Specialist Arms Forum

Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: starfox1701 on May 07, 2013, 02:17:06 AM

Title: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: starfox1701 on May 07, 2013, 02:17:06 AM
Just a question, with the demise of both the GW and FW BFG model lines sooner or later someone will start making new ones and I was wondering if we could do the sips over what would you keep and what would you change?
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on May 07, 2013, 03:39:16 AM
Space stations. The GW ones are crap, barely suitable as orbitals and certainly nothing like the picture in the BBB.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: Armiger84 on May 07, 2013, 03:53:55 AM
Space stations. The GW ones are crap, barely suitable as orbitals and certainly nothing like the picture in the BBB.

+1.

When they rolled out their "space station/orbital dock" model... it was not what I had in mind.

As for scale and detail.  Detail's very important for me.  If I really wanted to just push colored markers around on a table, I'd get some cardboard circles and write ship classes on them.  Scale... As long as things are reasonably to scale with each other, I'm happy.  I feel like the BFG ships were pretty well done in that regard, certainly within each fleet to each other.

Across fleets, well, there's definitely a difference in displacement between a Retribution and a Desolator, and yet they're both 12 hull points, for example.  Chalk most of that up to the stylistic differences in hull shape, but the chaos stuff definitely seems more massive than the imperial stuff.  That said, I'm not sure my longer, thinner plastic chaos battleship is that much better of a solution, since it breaks the proportionate ratios.  Tough call on that.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on May 07, 2013, 04:03:56 AM
I dont think the Chaos/ Imperial BBs are that far off but the official Ork ships sure seem too small to me. The difference between a Repulsive and a Vengance is pretty bad tho.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: starfox1701 on May 07, 2013, 06:58:37 AM
So detail is a big thing and you guys would want as much as possible. Obviously bigger models are able to handle more detail but how much bigger would be to big? obviously the same question applies to station models?
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on May 07, 2013, 07:23:29 AM
Do you mean what would be too big for model size?

The lengths for Imp/Chaos are roughly:

Battleships 120-140mm

Grand/heavy/battle/standard/cruisers 95-115mm

Lightcruisers 75mm

Frigate 40-50mm

Destroyer 30-40mm

Title: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: avien on May 07, 2013, 10:18:25 AM
It's been said already but detail of the models is extremely important otherwise why bother with minis at all.

I love the look of the fleets, it's really critical for me to enjoy painting and playing with something that it at least look like it belongs in the universe.

If nothing else this is going to make me try my hand a scratch building. I've been looking at all the models and they are collections of simple geometric shapes, likely originally sculpted from plasticard.... Oh it sounds soooo easy ha! I followed the magnozac's construction efforts of the Zeus frigate/cruiser/ destroyer over on resin addict. They all look superb but that guy is a pro at this stage and it takes months to turn out a nice looking piece. And they still can't be sold or GW will sue... I'd love a few of those Zeus models, but alas...

I would like to see a few monstrous stations though. I think as regards scale of fleets to one another it helps of you remember that the model is only a representation of the ship which only actually occupies the space of the stem on the table. A speck in the interstellar void.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: starfox1701 on May 07, 2013, 05:04:46 PM
Do you mean what would be too big for model size?

The lengths for Imp/Chaos are roughly:

Battleships 120-140mm

Grand/heavy/battle/standard/cruisers 95-115mm

Lightcruisers 75mm

Frigate 40-50mm

Destroyer 30-40mm

Yes how much bigger could they get before the models are too big?
Title: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: avien on May 07, 2013, 05:11:56 PM
Do you mean what would be too big for model size?

The lengths for Imp/Chaos are roughly:

Battleships 120-140mm

Grand/heavy/battle/standard/cruisers 95-115mm

Lightcruisers 75mm

Frigate 40-50mm

Destroyer 30-40mm

Yes how much bigger could they get before the models are too big?

I would say they can't really go much above those scales. Look at firestorm armada, they aren't exactly loads bigger than BFG but put them side by side and they just look off...
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: Seahawk on May 07, 2013, 05:23:50 PM
Yea, no bigger, no smaller. Anything else is silly.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: afterimagedan on May 07, 2013, 05:27:53 PM
I agree, I really like to have the scale matched.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: Jimmy Zimms on May 07, 2013, 05:46:04 PM
I rank quality highest but scale is a close second. I've got Firestorm Armada in my collection for BFG uses but it very limited as scales don't mesh inside of fleets well.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on May 07, 2013, 06:31:19 PM
I could go a little longer or wider but not much for existing classes. A FSA dreadnaught ~170mm would in my mind ring in at around 15+ hits. Of course the PK is 15 hits already but its pretty poorly scaled to the other ships.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: starfox1701 on May 08, 2013, 06:32:30 AM
So for example a 10" (250mm) imperial style hull would not be well received as a bb replacement?
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: horizon on May 08, 2013, 06:37:58 AM
Like that. It'll be to big/out of scale.
Title: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: avien on May 08, 2013, 07:52:15 AM

Like that. It'll be to big/out of scale.

Agree with horizon, it would be way too big as a battleship/ barge - more than 100mm longer than current models.

I'd even say that it would be too big for a super battleship...
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on May 08, 2013, 07:58:45 AM
Ya thats space hulk territory, 10" may be a bit big for that even.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: Seahawk on May 08, 2013, 03:24:16 PM
Yea, that's definitely larger than Space Hulk size.

Remember too, that ships tend to get close in, and the bigger the model, the more annoying it will be to play with/against.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: starfox1701 on May 08, 2013, 04:54:16 PM
Even if the rest of the replacement models are using the same 1 inch = 1 km scale?
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: Seahawk on May 08, 2013, 04:58:14 PM
Then it's all exceedingly tedious and unpleasant to play unless you double/triple all ranges for everything.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: starfox1701 on May 08, 2013, 05:14:42 PM
I thought rang was always measured from the stem regardless of a model's size? Why would bigger minis require such a drastic change in the rules?
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: Seahawk on May 08, 2013, 06:15:18 PM
So that they stay farther away and the biggerizing of the models doesn't have an effect on gameplay.

There's a reason this is played on the floor. ;)

http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1612165/star-trek-attack-wing
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: starfox1701 on May 08, 2013, 08:46:13 PM
we should so do that ;D On the serious side so something very close would be best. Does any one have a preference on what the models are made of?
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: Jimmy Zimms on May 08, 2013, 08:50:20 PM
we should so do that ;D On the serious side so something very close would be best. Does any one have a preference on what the models are made of?
Obtanium please. The current prices on Unobtanium are bankrupting me. :D
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: Nex on May 08, 2013, 09:14:05 PM
One of the strange things I feel is that it isn't exactly the level of detail but how what detail there is is used.

For me Chaos, Imperal and Eldar are the 3 "hardest to copy" styles (in my opinion Orks and Nids have no problem because they are so scratchbuild/kitbash friendly).

The more naval nature of the Chaos and Imperial ships is for me something which doesn't mesh with a great deal of other space ship miniatures out there which have more of a sleek traditional scifi design. Turrets and "gun decks" aren't really much of a thing for most space ship miniatures out there.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: afterimagedan on May 08, 2013, 09:28:22 PM
One of the strange things I feel is that it isn't exactly the level of detail but how what detail there is is used.

For me Chaos, Imperal and Eldar are the 3 "hardest to copy" styles (in my opinion Orks and Nids have no problem because they are so scratchbuild/kitbash friendly).

The more naval nature of the Chaos and Imperial ships is for me something which doesn't mesh with a great deal of other space ship miniatures out there which have more of a sleek traditional scifi design. Turrets and "gun decks" aren't really much of a thing for most space ship miniatures out there.

I totally agree with this. Tyranids, Orks, Dark Eldar (scratch building), Tau (hopefully with a scratch building guide coming from Khar), and Admech seem to be somewhat easy to come up with a fleet for.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: Dragon Lord on May 08, 2013, 09:40:18 PM
I thought rang was always measured from the stem regardless of a model's size? Why would bigger minis require such a drastic change in the rules?

They wouldn't, BFG ships are 'representations' rather than supposed to be in scale with the scenery on the tabletop.  The issue would be WYSIWYG, people go by the sizes of the ships to judge what to expect of it, something that was dramatically larger or smaller than other ships of the same class would throw people off.

Quote
For me Chaos, Imperal and Eldar are the 3 "hardest to copy" styles (in my opinion Orks and Nids have no problem because they are so scratchbuild/kitbash friendly).
I would agree that 'nids and Orks the easiest to scratchbuild for, but Imperial and Chaos are by no means impossible, I give my Dauntless as an example:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/DragonK7/BFG/log153.jpg)

Dragon Lord
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: starfox1701 on May 09, 2013, 06:09:10 PM
Been thinking and it might be best if the dimensions of the new models do not perfectly match the old models. One of the reasons that GW went after Chapterhouse was that the parts where obviously made for use on GW models. Insuring that the new parts can't fit old models without some modification would be an obvous protection against GW's interference.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: Jimmy Zimms on May 09, 2013, 06:19:52 PM
impossible, I give my Dauntless as an example:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/DragonK7/BFG/log153.jpg)

Dragon Lord

I fail to see a Dauntless anywhere in your thread. I see an awesome scratch built spaceship that in no way resembles anything from they who shall not be named.  :-X

Been thinking and it might be best if the dimensions of the new models do not perfectly match the old models. One of the reasons that GW went after Chapterhouse was that the parts where obviously made for use on GW models. Insuring that the new parts can't fit old models without some modification would be an obvous protection against GW's interference.

Overly cautious perhaps but nothing that should hurt us in the community by being so. Frankly existing lines from companies should be fine for the supplies that already exist. Adding some varioation on new IP neutral lines wouldn't hurt. IANAIPL but let's not poke the bear, so to speak.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: starfox1701 on May 12, 2013, 12:49:09 AM
Question is there anything published on the design thought process that went into any of the BFG ships?
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: Seahawk on May 12, 2013, 01:09:48 AM
US White Dwarf 225 has a little bit, and I think it's the most you're going to find anywhere.
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: starfox1701 on May 12, 2013, 04:03:56 AM
Can't seam to find a copy, could someone post the relevant pages?
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: horizon on May 12, 2013, 05:48:44 AM
I don't know which number, but one WD had the process on the Eldar (Corsair).
Title: Re: How important is scale and detail on you minis and what details do you want?
Post by: starfox1701 on May 13, 2013, 05:06:29 PM
So no one has the pages they could post or PM me?