torpedo Dauntlesses. Having those in the fleet can be very helpful for adding a bunch of torpedo power to your fleet with a 90 degree turn. That's one of the reasons they are awesome at protecting a battleship. Glad to hear the game went well! What ships did you use?
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Those are some good insights! I highly support 2 torpedo Dauntlesses. Having those in the fleet can be very helpful for adding a bunch of torpedo power to your fleet with a 90 degree turn. That's one of the reasons they are awesome at protecting a battleship. Glad to hear the game went well! What ships did you use?
My Imperial list was:
Ld 9 Admiral, 2 Re-Rolls
Mars-Class Battlecruiser (w/Sharks)
Dominator-Class Cruiser
Gothic-Class Cruiser (w/Ram)
3 Firestorms
3 Swords
And the Chaos list that stomped all over it:
Chaos Warmaster (MoK)
Chaos Lord (MoK)
Styx-Class Heavy Cruiser
Slaughter-Class Cruiser
Slaughter-Class Cruiser
3 Idolators
3 Infidels
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Nice! Good fleets.
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Dominator > Tyrant
Because Gothic fights at 30cm and Dominator as well.
Tyrants 45cm range is wasted
by original rules, BFG:R fixes this.
edit: you use Sharks on Mars, thus BFG:R, right?
Instead of Gothic/Tyrant because of your torpedo wish I advice two Lunars squadroned instead.
Dauntless is good, yes.
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You don't need BFG:R for sharks. Any Imperial carrier can take them? I thought. I'll have to check.
Your reasons influenced my initial choice, but the lack of torpedoes really hurt. What does BFG:R provide? A Dominator variant with torpedoes?
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Under official rules only the Emperor & Oberon BB can take sharks.
If you want more torpedoes and the Mars provides the initial NC shot I think two Lunars would be your best bet (under official rules).
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Under official rules only the Emperor & Oberon BB can take sharks.
Thanks for clearing that up.
If you want more torpedoes and the Mars provides the initial NC shot I think two Lunars would be your best bet (under official rules).
Here's, more or less, what my opponent today said, and I agree:
A tyrant and a gothic are roughly equivalent to two lunars, but the difference is that with a tyrant and a gothic, you have a really great lance boat and a really great gunboat. When you lose one, you still have a single great ship, you just need to work a little harder and use the rest of your list to keep it supported, whereas previously you could count on its now-destroyed partner to make it effective.
On the other hand, when you have two lunars, you have two mediocre multi-purpose boats. Together, they are just as powerful as a lance boat and a gunboat together, but when you lose one, all you have is one mediocre ship.
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Not entirely.
2 Lunars or 1 Gothic + 1 Dominator for that matter is: 12wb + 4lances per broadside.
With the Tyrant you lose 2wb per broadside. Not a lot... but:
2 Lunars = 360pts
Gothic + Dominator = 370pts
Gothic + Tyrant = 365pts
However to have some extra use to the Tyrant you must upgrade the range, so you are talking about a 375pts combo, thus being most expensive and least guns.
The Dominator is just great for the massed weapon batteries and the cheap nova cannon.
I do agree that the Lunars must be squadroned to be effective, which has some good but also bad effects.
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Being a primarily IN player myself, I can say with some certainty that Lunar have been pretty underwhelming for me as well. To be fair however, I really only played them against Eldar any real amount, and their firepower is bound to seem mediocre compared to those monstrosities the eldar call escorts. Particularly due to the fact that its hard to focus multiple ships on one of theirs due to their maneuverability and that lances are not the greatest against those pointy-eared gits ;D...but still.
Not sure how I feel about them so far....although I may change my opinion towards the better after I try them out against my regular opponents rapidly approaching construction chaos and expanding tau fleet.
On topic, good job on your first game. So you favor your torpedoes, eh? I'm more of a mixed assault kind of guy, probably why I like mixed Nova/Torpedoes in my fleet. And why I like FW tau.
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I think I like mixed nova/torpedoes, too. The list I was playing had too much nova and not enough torp. Nova cannons are great, but they're only effective during one part of each game. After that, they're dead weight. Also, they are way more effective alongside torpedo herding.
I think.
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Well, I don't have tried a NC Fleet list. But I usally field two NCs at 2k-Games. Like it on my Mars and on my Dominator. And it functions well enough for me.
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So, I recently came into about $35. Which would you recommend as my next purchase?
1) Two dauntlesses (probably one of each - and probably one built with the admech kit - but I'm open to suggestions).
2) One dauntless, one pack of cobras.
3) Something else (explain).
Thanks!
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One Lance-Dauntless, as buddy for the Firestorms. One pack of Cobras - good escorts so far.
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Also, I suppose I could get a strike cruiser or two to start my Space Marine fleet and use the Segmentum Solar list... though I'm much less excited about that possibility.
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Damn your awesome american prices....our dollar is stronger and yet the prices are still like 20% higher here in canada :'(
Truth be told, there is some pretty common rules of thumb for dauntlesses, and they are as such.
-Lance Dauntless is best in larger game, where it can operate at high efficiency when crippled (all it loses are a bit of speed and a bit of weaponry, but due to rounding up rule not much) and doesn't require SO to be effective
-It does work really well with firestorms as a powerful lance pack that can get where it is needed.
-The torpedo dauntless is better in smaller games, where its superior frontal armament can get strong ordnance to where it can do the most harm and SO are not at a premium
-All light cruisers work best with other vessels, but not necessarily in pairs like other cruisers. As has been mentioned, lance dauntless es work well with both firestorms and each other, whereas torpedo ones work well with cobras/falchions. The Voss pattern light cruisers (endurance etc...) work well with each other but also with full cruisers, where they double as maneuverable rear guard and additional punch without full cruiser price. Such as an endeavour with a pair of lunars, where it can intercept enemy torpedoes with its own weaker ones and lend enough battery to the broadside to let the lunars really shine. It can also soak up shots for them or hide behind them as the situation demands.
Kind of an unnecessary rant, but hopefully this will help with your decision.
Also, strike cruisers are underwhelming without the powerful SM escorts and battleships to fight alongside them. They just do not function that well with regular IN vessels.
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It sounds increasingly like the lance dauntless & cobras is my best choice. Btw, what counts as a "larger" game in your mind?
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Anything above 1250pts is a larger game to me, so typically 1500pts, or 2000pts.
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1500 is the standard around these parts. Anything above 1500 its "larger"
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Well, if you divide it into three categories, less than 1000pts is small, up to 1500pts or so is average and larger than that is large. Your such a nitpicker Dan :D ;)
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HECK YES I'M A NITPICKER. IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY ;D
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I like Tyrants for pretty much your same line of thought there. They pair better with an Armageddon than a Gothic tho (BFG-R excluded). There is nothing more frustrating when playing IN than having everything 33cm away EVERY TIME >:(. Ok bit of an overreaction maybe but I have never been disappointed for having extra range and Ive never really noticed the difference between 10 and 12 (or really 8 and 12 either *Overlord).
1500 is average, less is less more is more.
Check Ebay!!! I picked up 7 Daunts, 3 Firestorms, and 6 Cobras for about 60 bucks a few months back by keeping my eye on there, just dont ever pay more 75% of retail.
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So, actually I have $70!!! Picking up sub periods - one of the perks of my job. I guess I'll be getting two dauntlesses and a pack of cobras and some tokens.
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Yes, Ebay and forums are your friends.
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I also like the tyrants for the upgraded batteries. useful if you face holofield
btw
2 lunars are more versatile: average against holofield and armor 6
1 dominator & 1 gothic: dominator good against holofield, less so against armor 6; gothic good against armor 6 but much less useful against holofield
total power is the same but they will play different ... which is good
dictators imo is better than mars as an attack carrier.
and imo, nova cannon are terror weapons more so than an reliable killer