Specialist Arms Forum

Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: ElectricPaladin on February 14, 2013, 01:35:44 PM

Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 14, 2013, 01:35:44 PM
I'm about to put together my mechanicus dauntless, and I just want to be sure of your opinion - you haven't steered me wrong yet, and I've always regretted ignoring your collective advice so far - if I'm going to own two dauntlesses, I should make one a torpedo dauntless and fly it around with a bunch of cobras and make the other a lance dauntless and fly it around with firestorms.

Is that the accepted wisdom of what to do with one's first two dauntlesses? They're so little... it's not like I need two dauntlesses doing the same thing to be effective, or anything, right?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: Vaaish on February 14, 2013, 04:31:11 PM
I would take either 2 lance or 2 torp and squadron them.  Fast s12 torps can ruin a packed fleets day. Lance version if you think you'll see high armor, have plenty of wb to strip shields or like to brace a lot since you'll still have s4 lances you should be able to pepper a unshielded ship with.
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on February 14, 2013, 04:58:16 PM
Ya I would pick one type and get a pair of them, for Admech I would get two torp versions. Its doubtful you will be lacking in lances and you can get the special torps on them, it doesnt hurt that they will help boost your number of torps if you decide to grab a couple novas too.
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 14, 2013, 05:32:56 PM
Oddly, I thought about it and decided to go with one of each. It seems like it would be good to use dauntlesses as super-escorts alongside firestorms and cobras. Since I have some of each escort, it makes sense to have one of each dauntless.
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: horizon on February 14, 2013, 07:32:34 PM
Mechanicus Dauntless?
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 14, 2013, 07:35:14 PM
The lance one, yes. Should I do it the other way 'round?
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: horizon on February 14, 2013, 08:22:59 PM
But there is no Adeptus Mechanicus Dauntless.
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 14, 2013, 08:25:25 PM
I uded an admech light cruiser kit. Isn't it basically the same thing?
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: afterimagedan on February 14, 2013, 08:27:51 PM
Using one of each has some downsides because either you don't squadron them and you have to attempt a second special order, or you squadron them and have to worry about whether to lock-on or re-load them.
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: horizon on February 14, 2013, 08:32:36 PM
I uded an admech light cruiser kit. Isn't it basically the same thing?
No. The Dauntless has a much different hull. However if you build it as a Dauntless with a lance on the prow and tell it to your opponent(s) I don't think many would have issues with it.

On the Dauntless lance vs torp:
* lance is easier to use : lance shot on a 4+, 2 left when on BFI, always functions
* torpedo is harder to use bhut more destructive : ReLoad needed, but bypasses shields.

Token; 1 torpedo Dauntless can destroy a full healthy Battleship, 1 lance Dauntless will not even scratch the hull of the battleship.
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 14, 2013, 08:38:39 PM
So are there stats for admech light cruisers? I thought the mechanicus just used Imperial ships so the mechanicus might cruiser would be one of the Imperial light cruisers - ie. a dauntless, or one of the others.

Also, which dauntless do you prefer? If I were to stop at two, would you recommend two torpedo boats or two lance boats?
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: horizon on February 14, 2013, 08:42:41 PM
AdMech CL (or normal cruisers for that matter) are indeed the patterns of the IN vessels but with added things (extra dorsal lance, extra repair dice, gifts etc).

However in the AdMech list only the Defiant, Endurance and Endeavour are available as light cruisers, the Dauntless is not. Just as the Dominator, Mars aren't available either.

What I'd advice is depending on what the rest of the fleet has. Are you low on torpedoes add them, do you have enough torpedoes at lances.
Just try them before you make up your mind I think.
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: afterimagedan on February 14, 2013, 08:45:51 PM
I wrote up my own little tactica on IN that may be helpful. There are some comments in the end from others too. Hope it helps!

Imperial Navy Tactica (http://afterimagedan.blogspot.com/2012/06/tactica-imperial-navy.html)
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 14, 2013, 08:49:23 PM
I only get to play once a week so let me post a list of my collection and you can tell me what weapons you would build them with:

Emperor class battleship
Mars class battlecruiser
Tyrant class cruiser
Gothic class cruiser
Three sword class frigates
Three firestorm class frigates
Four cobra destroyers

I'm going to have to check the options for mechanicus light cruisers. I want to own a mechanicus fleet some day, so I don't want to waste this kit by building it in such a way that its *only* useful as an Imperium counts-as.
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 14, 2013, 09:00:59 PM
So, it looks like I can build the admech light cruiser kit in such a way that it can be used as either an endeavor or a torpedo dauntless. Good.
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: afterimagedan on February 14, 2013, 09:03:59 PM
That's a pretty nice collection there! I would recommend 2 more cruisers someday (I recommend line cruisers with torpedoes, though this is my bias coming out). Did you magnetize any of them? I highly recommend that too. It's cheap and easy! It's hard to advise you what to do because I favor a specific style of IN playing that sort of holds me back from ever really using an Emperor (unless I am trying something new, on occasion). Your Swords and Firestorms can make a nice "second punch" squadron that can hang back behind the big boys but still dish out tons of damage.  Same with the Cobras, but seem to me more a  refused flank guard.  I could consider swapping the Tyrant to a Dominator (though it pains me to say this because I love Tyrants...) so you have ore than 1 nova cannon.  1 Nova cannon won't cause much panic in the opposing player. 2, however, will. This will match with your Emperor's long range.
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 14, 2013, 09:06:36 PM
Of course, now I need to ask - are endeavors any good, or am I shooting my future theoretical admech fleet in the foot with that choice?
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 14, 2013, 09:10:39 PM
That's a pretty nice collection there!

Thanks. I have a problem. :-/.

I can't bring myself to magnetize them. Ships have so much... identity, you know? The Epsilon Eridani is a mars class battlecruiser. It's what she is! I can't imagine them dry-docking her to swap out those enormous banks if guns... it doesn't seem right. Not like swapping a predator's turret or a crisis suit's gun.
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on February 14, 2013, 11:52:22 PM
Endurance (Andrew means Endeavour) is nice, with plasma boosted batteries and the prow lance swap I could see a pair of these (or one and a Lunar maybe?) being particularly nasty
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 14, 2013, 11:59:06 PM
It also seems that endurance is to firestorms what dauntless is to cobras. And that's a combo that appeals. Two torpedo dauntlesses and a trio of cobras? That's 18 torpedoes and strength 11 broadsides. Two endurances and a trio of firestorms? That's strength 7 lances, strength 10 guns... Wow.

So I got a second dauntless kit. I'll build my admech kit - and my second admech kit, too - as an endourance.
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: horizon on February 15, 2013, 05:29:39 AM
In the AdMech list I prefer the Endeavour to the Endurance.
a) lances is not an issue in the AdMech list, the Endeavour even brings one.
b) the weapon batteries can be improved with range, so the Endeavour gets a healthy good broadside at 45cm already,
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on February 15, 2013, 12:48:02 PM
Crud, i always get those two confused >: I intended my comment to be for which ever one comes with broadside batteries instead of lances :P.
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: horizon on February 15, 2013, 12:52:35 PM
Heh, can happen.
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 15, 2013, 01:32:05 PM
Crud, i always get those two confused >: I intended my comment to be for which ever one comes with broadside batteries instead of lances :P.

I went and built the lance one on your say-so! D:

Actually, I think I'm ok with that. You may get a lot of lances in the admech fleet, it's true, but in an Imperial fleet, I think the lance one is pretty good. You can use it as a super-escort for firestorms and unload a ton of lances into things. Dauntless and cobras, endurance and firestorms. It's a match made in Holy Terra, right?

Right?

Right?

:P. Anyway, unless someone tells me that the endurance is a categorically bad choice for some reason, I'm ok with it. I'm sure I'll end up with another admech light kit at some point and I can make that one an endeavor.
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on February 15, 2013, 05:11:07 PM
I dont think you will be disappointed with it really, assuming you take the prow lance over the two torps your going to be looking at basically the same lance firepower as a Dauntless but with a better fire arc. Mix it up with a small group of Nova frigates and your would have quite the prickly pear there. The only realy benefit to the gun battery version is that it can get the 45cm range on its guns.
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 15, 2013, 05:17:41 PM
Where are there rules for endurances getting more prow lances? I don't see those in Armada...
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: horizon on February 15, 2013, 05:42:55 PM
In the admech rules they can add 1 dorsal lance, but that means dropping the two torpedoes.
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 15, 2013, 05:45:51 PM
And I can do that when using it as an imperium ship because under 2010 FAQ rules I can take admech allies. Right?
Title: Re: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: horizon on February 15, 2013, 07:20:02 PM
If you follow the guidelines and reserve rules: yes you can.
Title: Dauntlesses - Lance or Missile
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 15, 2013, 09:35:21 PM
Now I'm going to add some red to my firestorms and say that the captains have been inducted into the cult mechanicum as lay priests! That way I can team them up with my endurance as Imperial ships or use them in a Mechanicus fleet!