Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: afterimagedan on March 07, 2013, 04:39:25 AM
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Please pick one of the 3 options for the Victory Battleship for Battlefleet Bakka:
Option 1 (Vaaish retracted option):
365
12 hits 20cm speed 4 shields 6+/5+ 4 turrets
P/S lances 4 60cm
P/S WB 6 60cm
Dorsal WBs 6 60cm
Nova cannon (-10pts to switch to 9 torps)
Option 2 (afterimagedan option):
365
12 hits 20cm speed 4 shields 6+/5+ 4 turrets
P/S lances 6 45cm
Dorsal WBs 9 60cm
Nova cannon (-10pts to switch to 9 torps)
Option 3 (original):
345
12 hits 20cm speed 4 shields 6+/5+ 4 turrets
P/S lances 4 60cm
Dorsal WBs 6 60cm
Nova cannon (-10pts to switch to 9 torps)
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With the original on the table I'm retracting my version in favor of the original. It's the first option. My belief is that we should only make changes that are absolutely necessary and I don't think this one makes the cut.
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The original isn't bad. At 335 pts you get a slow Desolator with 6+ prow armour. That's pretty decent.
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The original isn't bad. At 335 pts you get a slow Desolator with 6+ prow armour. That's pretty decent.
Weirdly, for once we're in agreement
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I propose a merge:
355
12 hits 20cm speed 4 shields 6+/5+ 4 turrets
P/S lances 4 60cm
Dorsal WBs 9(!) 60cm
Nova cannon (-10pts to switch to 9 torps)
+10pts to change lances to 6@45cm(!)
-10pts to drop nova for torpedoes
(we could even make the dorsal 9wb upgrade from 6wb an option if you like)
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That seems rather unnecessarily complicated. I maintain leaving the original.
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How complicated is it really? I mean, look at the Grand Cruisers and all their upgrades now. Two options is nothing.
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Bad example. That's unnecessarily complicated as well. Doing it once doesn't justify doing it again.
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It does set a precedent for it to occur again. Totally fair example.
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I suppose you are also against all the Grand Cruiser changes, especially the Exorcist, the Mars, the Mercury, the Overlord, and the Tyrant, which all have 2 options? They are too complicated?
Anyways, looks like we are about 50/50 on this one so I'm trying to work out a compromise and middle ground. With this option, both sides can use their ship.
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I suppose you are also against all the Grand Cruiser changes, especially the Exorcist, the Mars, the Mercury, the Overlord, and the Tyrant, which all have 2 options? They are too complicated?
In all fairness, only one of those is a Grand Cruiser.
Relax. I don't like some of the new Grand Cruiser changes myself. But I sort of shrug and go 'eh'.
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My point is, all the Grand Cruisers have more than one option in BFG:R.
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Eh. The grand cruisers have always been oddballs though.
I like the Vic as is. Unless you want to give her a +5cm Speed option. I'd take that.
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Again, we have a 50/50 voting here. I am merely trying to compromise and have it so both groups can be happy with this at the mere cost of 1 more option to the ship. ;)
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You forget that compromise means neither side is happy. If there is no consensus, leave it alone. That usually means that whatever changes being made are not needed and the ship is fine as is. I'd wager votes for the retribution changes had far more consensus than this round.
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This is less of a compromise and more of the answer that makes both sides happy, assuming they don't take a "my way or the highway" approach. It seems obvious to me. Put one option in there so all can use they ship they want. That is pure compromise and everybody can use the ship they want. Honestly, have you not read the stats we are talking about? Essentially, all I can think of is that you want your way available only, even though this change, as minimal as it is, caters to everyone. It doesn't have to be an either or here.
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Honestly, have you not read the stats we are talking about? Essentially, all I can think of is that you want your way available only, even though this change, as minimal as it is, caters to everyone. It doesn't have to be an either or here.
I've read through multiple times and I've been reading the back log of BFGR threads. What I want is proof that a change even needs to happen, not assumption that a change should happen. Placing the original back on the table is tantamount to saying we don't have good reason for making a change here or that what we are doing isn't any better than the original.
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Placing the original back on the table is tantamount to saying we don't have good reason for making a change here or that what we are doing isn't any better than the original.
Absolutely not true. Half the people want to see a different Victory and so why not take the original and add one option so that everyone has a Victory that they like. It's really simple. If we changed the Victory to the 45cm profile, haf the people would not be happy. If we kept it the same, half the people would not be happy. Add one option, all are happy, unless someone want's to be stubborn about it and not allow for this obvious fix.
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We could just vote on it. I closed this vote because the new one has the "merge" option and it took out the retracted Vaaish option.