Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: afterimagedan on April 02, 2013, 06:46:07 AM
-
Battleships:
Emperor
Retribution
0-1 Nemesis
Battlecruisers
Mars
Jovian
Overlord
Cruisers:
Tyrant
Gothic
Dictator
Lunar
Dominator
Dauntless
Siluria
Escorts:
Firestorm
Sword
Cobra
This is the list Baron posted about Corribra. Any thoughts on where to go with this list?
Personally, I would like it to be difficult to get straight gun cruisers. It doesn't sit right that they can just take however many Lunars, Gothics, Dominators (!), and Tyrants they want.
Here are the changes I would like to see:
-add Exorcist, Enforcer, Jovian, Dominion, Tempest, Oberon
-no more than half ships may not have launch bays.
-battleships can take the torpedo bombers refit for cheaper than normal.
-any capital ship can upgrade to include assault boats for +5pts.
-
BFG Magazine #1, Battlefleet Corriba
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-aXA8fc5AQ8SUJkMnl5XzF6eEE/edit?usp=sharing
-
http://web.archive.org/web/20030318055654/http://www.altsain.clara.net/corrfightingbattle.htm
For the site that the pdf refers to.
And, wow, did all these rules committees just fold up and go silent while I was gone?
-
Which ones? Whats that a backhanded encouragement to continue working?
-
Well, I got back from my ban and found... no posts since the day after my ban. Just wondered if we were working on extra double secret lists now or something.
-
The tyranid group has been talking daily. Daemon ship discussion has been daily.
-
Daemonships have, sure, but other than your last post in the nids one, the most recent post was the 1st there as well.
-
OK so what's your point?
-
That we're suddenly missing a lot of people who normally post a lot.
-
In terms of fleet list changes I would definitely say that it shouldn't have anything with Nova Cannons (i.e. no Dominator or Nova armed Tyrants). Leaving in the Lunar is fine since they are everywhere, but having a restriction like at least half the fleet must be carriers makes sense.
Dragon Lord
-
I'd say 1 carrier gets you two non carriers. Exorcist is sort of redundant with Jovian in there, though Oberon would be a nice addition.
Frigates will definitely need to be exempt from this since the only regular IN frigate to carry lbs is the tempest and it only does aboats. (And IIRC has no official stats for BFG yet)
The torp bomber thing might be broken with Jovian and Nemesis though. I think a better idea would be the ability to buy an upgrade that gives AC the 'resilient' rule.
-
Excellent Pilots. The ship is famed for the skill
of its pilots. The well-timed attack runs of its
bombers can cause horrendous damage while
its fighter pilots fly rings around enemy attack
craft. Any bombers launched by this ship may
re-roll the dice when determining how many To
Hit rolls they have. If fighters from this ship
intercept attack craft or torpedoes, roll a D6. On
a score of 4+ the fighters are not removed as
normal but remain in play. Re-roll this skill if
the ship does not carry attack craft. Eldar
players should re-roll this skill
Just roll that into the points cost for each carrier, dont give them the option for it just do it.
-
Pretty neat idea to ponder further on Andrew.
In essence: ordnance like Eldar.
@ BaronI, that would mean about 2-3 carriers in a 1500pts fleet, depending on what the carrier is. Or 4 smaller ones in a light cruiser fleet. Correct?
-
I'd say 1 carrier gets you two non carriers. Exorcist is sort of redundant with Jovian in there, though Oberon would be a nice addition.
Exorcist can be redundant with the Jovian and still being the list, just like the overlap of the imperial cruisers. Being redundant doesn't prevent other ships from being in lists.
Frigates will definitely need to be exempt from this since the only regular IN frigate to carry lbs is the tempest and it only does aboats. (And IIRC has no official stats for BFG yet)
Agreed.
The torp bomber thing might be broken with Jovian and Nemesis though. I think a better idea would be the ability to buy an upgrade that gives AC the 'resilient' rule.
I like the direction that's going.
Andrew, I think that's an awesome idea for giving them that carrier edge. Because of the lore of taking damaged ships and fitting them with launch bays because its easier, they should need a certain amount of carriers in the fleet. I personally think carriers should be more of a 1:1 for non-carriers, because 1:2 isn't much of a restriction.
-
The Excellent Pilots upgrade is a nice idea, I'm not sure I'd want it as standard on every carrier though.
I agree with afterimagedan about 1:1 for the carriers rather than 1:2, 2-3 carriers in 1500pts is a plausible standard fleet.
Dragon Lord
-
The Excellent Pilots upgrade is a nice idea, I'm not sure I'd want it as standard on every carrier though.
In regular BFG, giving an Ork ship a warlord unlocks various upgrade options - allowing you to purchase "Mad Meks" or "Looted Torpedoes". What if the upgraded pilots thingy was an option unlocked by placing the admiral aboard the ship?
This would have a drawback due to the "0-1 admiral" limitation, making it underwhelming for particularly large battles. You could try solving that by re-introducing "Veteran Captains" from the Cadian lists and giving them the option to get the expert pilots, but Veteran Captains are only in the Cadian list due to the reduced leadership of all the other ships.
:-\
My suggestion probably causes more problems than it solves.
-
Actually BFGR has opened the veteran captians up to other fleets in the same fashion as chaos lords so thats an option to look at.
-
There has been an idea to separate upgrades from commanders in Ork fleet, though... But seeing that Orks really need a boost while Imperials don't, giving veteran captain access to resilient ordnance might be a good idea.
Giving it to whole fleet is kind of unfair for factions that had it before.
-
Ok, so:
Battleships:
Emperor
Retribution
Oberon
0-1 Nemesis
Grand Cruisers:
Exorcist
Battlecruisers
Mars
Jovian
Dominion
Overlord
Cruisers:
Tyrant
Gothic
Dictator
Lunar
Dominator
Dauntless
Siluria
Enforcer
Escorts:
Firestorm
Sword
Cobra
+Excellent Pilots upgrade available for purchase by any commander or captain?
+Any capital ship can take Assault Boats for +5pts.
+Half or more of the capital ships in the fleet must have launch bays.
Do you guys want to talk about the Tempest being included?
-
I know Retribution was in the original list, but I feel like completely launch bay-less battleship feels out of place in this fleet.
If it was up to me, i'd swap it for Reprisal from Book of Nemesis [hell, we already have lots of Nemesis ships floating around, why not one more ;)]. And Reprisal is basically a Retribution with one set of guns swapped for launch bays.
-
Khar, I am totally on board for that. I thought that about the Ret too.
-
Eh, the reason for the 1-2 ratio is balance and to give the player some room when making their selections. As far as the Retribution goes: aside from my natural abhorrence of putting anything from BoN in BFG at all (How about those Chaos Fast Battleships?), I'm just not a big fan of it. It's fluff has it as a line breaker with LBs, but it's stats really don't match that. Worse, it's frankly inferior to Oberon for more points.
-
I agree about the Retribution being a bit of an oddball in this list, but to be honest I don't see why it needs to be replaced with anything, 2 plus a 0-1 is enough battleship options for a standard fleet list.
-
From what I have read from the Corribra fluff, they are limited on ships and refit damaged ships with launch bays often. This is the reason for the restriction as well as 1:2 or really not enough of restriction because its pretty much not a restriction. Imperial fleets will take carriers and 1:2 is about what other fleets will look like anyways.
-
Did this get voted on yet
-
It sort of halted. Lack of interest. Maybe a candidate for additional ships compendium 2?
-
Glad you got my pm
-
if you want I can take point on starting that. as well I would be Proof reading nids tonight but my power is out.
-
No need to ask me! It's a whole different project!
-
Would you host it with bfg r? The point would be to make them compatible with those rules so it should be accessible with them as well.
-
Either way, they would be separate documents. I think the document could say that it is made to be comparable with BFG:R.
-
Sorry, have quite a few irons in the fire atm to focus on this in the manner needed. Trying to get three sites working properly,design a new line of ship minis, and get my own fleet ready for Gothcomp. I'm busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.
-
Long time no see Baron!
-
Long time no see Baron!
Eh, Only a few weeks. I've had a lot on my plate since GW suddenly dropped SG etc. Plus the release of an OW book that needed reviewed, the ongoing overhaul of Dark Reign, plus two other sites I run... blagh.
-
My proposed list:
Battleships:
Emperor
Retribution (may only be taken with a Solar Admiral?)
0-1 Nemesis
Oberon (Reprisal from BoN instead? This would add some unique flare.)
Battlecruisers
Mars
Jovian (needs this list as its new home)
Overlord
Dominion (needs this list as its new home)
Cruisers:
Tyrant
Gothic
Dictator
Lunar
Dominator
Dauntless (Enforcer upgrade. see the Bakka discussion from earlier 2013)
Siluria
Escorts:
Firestorm
Sword
Cobra (this is a bland escort layout. Should we vary it up a bit? Add the Tempest?)
-You may not have more ships without launch bays than you do with launch bays.
-Any battleship can upgrade to include assault boats for +5pts.
-Excellent Pilots (integrated into point cost of each carrier option). The ship is famed for the skill of its pilots. The well-timed attack runs of its bombers can cause horrendous damage while its fighter pilots fly rings around enemy attack craft. Any bombers launched by this ship may re-roll the dice when determining how many To Hit rolls they have. If fighters from this ship intercept attack craft or torpedoes, roll a D6. On a score of 4+ the fighters are not removed as normal but remain in play.
-
Didn't you want to work this into ASC 2.0? Though I am good with it being an official part of BFG:R as well. Just curious as to your intentions...
-
I like the idea of adding the reprisal (and/or replacing the Retribution with it).
-
Didn't you want to work this into ASC 2.0? Though I am good with it being an official part of BFG:R as well. Just curious as to your intentions...
I would like to see it in BFG:R, personally.
-
The other option I think would be good for Corribra instead of the Expert Pilots rule would be to give them +1Ld to RO. Considering ordnance is what Battlefleet Corribra knows and also that they have made do with replacing damaged weapons with launch bays, launching fighters/bombers/assault boats must be totally second nature to them. I am not really sure about the Excellent Pilots upgrade because having a whole fleet with this much ordnance and resilient fighters may be overpowered. Considering there may be a Nemesis, a Jovian, and two Dictators in one fleet, you won't need that many resilient fighters to tip the ordnance meta-game in your favor. I think the Corribra fleets should still need lots of ordnance to play to their advantage. The Expert Pilots rule would actually allow you to play with less ordnance if it is mandatory. Personally, I think the +1ld to RO should be written into their rules and allow for Excellent Pilots to be a purchased upgrade, possibly an upgrade a secondary commander can take, or an upgrade only the Ld10 admiral comes with, representing the best pilots being picked for the admiral's ship. This could be an upgrade that costs a certain amount per launch bay strength on the ship to keep the cost appropriate.
The +1Ld to RO would more so bring consistency in ordnance launching. Let's leave resilient for the other fleets and just bring the consistency of the regular IN ordnance for Corribra.
-
I like the +1 LD to RO better, plus it helps mitigate the downsides of taking a Nemesis or Jovian.
As for the fleet list, I feel the CA have to many gun choices. May I suggest dropping the Dominator, which is suppossed to be rare outside of Ultima Segmentum anyways (Corribra is in Tempestus). It is okay to have one less CA option IMO since there are 4 BC options. If you really want to add the Endeavour and Defiant to replace the loss of the Dominator.
As for the Escorts, I say loose the sword and cobra, take the Havoc and Viper class.
-
Some of the gun choices are there because those choices are in the original Corribra fleet. I would personally be comfortable dropping the Dominator though, considering there was only one and it would be easy to get 1 Dominator in a Corribra fleet through reserves.
-
Some of the gun choices are there because those choices are in the original Corribra fleet. I would personally be comfortable dropping the Dominator though, considering there was only one and it would be easy to get 1 Dominator in a Corribra fleet through reserves.
I saw that and figured the same (just forgot to say as much), as well the original corribra fleet was written back long before there were even multiple fleet lists and reserves existed, so ideas of different ship's weren't a factor at the time. I feel this is a chance for the community to alter that to better match the overall fluff.
-
Battleships:
Emperor
Retribution (may only be taken with a Solar Admiral?)
0-1 Nemesis
Reprisal
Battlecruisers
Mars
0-1 Jovian
Overlord
Dominion
Cruisers:
Tyrant
Gothic
Dictator
Lunar
0-1 Dominator
Dauntless (Enforcer upgrade. see the Bakka discussion from earlier 2013)
Siluria
Escorts:
Firestorm
Sword
Cobra
0-1 Tempest squadron
-You may not have more ships without launch bays than you do ships with launch bays.
-Any battleship can upgrade to include assault boats for +5pts.
-BFC ships get +1 to Ld for re-roll ordnance rolls.
-Excellent Pilots (may be taken on any ship with an admiral at +5pts per point of launch capacity. ). The ship is famed for the skill of its pilots. The well-timed attack runs of its bombers can cause horrendous damage while its fighter pilots fly rings around enemy attack craft. Any bombers launched by this ship may re-roll the dice when determining how many To Hit rolls they have. If fighters from this ship intercept attack craft or torpedoes, roll a D6. On a score of 4+ the fighters are not removed as normal but remain in play.
What do you guys think about this? This list would need work on the Nemesis (maybe), Reprisal (which I think would be a great way to vary this fleet from the other IN fleets), and the Tempests.
-
I honestly think changing the Cobra to the Viper at least would be good.
As for the reworked Nemesis and Reprisal, we did that in the ASC 2.0 IN thread and had a generally agreed upon stat line there
Nemesis Class Battleship- 375
Hits: 12
Speed: 15cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 4
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 5
Weapons:
Port LB- Furies: 30cm Starhawks: 20cm Assault Boats: 30cm S: 6
Stbd LB- Furies: 30cm Starhawks: 20cm Assault Boats: 30cm S: 6
Dorsal Lances: R: 60cm S: 3
Special Rules: Prow sensors +1LD, Cannot use Come to New Heading SO. May take ABs for +5 pts.
Reprisal Class BB- 370
Hits: 12
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 4
Armour: 5+/6+ Front
Turrets: 5 4
Weapons
Port WB- R: 45cm S: 12 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 45cm S: 12 Arc: R
Port LB- Furies: 30cm Starhawks: 20cm Assault Boats: 30cm S: 2 Arc:-
Port LB- Furies: 30cm Starhawks: 20cm Assault Boats: 30cm S: 2 Arc:-
Dorsal lances- R: 60cm S: 3 Arc: L/F/R
Prow Torpedoes- Speed: 30cm S: 9 Arc: F
Special Rules: Cannot use come to new heading. +5 pts for Assault Boats.
I think these are fine and can be voted on for Corribra. It would take them out of ASC 2.0, but in an official BFG:R list is just a good a place if not better.
For Bakka and Corribra, you are going to put them and their ships in the Imperial Navy document and just put the fleet lists at the end, correct?
-
Good question. I think it may be good to have a bakka and corribra document. What about that?
-
Good question. I think it may be good to have a bakka and corribra document. What about that?
I don't think so. It would just make someone have to jump around when list building and thinking about reserves, especially other Imperial factions like SM and Ad Mech. Just easier to have one document. And there isn't THAT much fluff for the 2 other fleets, so you just do a page or two of fluff and then the fleet list. Keep the ships up in the ship profile section.
And for the rule about ships without launch bays exceeding those with
1- Should not apply to escorts. So it should read more Capital Ships etc. etc.
2- I think the 0-1 restriction on the Jovian should be lifted. Otherwise you'll just end up with alot of Mars and Dictators.