Specialist Arms Forum

Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: Dave on May 13, 2013, 04:12:38 PM

Title: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Dave on May 13, 2013, 04:12:38 PM
I'm curious, so I'm doing a bit of market research. Say I hired a contact sculptor to make 10mm Goat Guys and:


Would you buy an army? If so, how many units would be in that army?

Would you not be interested in a Goat Guy army but might buy another?
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: David Wasilewski on May 13, 2013, 04:34:16 PM
It would all depend on the quality of the sculpts of course - would need to see some core units already master modelled, like Ch + Evil's Ogre line.

But I'd support it with a warmaster 2K army list, maybe more.

Dave
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: BlackEd on May 13, 2013, 05:08:28 PM
It would depend on the quality of the sculpts.  The 6mm beastkin army that recently appeared looks really good, if a bit tiny.

Eureka and Pendraken both have options, but am not sure what each line has to offer.

What material would the figures get cast in?  Resin? Metal?

Do they come pre-painted?

Wait, why not launch a kickstarter project?
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: andys on May 13, 2013, 06:11:33 PM
Now that GW are rapidly pulling out of 10mm, why not do ersatz replacements for their armies?

Maybe start with the ones that no one else does - so probably not Orcs, as Copplestone have more or less got that covered. Empire Halberdiers/Crossbows/Handgunners = Imperial Spearmen/Bowmen/Musketeers?

Presumably you've also looked at Eureka's range to see what they do?

As others have said, the quality of the figures and how well they fit in with GW figures will be the making (or breaking!) of them.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Dave on May 13, 2013, 06:24:44 PM
Plan would be metal, and KS is an option. I'm just feeling out where some interest is. Assuming $1000 to sculpt/mold and start casting a unit you're looking at 100 sales at $10 each.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: David Wasilewski on May 13, 2013, 07:45:37 PM
I agree, kickstarter would be the way to go.
You'd need some concept art and a couple of sculpts up front. That would be your only 'risk.'

The rest..... you wouldn't have to put your hand into your pocket if you didn't get enough interest.

Dave
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: wellspring on May 13, 2013, 08:24:40 PM
I like the idea in principle, but I don't have much interest in this army concept in particular.

What I'd prefer to see is piece-wise replacement of in-demand figures, rather than whole armies. The second-hand market will no doubt be very strong (if pricey) for several years. Plus you have Eureka providing some great niche concepts. They're probably the ones who will inherit the high-end 10mm pure fantasy market. The historical lines, of course, have always been strong and can be the backbone of a fantasy army as well. Add in a few heroes and some nice paint jobs, and that War of the Roses army suddenly can fight the War of the Ring or the War of the Five Kings.

Copplestone (for example) has a strong line of minis, right? Either get Mark to finish the line as a contract job, or (more likely, given the eyestrain that 10mm reportedly gave him) get a comparable sculptor to produce complementary minis of similar style and quality.

If we use fan financing at all, then I suggest we use it to help one or two companies like Eureka to take over the market now that GW is gone. As a fan project, we depend on one or two hobbyists to carry the whole load-- and who have to keep carrying it, over time. As a reward for one of the companies that has been with us for years, something that makes them some money at low risk and hands them a market they've always supported, we make it a profitable and low-risk move for a small company that wants our business. A company that can then support the line they produce for the long haul, over time.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Edmund2011 on May 13, 2013, 08:28:37 PM
Seems intersting.

Would you buy an army? If so, how many units would be in that army?


The question too is: what would be the price of a blister/unit?

It is important to plan-out an army... ;)

Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: kyussinchains on May 13, 2013, 08:40:10 PM
I might well be interested, although prefer the huge skirmishing horde of goat-men to tight regimented blocks.... not sure about how easy that would be to model....

if they were affordable, I think I'd pick up an army's worth certainly

Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: forofo27 on May 13, 2013, 09:31:52 PM
Kickstarter ??? Yes Sir  ;)

Fancy armies and good price.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Dave on May 13, 2013, 09:40:27 PM
We were thinking individual models, rather than a strip, as it'll be easier on the molds and allow for more variety (you'll be able to arrange them in so many more ways).

As to price, say $10USD for now (hoping that's the high end).

How does this strike you guys for a Kick Starter?

We order up 10 models for 10 different unit types, one for each unit. You'll be able to see them on the KS page so you'll have an idea of the size/quality/aestetic.

We set the initial goal at 1.5K, if met we'll do a full unit's worth of poses for one unit type that we showcased. Every 1.5K after that is a stretch goal where we'll do another full unit's worth of poses for another unit type that was showcased.

Pledge levels will be for x number of units. $40 for 4, $75 for 8, etc.

If the KS ends at 4.5k (the initial and two stretch goals) we'll do three unit types. And if you ordered 8 units, you can choose between those three types in any combination to make up your 8 units.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Toon on May 13, 2013, 10:26:28 PM
I think this is a very nice idea Dave. If the models look as good as most of the GW warmaster range, I would gladly add yet another army to my collection.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: pw on May 13, 2013, 10:52:11 PM
I'd like to see them. For me it's essential that they look 'right' which may or may not be a problem. Certainly though, if they did look like they'd fit with the toys I have I'd likely get into the KS pledge.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: jchaos79 on May 13, 2013, 10:53:35 PM
sounds great, have my support
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Stormwind on May 13, 2013, 11:44:52 PM
Wasn't there some talk a while back about someone making war mammoths for a Chaos Norse type army?  I'm racking my brains trying to remember if I read that here or somewhere else.

Would this theoretically be based on the Fan Army list? 
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: fracas on May 14, 2013, 01:10:35 AM
I like the strips GW makes so I am not too keen if it is individual models.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Edmund2011 on May 14, 2013, 10:04:43 AM
Dave, sounds good to me.  :)

Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: kyussinchains on May 14, 2013, 10:28:48 AM
I would suggest trying to design the strips in as 'snippable' a way as possible, so they can be used 'as-is', or snipped and spread out/crammed in to suit multiple tastes.....

Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Stormwind on May 14, 2013, 01:50:36 PM
http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cygor

Would there be an interest in making a nice big monster like this? =D
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: BlackEd on May 14, 2013, 02:09:26 PM
How many people are in Europe?  How many in USA?  And how many in Australia?

I'm wondering what kind of interest we have in each continent.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: David Wasilewski on May 14, 2013, 08:26:44 PM
Me, PW and Stormwind are based in the UK. At least one of my mates (UK) would be likely to back this too (non forum dweller).

Dave
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: kyussinchains on May 14, 2013, 08:57:45 PM
I too am in the UK, as are all my opponents (strange how that works huh?) who I am trying to convert to the joys of warmaster....
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: BlackEd on May 15, 2013, 02:03:05 PM
I'm assuming that the Goaties will be made for the Fan list.

I think a KickStarter would be very cool.  I am concerned that the cost of production get calculated correctly so that those running the KickStarter don't wind up deep in debt.

How would you guys feel about resin miniatures as opposed to metal?  Would you prefer one to the other?
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: kyussinchains on May 15, 2013, 02:56:04 PM
would certainly prefer metal myself, tbh I probably wouldn't buy them if they were resin, too fragile and brittle for small-scale gaming IMO
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: berzerkmonkey on May 15, 2013, 05:34:24 PM
Metal would be quicker to cast, less labor intensive, and there is no waste (i.e. miscasts are melted down again.) The downside is that there can be higher costs, but I think those are mitigated in the long run because of the points I previously mentioned.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: eastern barbarian on May 15, 2013, 05:36:06 PM
I would back this project up myself, was looking into doing beastmen army. UK based.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: andys on May 15, 2013, 06:35:58 PM
This all makes me wonder what, if any, plans the likes of Eureka and Copplestone might have to expand their ranges.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Edmund2011 on May 15, 2013, 06:39:46 PM
I prefer metal, but I would probably buy them in resin if price is good enough.

I'm based in Spain.

I'm assuming that the Goaties will be made for the Fan list.

How would you guys feel about resin miniatures as opposed to metal?  Would you prefer one to the other?

Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: BlackEd on May 15, 2013, 09:11:54 PM
I can tell you from experience that metal is very expensive.  For 10mm figures it might not be too bad. 

The cost of Pewter looks to be something like $1.50 USD per ounce.  The problem appears to be Tin trading at around $10 USD per 16 ounces.

 
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: David Wasilewski on May 15, 2013, 10:26:15 PM
Metal all the way. (wouldn't buy resin at this scale)
Would prefer strips to individuals so they look compatible with the curent WM GW range.

Dave
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Guthwine on May 16, 2013, 10:38:27 PM
Agreed. I have a few Forgeworld minis for Epic and I never want to work with resin on a small scale again.

I have no strong opinions on singles or strips though.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Stormwind on May 17, 2013, 12:21:59 PM
I have FW warhound titans and a thunderhawk and they are fine!  But at an infantry scale, resin might begin to get fiddly.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: kyussinchains on May 17, 2013, 01:42:38 PM
it's so fragile at 6mm scale, one of my regular epic opponent has FW tau and his crisis suits (approx the size of WM infantry) have all been broken and repaired multiple times from nothing more than a bumpy car journey to the venue.... IMO resin is completely unsuitable for anything smaller than 28mm scale....
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Guthwine on May 22, 2013, 11:49:50 AM
I have FW warhound titans and a thunderhawk and they are fine!  But at an infantry scale, resin might begin to get fiddly.

Never had a problem with my baneblades/shadowswords either but the basilisks are minis straight from hell. Barrels bent and the platform for the crew was warped almost to the point of no repair.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Jurisch on May 22, 2013, 08:27:05 PM
Hi,

would only buy metal.

I have some good experience working together with a producer of tin miniatures for my own minis. Making the minis requires a good technology to have perfect results. That means you need two perfect moulds which cost round about 200 EUR each for each unit and then the cost of production is at around 4 EUR per unit in highest quality. You need to sell round about 50-100 Units to get your cost including sculptor been paid. Most expensive cost occured by the sculptor. But you are a great sculptor who can manage most of it by yourself.

Cheers,

Jürgen
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: vincent on May 22, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
I'll relay this topic on the French forum.
I would most probably support such type of KS project up to $100 if they are about an army we can't find somewhere else. This does obviously depend on price and sculpt though ;)
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Stuart Bleything on June 14, 2013, 07:54:50 PM
Hi there ,
I certainly like the concept .I would buy wood elves for both BOFA and WM, and there really isn't a good range out there .( that I like )
I would also be interested in other units for both BOFA and WM , lesser goblins for instance . Humans for some of the BOFA range . Rohan , gondor etc ..............

I would certainly be open to suggestions , especially single figures and multi poses .

Stuart
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Stormwind on June 14, 2013, 10:41:09 PM
Yes, some quality wood elves would be lovely, could be allies for High Elves or Bretonnians.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Dobbsy on June 19, 2013, 02:54:19 AM
I'd chip in if I liked the sculpts and were metal. Individual or strip doesn't bother me really.
I'm in Australia.
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Stuart Bleything on June 21, 2013, 10:07:24 PM
You could have a system similar to Kallistra and there ACW range ! Or medieval ranges  as an example .

Stuart
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Stuart Bleything on December 24, 2013, 07:25:06 AM
Hi there , just started buying my Rohan army from the excellent Copplestone 10mm range with a smattering of orc's .

Mark hinted that he would think seriously about doing 10mm Wood Elves and Dwarves , which could be great news indeed !.

May be with enough interest generatedthese lines may come into production .

Stuart
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Bel on December 24, 2013, 09:55:28 AM
Well, if he would scale his 15mm dwarves...
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Stormwind on December 24, 2013, 11:00:12 AM
Oh wow, really? That would be amazing, I'm planning a Wood Elf Army now!
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: athensfantasy on December 24, 2013, 03:23:17 PM
would be awesome!

Ideally he would start with the unit types that Eureka does not cover
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Stormwind on December 24, 2013, 04:06:39 PM
I just sent him a message using the "contact us" form, saying how good his stuff is - and how I'm going to get some Rangers to use as Glade Guard in the New Year.

And also encouraging him to make new things. =D
Title: Re: looking in to making a 10mm fantasy line
Post by: Stuart Bleything on January 04, 2014, 05:58:31 PM
Just got my first order back from Copplestone . Will be ordering again in a few weeks . Looking to expand wargs and riders . Figures are excellent .

Stuart