Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: afterimagedan on May 15, 2013, 03:38:50 AM
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Anyone up for working on Inquisition? I suppose we can form a committee for that as well. I would love to grab some people and get it done, the little that it needs.
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I think the main thing here is just cleaning up the document. Has anyone had any problems with this list?
Blackship is pretty solid, the special rules on victory points and renown are my only complaints as some people don't use those.
Inq cruiser is also pretty solid.
GK are ok, they could use a page for their Battle barge as the blurb in there is a bit easy to overlook ::).
The rules for taking grey knights ships are both simple and yet vague, for that matter the entire fleet list is kind of a nightmare to read, even after reading through it a few times. If anything this would be the area I would think should be addressed.
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Then lets have a look at it. 8)
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I have a list of issues. I can bring it up tomorrow. Do we want to do the Inquisition document through the forum or committee it first then bring it in like the Tyranid list?
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Doesn't matter to me. :)
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If I can help with anything you got me ;)
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Ok, who is willing to commit some time over the next month to working on the Inquisition rules? 3 dedicated people worked the Tyranid list into shape in just over a month (if my memory serves me right). It can be more than 3 people, but I am committed to getting it done and playtesting for the next month+ to finish it.
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Prior to moving on to managing them, I was a reasonable editor for a number of years, so I'd be happy to do a proof and copyedit run through any of the BFG:R material if you wanted.
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Here we go, after tons of time working on this.......
[BEGIN COPY AND PASTE MODE]
Recommended Revisions:
Inquisitors (this is really no different than it is now, just better organized)
Ld 9 Inquisitor
Ld10 Inquisitor Lord
-Inquisitor Lords belong to an Ordo. Chose one of the three Ordos that theor Lo Inquisitrd belongs to an apply the special rules that Ordo provides.
Blackship
-Blackship with an Inquisitor Lord is discouraged from upgrading because it cannot board. Instead, the Ordo Inquisitor should get a free reroll to mitigate the fact that it cannot use the boarding and H&R bonuses it is paying for. This would also represent the ability to utilize the psychic power of the Blackship.
-Blackship should not award renown for surviving because that only gives you the reward in campaigns. This should reward VPs if it survives. If it dies, the killer gets an extra 200vps (like it usually gives). If the Blackship survives uncrippled and not disengaged, it give the Inquisitor player 200vps.
Grey Knight Battle Barge needs its own page (I have already created it)
Inquisitorial Cruiser (now 270 pts with the following rules)
-1 Inquisitorial Cruiser allowed per 2 Grey Knight Strike Cruisers. (if a Rogue Trader can have multiple RT cruisers, surely an Inquisitor can get more than 1 Inquisitorial Cruiser considering an Inquisitor's authority...)
Ordos
All of the ordos have problems. First off, the Ordo Xenos offering Xenos fleets D6x50 pts of escorts is hilariously bad. That has to go. There should not be a roll like that that can tip the game so much before the game even starts. Also, since we don't use Holofields from the original Eldar, the Ordo Xenos bonus has to change. The Ordo Malleus isn't so bad. It may need some rebalancing because of point changes to Marks and Daemonships. Ordo Hereticus gets screwed.
Proposed Ordo Changes (making your admiral an Inquisitor Lord from one of the following Ordos will give you some options):
Ordo Hereticus
-Canoness Superior (secondary commander exactly like they are in the IN list). This is a Sisters of Battle Order head.
-May take any Imperial, Adeptus Mechanicus, or Space Marines ships based off of the restrictions on those fleets with no penalty. This is due to the Ordo Hereticus being called upon to monitor other Imperial organizations. This way, we don't need weird rules for taking Inquisitors in other fleets. It would be considered that Inquisitors used with Imperial or Space Marine fleets, etc., would be Ordo Hereticus, which I think is entirely fluffy Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Lords are too busy leading the Grey Knights and the Deathwatch.
Ordo Malleus
-Brother-Captain (secondary commander exactly like they are in the IN list). This is a high ranking Grey Knight.
-Able to take Grey Knight Purifiers (functinon as Honor Guard) and Grey Knight Paladins (function as Terminators). These are the two orders of Grey Knights and I think that would be fluffy and fitting. :)
-Ordo Malleus ships are immune to the effects of Marks of Chaos. When fighting Chaos, the Chaos player may take 1 Mark of Chaos for free on any vessel of his choosing, within the rules restrictions per Ordo Malleus upgrade taken.
Ordo Xenos
-Watch Captain (secondary commander exactly like they are in the IN list)
-May take Deathwatch Kill-team (counts as Terminators). I think this is fitting and fluffy. Deathwatch = the best of the best.
-Any Hit and Runs caused by Space Marines in a fleet led by an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Lord may roll twice and choose their result. Xenos fleets fighting a fleet let by an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Lord may take another reroll on their admiral for free.
*all Ordos still have +2 to boarding, +1 to H&Rs, and -1 to H&Rs against it.
Refits
All Inquisitors should be able to purchase from a simple refit list. Consider the old BFG:R Inquisition fleet.
*The last page in the 2010 Inquisition document can be simplified greatly into quick bullet points. It doesn't need to be so dang big and bloated.
*I know that it is asking a lot, but I think the Grey Knight Strike Cruiser should be called an "Inquisition Strike Cruiser" because Grey Knights are only Ordo Malleus. Inquisition Strike Cruisers can be strike cruisers belonging to the Deathwatch as well.
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Yes, that is list.
On the Blackship: 200vps win/loss addition. What is crippled and/or disengaged?
Ordos: I will shelve out my Inquisitor Rulebook.
Strike Cruiser name: good.
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Looking over myself, I feel you missed something: Inquisitorial Corvette. Most of the time, this is what shows up in books and fluff. Maybe used a ramped up Space Marine Escort- a Nova with 2 shields/turrets or more weapons. Or make it something big. A 4 HP light cruiser, 6+ save and fast. It is much less of a warship and more for extreme speed. BUT it isn't critical to the fleet.
Maybe the Adeptus Arbites Punisher Strike Cruiser can be placed in the Inquisition Fleet...
A cool unique thing for Blackships would be to have some sort of effect on any Tzeentch marked ships within a certain radius or to mitigate Tzeentch boarding actions and have stronger boarding actions against Tzeentch ships. This would be to represent their special complement of pariahs (ie Sisters of Silence).
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You could make a 2 hit "Inquisitorial Corvette". I sort of like the idea of all the escorts types being completely backwards :D.
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Yes, that is list.
On the Blackship: 200vps win/loss addition. What is crippled and/or disengaged?
Ordos: I will shelve out my Inquisitor Rulebook.
Strike Cruiser name: good.
I think there should be an in-between mode for the blackship so that the 200vps doesn't just to to one player every game. That way, there is more on a middle ground for a draw. 200 toward either side just makes a draw less likely. Not the biggest fan of that.
I think the strike cruiser should just be called a neutral inquisition title because then, it could be a Grey knight strike cruiser, an adeptus sororitas, adeptus arbites, or deathwatch. That leaves it neutral. Plus, in think it would be best to just make it like the regular strike cruiser and without the Greg knight boarding stuff.
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Looking over myself, I feel you missed something: Inquisitorial Corvette. Most of the time, this is what shows up in books and fluff. Maybe used a ramped up Space Marine Escort- a Nova with 2 shields/turrets or more weapons. Or make it something big. A 4 HP light cruiser, 6+ save and fast. It is much less of a warship and more for extreme speed. BUT it isn't critical to the fleet.
Maybe the Adeptus Arbites Punisher Strike Cruiser can be placed in the Inquisition Fleet...
A cool unique thing for Blackships would be to have some sort of effect on any Tzeentch marked ships within a certain radius or to mitigate Tzeentch boarding actions and have stronger boarding actions against Tzeentch ships. This would be to represent their special complement of pariahs (ie Sisters of Silence).
In would be open to seeing a Corvette. That's Andrew's specialty. :-)
I think the Punisher strike cruiser can just be represented by the normal strike cruiser. We should write up a blurb for the inquisition strike cruiser to include this stuff.
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An Inquisitor can about seize every vessel he wants. Many Inquisitors prefer small transport vessels instead of big warfare, or they just tell a Rogue Trader to 'lend' their ship, etc. I think we should incorporate that in a way. A speciality. Adding an Inq to other fleets while commanding a Cargo Vessel. Heh.
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Is everyone OK with my proposal in general? If so, I can start working on the document and we can add and tweak from there. I play tested the fleet yesterday BTW. It was pretty cool.
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I like your suggestions, AfterImageDan, and your solution for representing "Deathwatch" with a terminator-equivalent teleport attack. They're skilled and armed to the teeth, but in the lore they're supposed to be deployed in small teams, so a stat improvement to a ship would probably be excessive. Most of the ship's crew would be Inquisition/Adeptus Astartes thralls anyhow.
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Most of any Astartes ships are thralls. Yet, space marines can still pay points to teleport attack with terminators.
Anyways, I think it would be better, either way, to make Deathwatch Kill teams into the honor guard upgrade and instead have Deathwatch First Company Veterans as their terminators. Make the upgrades available just like the SM Crusade fleet has them.
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Here we go, after tons of time working on this.......
[BEGIN COPY AND PASTE MODE]
Recommended Revisions:
Inquisitors (this is really no different than it is now, just better organized)
Ld 9 Inquisitor
Ld10 Inquisitor Lord
-Inquisitor Lords belong to an Ordo. Chose one of the three Ordos that theor Lo Inquisitrd belongs to an apply the special rules that Ordo provides.
Ok, but I don't really see the need for two types. The single option makes it much more streamlined. Would this mean that an Inquisitor wouldn't be able to take an Ordo?
Blackship
-Blackship with an Inquisitor Lord is discouraged from upgrading because it cannot board. Instead, the Ordo Inquisitor should get a free reroll to mitigate the fact that it cannot use the boarding and H&R bonuses it is paying for. This would also represent the ability to utilize the psychic power of the Blackship.
-Blackship should not award renown for surviving because that only gives you the reward in campaigns. This should reward VPs if it survives. If it dies, the killer gets an extra 200vps (like it usually gives). If the Blackship survives uncrippled and not disengaged, it give the Inquisitor player 200vps.
Being it is a special vessel and will likely be the focus of scenarios then yes I would agree that the victory points is a good move. I don't know about the boarding deal tho.
Grey Knight Battle Barge needs its own page (I have already created it)
Word
Inquisitorial Cruiser (now 270 pts with the following rules)
-1 Inquisitorial Cruiser allowed per 2 Grey Knight Strike Cruisers. (if a Rogue Trader can have multiple RT cruisers, surely an Inquisitor can get more than 1 Inquisitorial Cruiser considering an Inquisitor's authority...)
Why? The Inquisition isn't a list in itself its an add on to an IN or SM list, having them be able to take more cruisers seems... odd.
Ordos
All of the ordos have problems. First off, the Ordo Xenos offering Xenos fleets D6x50 pts of escorts is hilariously bad. That has to go. There should not be a roll like that that can tip the game so much before the game even starts. Also, since we don't use Holofields from the original Eldar, the Ordo Xenos bonus has to change. The Ordo Malleus isn't so bad. It may need some rebalancing because of point changes to Marks and Daemonships. Ordo Hereticus gets screwed.
Proposed Ordo Changes (making your admiral an Inquisitor Lord from one of the following Ordos will give you some options):
Ordo Hereticus
-Canoness Superior (secondary commander exactly like they are in the IN list). This is a Sisters of Battle Order head.
-May take any Imperial, Adeptus Mechanicus, or Space Marines ships based off of the restrictions on those fleets with no penalty. This is due to the Ordo Hereticus being called upon to monitor other Imperial organizations. This way, we don't need weird rules for taking Inquisitors in other fleets. It would be considered that Inquisitors used with Imperial or Space Marine fleets, etc., would be Ordo Hereticus, which I think is entirely fluffy Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Lords are too busy leading the Grey Knights and the Deathwatch.
Ordo Malleus
-Brother-Captain (secondary commander exactly like they are in the IN list). This is a high ranking Grey Knight.
-Able to take Grey Knight Purifiers (functinon as Honor Guard) and Grey Knight Paladins (function as Terminators). These are the two orders of Grey Knights and I think that would be fluffy and fitting. :)
-Ordo Malleus ships are immune to the effects of Marks of Chaos. When fighting Chaos, the Chaos player may take 1 Mark of Chaos for free on any vessel of his choosing, within the rules restrictions per Ordo Malleus upgrade taken.
Ordo Xenos
-Watch Captain (secondary commander exactly like they are in the IN list)
-May take Deathwatch Kill-team (counts as Terminators). I think this is fitting and fluffy. Deathwatch = the best of the best.
-Any Hit and Runs caused by Space Marines in a fleet led by an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Lord may roll twice and choose their result. Xenos fleets fighting a fleet let by an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Lord may take another reroll on their admiral for free.
*all Ordos still have +2 to boarding, +1 to H&Rs, and -1 to H&Rs against it.
Refits
All Inquisitors should be able to purchase from a simple refit list. Consider the old BFG:R Inquisition fleet.
*The last page in the 2010 Inquisition document can be simplified greatly into quick bullet points. It doesn't need to be so dang big and bloated.
*I know that it is asking a lot, but I think the Grey Knight Strike Cruiser should be called an "Inquisition Strike Cruiser" because Grey Knights are only Ordo Malleus. Inquisition Strike Cruisers can be strike cruisers belonging to the Deathwatch as well.
I don't know about the changes to the Ordos either, once again the Inq is not a fleet list, its just an add on.
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But that's the thing, it shouldn't be. The Grey Knights and the Deathwatch both have their own fleets and those are the primary military arms of two of the Ordos. It seems weird to force the Grey Knights to take vessels from other fleets. Anyways, people will still be able to make a "Deathwatch" and "Grey Knight" fleets by taking strike cruisers, etc.
One of my main concerns is no one seems to be taking Inquisitors. Why? Well, why take an inquisitor when you can take a Master or the Fleet? The Ordo Xenos is way to risky because it adds points to the enemy fleet, potentially a ton of them. In could go on. There should be some incentive to talk an Inquisition fleet instead of a space Marine fleet, which should primarily be through Ordos and Inquisitorial Cruisers. There isn't really any other reason besides those and wanting to take a super varied fleet from various imperial sources. I don't see people doing that, however...
Andrew, you are right about the Inquisitor at ld9. Its basically a simplified way to do it and give it more fluffy names for ld9 vs ld10. No different that 2010 besides that.
Adding in secondary commanders (fluffy), allowing for more than 1 Inquisitorial cruiser (realistic), allowing for basic space marine upgrades for the inquisition space marine ships, and fixing the messed up Ordos is really all it needs.
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Oh yeah, my point about the Black ship is that you will basically not be using a LD 10 inquisitor in a fleet with a blackship because you pay points and get all sorts of boarding stuff that you can't use if you take an Ordo upgrade. That's silly.
For the cruiser, took have to buy Ordo for it and if you want a Ld 10 inquisitor on it, you have to buy another Ordo. Waste of points. So, you can't use an Inquisitor in an imperial fleet that isn't Ld9 without wasting points.
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Edit: Ok, bigger wall of text than I thought I was writing. I apologize in advance!
I'm with AndrewChristlieb in terms of his general sentiment that the Inquisition should be a series of reserves options and scenario ships, rather than a full fleet list. Totally going to catch some flak for this next bit, mostly because it's an interpretation of lore (and therefore inherently subjective).
I'm not even completely comfortable with Space Marines having a whole fleet list. Yeah, I said it. In the lore, you rarely see more than a single strike cruiser or a battle barge with a company, rarely more onboard, responding to strife on a planet. I can see escorts having a role alongside a battle barge (who's going to send something that big in without any?), and can even more easily see small task forces of marines (maybe a handful of squads) deploying to a warzone on a Gladius because that's about what they need for transport. THAT SAID, I'm happy we have the fleet lists (standard and dominion) because (A) they've helped identify weaknesses, (B) allowed us to grow and develop the concept of a "strike cruiser" into a class of vessels instead of a cookie-cutter ship, and (C) allow us to represent truly monumental undertakings or even roving crusade detachments (I can easily see a Black Templar Crusade deployed across a pair of strike cruisers and attendant escorts; that's a good example of where the lore would support a Space Marine fleet list, tbh).
How does this matter for the Inquisition "list"? Well, everything that applies to Space Marines, goes double for the truly specialist forces. I figure the Grey Knights probably have the luxury of sending their people around on strike cruisers and battle barges exclusively, and probably have a big enough fleet between the shipyards of Mars and Jupiter relative to the number of Knights in the field at any one time that they can afford to dispatch a handful of squads on a ship that could comfortably billet one hundred marines. That said, you'd have to bend yourself over backward to try to create special Grey Knights escorts, and ultimately they'd just end up being overly expensive versions of Gladii, Novae, and Hunters, so that's not really worth the effort anyhow (and I'm assuming you wouldn't bother anyway). As for the Deathwatch, the lore, at least as it's laid out in the RPG books, supports single-squad deployments on Gladii and Hunters to various warzones, in rare cases you might see enough Deathwatch brought together for a mission to warrant a strike cruiser. I'm actually planning on painting up a Deathwatch strike cruiser and in my own internal debate decided not to bother with any special rules for them as the number of marines deployed on the ship would be so few relative to a full marine company on a strike cruiser that I figured it would simply average out to a "standard" marine strike cruiser in terms of bonuses and benefits anyway.
What I'd really like to see would be a "list" of reserves options with perhaps special rules (like "you can take a Black Ship to replace a battleship in any imperial navy list") for the Inquisition. I don't really see too many Inquisitors having the patience or the training to orchestrate a void war, and they'd probably leave that to the commander of whatever battlegroup they hijacked, while worrying about their more focused goal (whether it be a "board the enemy ship" subplot, Exterminatus, or commanding a planetary assault). On the other hand, I'd like to see a Sororitas Monastery Ship perhaps, although an astartes strike cruiser would probably cover that pretty well.
Also, as an aside, in Faith and Fire by James Swallow, the Inquisitorial Black Ship had a detachment of Sororitas onboard for maintaining order among the inmates. That puts near-astartes defensive crew onboard, though I'd still see them not performing boarding actions as their purpose was solely to defend the ship and its cargo.
I'd also like to see Adeptus Arbites vessels too. I really enjoyed the Shira Calpurnia series by Matthew Farrer (Enforcer is the omnibus) and I'd really recommend them as reading to anyone who wants to see what Hydraphur is like or how the Arbites interact with various Imperial institutions; he did a great job. In that book, Farrer gives us Arbites-crewed intra-system corvettes and customs vessels (easily represented by defense monitors, I realize, but perhaps there's room to add more life and color to BFG?), and somewhere I've definitely come across a "Mobile Arbites Precinct" cruiser in the lore, which IMO would make a great addition to a scenario.
Ultimately, I feel like the Inquisition and other Imperial forces are better suited to scenarios and sub-plots than to a tournament list. I feel like we have the opportunity here to, instead of adding one more tournament list to the game, really add some depth to some of the battle scenarios or add new sub-plot tables and the like. With a "Pax Imperium" mini-supplement, we could add some interesting narrative gaming options that, while they wouldn't be standard fleet stuff, would still hopefully be attractive to gamers.
In case you're wondering, I'm putting my money where my mouth is and volunteering to be a part of this if people like what I'm suggesting here ;)
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I agree with Armiger84.
This is going to take a moment to get to a point about the inquisition, so bare with me.
There are 4 fleet powers in the imperium- The IN, Admech, Space Marines and Rouge Traders
The IN of course are the largest and most influencial naval force in the Imperium.
The AdMech fleets are typically not scene, but explorator fleets and forgeworld fleets do exist. However, these are still better to take as reserves in IN/RT fleets, as they typically would rather have others do the fighting or they have been petitioned to help, say on a crusade for instance.
The Space Marines are the most fiercely independent force in the Imperium. Sometimes they do fight alongside the IN, and Segmentum Solar fleet list represents that perfectly. And yes, most of the time they do operate 1-2 ships in an area at a time. BUT they still do fight fleet level engagements, and they seemingly prefer (or more often than not, are forced to) do that on their own. Obviously crusade and dominion forces have reasons for this, as either they are all travelling together, or defending the same area of space together. But there is plenty of precedence in the fluff for SM fleet level engagement. The enitrety of the Badab war, the Gildar Rift, the defence of Ultramar against the hivefleets. It is part of their independent nature to not rely on the IN to do certain things. And to be honest, most IN engagements in the fluff (read Execution hour) are small engagements anyways, not the fleet wide engagements that tournaments are.
Last fleet power are Rouge Traders. By their very nature, they have to be. Often RT families are 1 ship and a group of escorts, which is why they work best as reserves. BUT some of the largest most influencial families have somthing akin to a dominion or a crusade fleet for SM. Multiple ships for business, and/or to hire out as mercenaries for one of the many petty intra-system conflicts that plague the imperium. As well, they may very well be the core of an explorator fleet, striking out on a risky yet lucrative business venture and enlisting the support of the AdMech for financial backing and technical expertise.
The inquisition was not part of that list. They are too few in numbers and spread to thin. Sure, maybe once every blue moon the DW or GK fight as a fleet, but even then it is probably nothing bigger than a cruiser clash. They wouldn't risk their elite force like that when there are more expendable resources in the Galaxy, IE the IN, RT, and to a lesser extent SM. They rarely influence the AdMech, so thats why I did not include them there.
Even when it is a full on daemonic incursion, they still don't commit excessive forces. The first war for armaggeddon only saw 109 Grey Knights deploy. Angron had invaded, and had no less than 12 bloodthirsters. This is one of the largest incursions ever seen by the imperium, and all that was committed was 109 knights. And if you read The Emperor's Gift, you'd see that the Inquistion then just destroyed (or attempted to) all the other loyalist forces that fought there (other than the SW) to keep a lid on it. Another example is something like the Mordant 13th, or the lucky 13's as they are known. They were used extensively to combat chaos and then annihilated by other imperial forces when the job was done. They'd rather have other organizations fight for them and then dispose of them too afterwads than overly commit their own force. And really, why maintain your own main fighting force when you have the authority to just take some one elses (the IN). Heaven forbid they committed half the DW and/or GK fleet and they lost. That would be one of the worst catastrophies for the Imperium. Instead, just muster the IN, who havem more ships and can afford to loose them, and supplement with your forces.
Think of the Inquisition like SpecWar in the modern military. They are applied in small numbers where it is most critical. BUT they do join other fleets and crusade forces, or petition to have their own, so having them in a force and the Ordo affecting force composition makes complete sense.
The INQ should be fleet upgrades and/or a scenario driven force. Maybe if you wanted to represent a rare event like blackships redevousing before returning to Jupiter, you could compile a large solely INQ force, but that would be entirely scenario driven and not really a normal engagement, like what occurs at tournaments. More something you do purely for fun.
As for what Armiger said about arbites, what I think also should be developed is an extensive planetary defense PDF, and arbites being a portion of that. This is somewhat acceptable as a full fleet list to me, with access to IN reserves. BUT is also should be a list relied upon to be taken as reserves and supplement a IN list or scenario as applicable. Why this should be a full fleet list over INQ, is alot of the time planets are invaded/attacked with little notice and little more than their own forces present and the Imperium responds to the threat, rather than preventing it. You may have some IN patrol forces present, IE a cruiser and its escorts, which would be reserves.
This is a cool opportunity for a fleet of heavily armed yet ponderously slow system monitors and also a perfect place to work in Arbites vessels, like the punisher strike cruiser.
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As well, I just thought of one other thing. Why are there no SoB ships? Wouldn't they have some ships of their own? Like Daemonifuge style.
I imagine if the SM have forces, the Soriatas maintain their own. And they fight wars of faith, which would be a Ecclesiarch led force of IN and Soriatas ships
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So sentiment is:
Inquisition is a add-on article.
You can take Inquisitors with special rules with or without their special ships and add them to an existing Imperial, AdMech, Rogue Trader or Marine fleet.
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First book in the Grey Knights series starts with a battle where 300 Grey Knights are committed.
Anyways, I concede. How about we do this...
You can take an Inquisitor in place of your admiral for IN, Admech, or SM fleet. If so, it allows you to take Inquisition ships such as Blackships, Inquisitorial Cruisers, and Inquisition Strike cruisers. You can also take Ordo upgrades for your Inquisitor Lord, which will allow for a limited Terminator and Honor Guard type upgrades plus their Ordo bonuses. Done.
What about that? That allows you to take just an Inquisitor or a limited amount more if you like.
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First book in the Grey Knights series starts with a battle where 300 Grey Knights are committed.
Anyways, I concede. How about we do this...
You can take an Inquisitor in place of your admiral for IN, Admech, or SM fleet. If so, it allows you to take Inquisition ships such as Blackships, Inquisitorial Cruisers, and Inquisition Strike cruisers. You can also take Ordo upgrades for your Inquisitor Lord, which will allow for a limited Terminator and Honor Guard type upgrades plus their Ordo bonuses. Done.
What about that? That allows you to take just an Inquisitor or a limited amount more if you like.
I would say in addition to (ie an Admiral and Inquisitor if you wanted), but sounds good to me.
Would the Inquisitor have to be on an Inq ship. I would think not. Say if the fleet has an IN BB and an INQ cruiser, he may want to be on the BB instead.
I remember the start of the GK series now. If I am correct thought, that was an entire Daemon World they banished, no fleet engagement, and all GK were lost to a man...
I still like the ordos idea.
As for GK ships, I still like the idea of them having a BB and Strike cruisers. Though I think as a whole the INQ list should be an add on, I don't 100% like tying peoples hands, especially if someone actually bought multiple FW GK SC. Maybe have a line in there mentioning that the GK can be taken as a fleet. When doing so, use the Standard SM fleet list, but use the GK BB and Strike cruiser in the place of standard SM vessels for GK. Escorts are as normal. Such a fleet MUST take a master of the fleet. I would say no reserves outside of the INQ fleet be allowed, nor any Venerable BB. When the GK gather like this, it is "too perilous" for the other forces of the Imperium, or something like that.
This way you get to have your cake, and eat it too. And it makes more sense for the fleet to be Chamber militant oriented when deployed in force than Inq oriented.
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How about in place of or in addition to the regular admiral? That way, the IN admiral can be put onto another ship or could have taken a back seat to the inquisitor.
I think that's a good idea for Greg Knights. One of the perks of the Ordo Malleus could be that when taking a SM fleet with an Ordo Malleus Lord, you can take Grey knight stuff instead of regular SM stuff, not that theres much difference but still.
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Any Imperial or Space Marine fleet 750 points or
greater may be led by include an Inquisitor Lord, who must be
placed on an Inquisition Blackship if one is present, or
on the most expensive ship in the fleet if one is not.
They must be aboard an Inquisitorial Cruiser if it is
included in the fleet, even if it is not the most
expensive ship or a Blackship is also present.
Any Imperial or Space Marine fleet with an Inquisitor Lord may include a
single Inquisitorial Cruiser in the fleet, which takes
the place of a battlecruiser or strike cruiser in the
fleet. If an Inquisitor Lord is leading the fleet, Up to
one Grey Knights Strike Cruiser may be taken for
every 500 points in the fleet. A Space Marine fleet led
by an Inquisitor Lord may rely heavily or even
exclusively on Include up to 10 Grey Knights Strike Cruisers if desired, which each take the place of a strike cruiser in the fleet.
in which case A Space Marine fleet relying heavily or even exclusively on Grey Knights Strike Cruisers may include a single Grey Knights battlebarge, which counts as a Venerable battle barge. may
be taken. The fleet may also include a single
Blackship, which as a special vessel does not count
toward or against other ship limits in the fleet.
So something like that?
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I like it all but the inquisitorial strike cruiser limit. That's all I would change and also that an Inquisitor can replace the fleets admiral too.
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What limit don't you like? The 1/500 in an IN list or the up to 10 in a SM list?
Any Imperial or Space Marine fleet 750 points or
greater may include or be led by an Inquisitor Lord, who must be
placed on an Inquisition Blackship if one is present, or
on the most expensive ship in the fleet if one is not.
They must be aboard an Inquisitorial Cruiser if it is
included in the fleet, even if it is not the most
expensive ship or a Blackship is also present.
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I mean the inquisitorial cruiser. Oops!
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Oh. Well :P.
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I understand limiting it, but restricted to 1 ever is overkill. I think here should just be heavier restrictions like it counts as a grand cruiser so needs 3 cruisers to take 1.
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3:1 works for me; that basically makes it a fleet reserve anyhow, so it would be hard to argue against that being balanced.
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0-1 Black ship, Inq Cruiser allowed per 3 cruisers, GKSC just like Andrew said.
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Ok, but why allow more then one Inq cruiser? These are supposed to be exceptionally rare, so rare that the Inquisitors usually don't use them.
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Ok, but why allow more then one Inq cruiser? These are supposed to be exceptionally rare, so rare that the Inquisitors usually don't use them.
I agree. You are probably more likely to see multiple Blackships than Inquisitorial cruisers
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Show us some sources.
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http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/League_of_Blackships#.UZhc4T7juSo (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/League_of_Blackships#.UZhc4T7juSo)
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisitorial_Black_Ship#.UZhdHD7juSo (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisitorial_Black_Ship#.UZhdHD7juSo)
So the psyker collection vessels travel in fleets.
The INQ ships are more like strike cruisers. Strike cruisers more than often deploy in solo roles.
As well, the INQ cruisers don't have to constantly visit every planet in the Imperium.
BUT I think for game balance, it should be the way it is now TBH. Sometimes fluff has to be tempered. And really the two (Psyker BS vs Inq BS) are completely separate anyways.
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That's a lot of BS but somebody had to say it :P.
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http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/League_of_Blackships#.UZhc4T7juSo (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/League_of_Blackships#.UZhc4T7juSo)
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisitorial_Black_Ship#.UZhdHD7juSo (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisitorial_Black_Ship#.UZhdHD7juSo)
So the psyker collection vessels travel in fleets.
The INQ ships are more like strike cruisers. Strike cruisers more than often deploy in solo roles.
As well, the INQ cruisers don't have to constantly visit every planet in the Imperium.
BUT I think for game balance, it should be the way it is now TBH. Sometimes fluff has to be tempered. And really the two (Psyker BS vs Inq BS) are completely separate anyways.
If we go by your arguments then we should limit strike cruisers. Inquisitorial cruisers have lots of traveling to do and traveling amount doesn't have anything to do with them appearing together or being rare.
Your "way it is now," do you mean you want to keep it at 0-1 or 1/3 cruisers?
Honestly, they are hard to use individually. Paired they are great. You can't really pair it well with a strike cruiser because of the 45deg turn. Pairing it with say a tyrant might work but your bombardment cannons don't stack with stuff. Paired makes them appealing and not otherwise especially compared to just getting strike cruisers. Honestly, I know some people dont want this to be a tournament fleet, but we are trying for game balance here so that all fleets have equal potential power. There is no reason to take Inquisition over space marines without some good incentives. Allowing for more than one inq cruiser is one that compels me.
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How do you mean
bombardment cannons don't stack with stuff
?
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On the gunnery chart, bombardment cannons do not add with weapon batteries but will combine with bombardment cannons only.
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Different coloured dice, lol.
Yes, I agree with the text Andrew gave. Some notes: Inquisitor (as Dan also said) may be taken in addition to or instead of the regular fleet admiral. Plus I would say: Inquisitor may be placed on any ship he prefers (they are cunning individuals, seeing at times it is better to be on a small vessel then the juicy ponderous big ship).
As for ship restrictions, I'll think about it.
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Question, are all the INQ ships Exterminatus capable. I think this should come standard and not have to replace prow weapons. Virus bombs of some sort.
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Any other thoughts on this before I start editing? I'm going to get the document in better shape and integrated this stuff soon.
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An Inquisitor can about seize every vessel he wants. Many Inquisitors prefer small transport vessels instead of big warfare, or they just tell a Rogue Trader to 'lend' their ship, etc. I think we should incorporate that in a way. A speciality. Adding an Inq to other fleets while commanding a Cargo Vessel. Heh.
I think you are right on here. That would solve some of the point waste problems when putting an Inquisitor Lord on a Blackship, which can't do H&Rs and begin boarding actions. Allowing the Inquisitors to be on whichever ship they want would solve this.
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Alright here's proposal #2 with your input in mind!
Recommended Revisions:
Ld 9 Inquisitor 50pts
Ld10 Inquisitor Lord 100pts
-Inquisitor Lords belong to an Ordo. Choose one of the three Ordos that the Inquisitor Lord belongs to an apply the special rules that Ordo provides.
Blackship
-Blackship should not award renown for surviving because that only gives you the reward in campaigns. This should reward VPs if it survives. If it dies, the killer gets an extra 200vps. If the Blackship survives uncrippled and not disengaged, it give the Inquisitor player 200vps.
Grey Knight Battle Barge needs its own page (I have already created it)
Inquisitorial Cruiser (now 270 pts with the following rules)
-1 Inquisitorial Cruiser pre 3 cruisers. Takes the spot of a Grand Cruiser for fleets that use Grand Cruisers.
Ordo Heretius
-+2 to boarding, +1 to H&Rs and -1 to H&Rs against them
-Canoness Superior (function as Secondary Commanders like in the IN fleet)
-Sisters of Battle give the ship +1 to Boarding. +5 pts
-Inquisitorial Storm Troopers (function as Honor Guard without the SM +1) which may be taken on any ship with an Inquisitor or Canoness Superior. +5pts.
-Any Battleship or Inquisitorial Cruiser with an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord on it is considered to be an Exterminator ship or is given the Transport quality, depending on the relevant scenario.
The promary advantage of the Hereticus is in the Sisters of Battle boarding bonus that can be taken, which will make them more powerful in boarding but not too much. Also, the bonus Exterminator or Transport upgrade is the other. This adds to the feel of Hereticus which is all about cleansing Humanity and ultimately needs to invade and often Exterminatus worlds to have this done. The Exterminator upgrade is so... Inquisition...
Ordo Malleus
-+2 to boarding, +1 to H&Rs and -1 to H&Rs against them
-Brother-Captain (function as Secondary Commanders like in the IN fleet)
-Grey Knight Purifiers (function as SM Honor Guard) on any ship with a Brother-Captain or an Inquisitor on it.
-Grey Knight Paladins (function as SM Terminators) on any ship with an Inquisitor Lord on it.
-Ordo Malleus ships are immune to the effects of Marks of Chaos and Daemonships.
-A ship led by an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord may take 0-1 Grey Knights Battle Barge and Grey Knights Strike Cruisers instead of regular Strike Cruisers.
Malleus can take Terminators. That's a difference from the Hereticus. Also, this unlocks the Grey Knights options and provides the nice little defences against Chaos.
Ordo Xenos
-+2 to boarding, +1 to H&Rs and -1 to H&Rs against them
-Watch Captain (secondary commander exactly like they are in the IN list)
-Deathwatch Kill-team (counts as Honor Guard) may be taken on any capital ship. Ships with Kill-teams always get a +1 to H&Rs caused by their vessel and vessel's ordnance, even when not attacking from an Inquisitor Lord's vessel. +15pts
-Deathwatch First Company (counts as Terminators) may be taken on any vessel with an Inquisitor Lord.
Xenos looks much like Malleus but cannot get the goodies of the Grey Knight fleet. Instead, it gets the Deathwatch Kill-teams upgrade option.
Refits - leave the refits to the Adeptus Mechanicus. Giving Inquisitors the ability to take refits isn't a good idea considering you can put an Inquisitor on an Admech battleship. I have changed my mind on this. Also, it keeps things simple to not have them
*The last page in the 2010 Inquisition document can be simplified greatly into quick bullet points. It doesn't need to be so dang big and bloated.
*No more general "Inquisition Strike Cruiser" because it makes sense that Deathwatch wouldn't make a fleet out of them.
*The Ordos have been cleaned up a bit to look a little more like a Space Marine upgrade and allow for more options to be taken relating to that Ordo. Each Ordo has some advantage over the other as referenced above.
*There will need to be a rule that says that Inquisitor Lord boarding an H&R upgrades do not stack with Space Marine special rules.
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Seems fine at this first glance.
Is there a note that says that an Inquisitor may take on of the special Inq vessels? The InqCruiser mentions that it takes the spot of Grand Cruisers.
Plus: if we get around doing special character vessels compendium I do insist on adding the Shadow of Vengeance from the Book of Nemesis.
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Is there a note that says that an Inquisitor may take on of the special Inq vessels? The InqCruiser mentions that it takes the spot of Grand Cruisers.
Not sure what you mean. If you are saying what I think you are saying, I think there should be a note about being able to take 0-1 Blackships if an Inquisitor leads your fleet and the 1:3 InqCruisers per cruiser restriction.
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Just like that. ;)
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Just like that. ;)
Nice!
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Seems fine at this first glance.
Is there a note that says that an Inquisitor may take on of the special Inq vessels? The InqCruiser mentions that it takes the spot of Grand Cruisers.
Plus: if we get around doing special character vessels compendium I do insist on adding the Shadow of Vengeance from the Book of Nemesis.
Put in on the list of ships for ASC 2.0
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Anyone against those proposed changes?
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Not at this point. :)
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Glad you're on board Horizon. 8)
If we don't hear any dissenters, we can vote on the whole package deal, I can format the document, and then we can review again.
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OK, when compared to strike cruisers and Imperial battle cruisers, the Inquisitorial cruiser is overpriced. It should be 240pts and it should have to purchase an Ordo upgrade for 25pts if it does not have an Inquisitorial lord on board. This will make it so it does not have to double pay for the Ordo upgrade anymore. Can someone also try some price calculating on it and some comparisons?
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Okay comparing to the BFG R Overlord (220 points)
Inq cruiser has same WB but is 5cm faster and 6+ armour all round (that is a big one!)
As well it has 6x30 Bombardment cannons while the overlord has 2x60cm lances. The bombardment cannons will only ever roll 2 dice min against a capital ship (15-30cm abeam). And they are better at critical damage. Sure less range but seem just a little more powerfull, and can be way more powerfull in the right situation. AND it can flexibly switch between TH and torpedoes and while it has to pay for additional upgrades, that tactical flexibility provided can mean alot.
So 240 pts seems a little underpriced to me. To get all that, especially 6+ allround, for only +20 points?
Maybe 255?
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Hey,
it cannot switch freely between T-Hawks & torpedoes.
Stacked up from a regular Strike Cruiser:
edit: +2 hits
+1 shield
-45* turns
+8wb@double range
+3bc
From that point of view 95pts is a steep curve. (145->240)
I would not undervalue the long range lances of the Overlord. It means that ship can stay abeam from farther away. Plus 6+ armour means nothing to a lance.
So I would say, given the restricted aspect of the Inq_sc and the need for upgrades 240pts is a nice value.
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Hey,
it cannot switch freely between T-Hawks & torpedoes.
Stacked up from a regular Strike Cruiser:
+1 shield
-45* turns
+8wb@double range
+3bc
From that point of view 95pts is a steep curve. (145->240)
I would not undervalue the long range lances of the Overlord. It means that ship can stay abeam from farther away. Plus 6+ armour means nothing to a lance.
So I would say, given the restricted aspect of the Inq_sc and the need for upgrades 240pts is a nice value.
Looking at the PDF on the BFGR library "may replace LBs for S-6 sp:30cm torpedo tubes at no cost"
I don't mean during acutally game play, but it just seems one of those intangible things about a ship that should be considered making it a "good" choice in a list- the fact you can take it to fill many roles. And that flexibility is worth something to me.
You forgot that from a regular strike cruiser it also has 2 more hits (8 vice 6)
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Hi,
yeah, torps may be 'flexible' like that but it is really a secondary choice given the number of ships you will be fielding.
Forgot to mention the hits indeed, but I did take them into the calculation, thanks.
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Also, compare it to the Desolator. One thing I forgot to consider is the +1Ld it gets compared to the overlord, yet the strike cruiser gets the amazing LD chart and seemingly doesn't have to pay...
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Disregard my last post. In forgot the +1ld isn't included in the inq cruiser's points but comes from the Ordo upgrade. I spent some more time comparing and it's hard to see the inq cruiser much more than 240, especially compared to the desolator at 300. The swap from 8 60cm wbs to 4 60cm lances itself would cost 50+pts. The desolator's wbs about even out with the inq cruiser's BCs and the Thunderhawks is worth 6 of the Desolator's 9 torpedoes.
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240 is pretty cheap. This thing should easily handle an Overlord, especially once its closed. I would think at least 250 for price would be appropriate.
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It also would get stomped by a desolator currently and both are 300 pts. I could go with 250. Remember, of then has to buy the Ordo upgrade.
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It also would get stomped by a desolator currently and both are 300 pts. I could go with 250. Remember, of then has to buy the Ordo upgrade.
Only if it has to take the Inquisitor. Which reading everything right now, you don't have to take them (unless I am missing something), and then you don't have to take the Ordo upgrades either. Just like admirals in other fleets...
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Read under the stats for the ship again. It has to buy an upgrade.
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Read under the stats for the ship again. It has to buy an upgrade.
You may want to rephrase that then. The way I read it doesn't come across like that is a requirement for it to buy and INQ and have ordo specific rules, just that ordo rules apply when purchased.
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I agree, I think we could clarify it. I think the Inquisition Cruiser should be 250pts and have to buy an Ordo upgrade for 25pts unless it has an Inquisitor Lord on board (effectively making it so you don't have to purchase the Ordo twice). If there are no admirals on board of any type, the ship gets +1 to its regularly generated leadership value (just like it used to when the Ordo used to give you that).
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I would like to make a small change and ask for some input on something. I think the Heretic us Storm Troopers upgrade should instead be "Celestians Superior" after the most elite Sisters of Battle. I would like to make the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers a basic upgrade that any Inquisition capital ship can take regardless of Ordo. Here's my proposal:
Storm Trooper Strike Force - May take one per Inquisitor in your fleet and they may be on any capital ship. A ship with this upgrade may roll twice and pick the highest result in boarding actions. +15pts
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Sounds good. May I suggest the following.
INQ Storm trooper: +015 pts, 1/Inquisitor, may be on any capital ship in the fleet not crewed by Space Marines.
INQ Cruiser Specific:
INQ Cruiser is 250pts and is automatically +1ld if there is no "character" onboard.
If an Inquisitor is onboard, it gains the benefits of the Inquisitor and his ordo (if one is selected). An INQ Cruiser may still select an Ordo upgrade w/out an Inquisitor onboard(maybe this should be @ an additional 5 pts since you didn't pay the 50 pt premium for inquisitor?).
If no Ordo is taken (including that taken by an Inquisitor), an INQ cruiser MUST take INQ Storm troopers. These are taken in addition to the 1/Inquisitor restriction as they are permanently stationed aboard the vessel.
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Sounds good. So basically then change would be that STSFs can not be put on space marine crewed vessels and an inquisitorial cruiser must have at least one upgrade of either STSFs or an Ordo. It may have both as well.
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Ok, so what are we going to do about the Inquisitor Lord and Blackship special rules overlap? I still think the re-roll is a good idea and relatively fluffy.
Just a reminder of what I am talking about:
1. Blackship has points integrated into it to have +2 boarding defense and -1 H&Rs against it.
2. If you put an Inquisitor Lord on it, there are wasted points because the Inquisitor lord already gets those upgrades and better.
3. In order to mitigate this and not discourage putting an Inquisitor Lord on a Blackship (or taking Blackships at all for that matter), we could give Inquisitor Lords on a Blackship a reroll, representing the Inquisitor Lord utilizing his own psychic power while coupling with the psykers in the Blackship to divine future events, etc. Also, game-wise, this 25pt re-roll will make up the wasted points spent.
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Why not just make him 25 points cheaper on a black ship? Effectively makes it a free reroll if you take a second one or offsets the cost of buying an Ordo.
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To be fair, when compared to Eldar aspect warriors, it should be 20pts. How would that look in the document?
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To be fair, when compared to Eldar aspect warriors, it should be 20pts. How would that look in the document?
The storm troopers?
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I'm saying the Inquisition lord on a blackship really is just double paying for the equivalent of aspect warriors which are 20pts.
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I think your over thinking it a bit. Its far too awkard to try and place something in like "if this ship has so and so on board it gets x" or "so and so will be cheaper if on x" etc. Drop the boarding modifier from the ship if its that big of a deal and then add in the *fleet re-roll to counter balance it. That way you get an always on benifit thats not subject to anything outside the ships profile and it stays balanced.
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So basically, add the reroll for the black ship and take its boarding bonus off? Yes, that would fix it! Good idea Andrew.
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Attempt 3:
Ld 9 Inquisitor 50pts
Ld10 Inquisitor Lord 100pts
-Inquisitor Lords belong to an Ordo. Choose one of the three Ordos that the Inquisitor Lord belongs to an apply the special rules that Ordo provides.
-You must take at least one Inquisitor or Inquisitor Lord in place of or in addition to an Imperial Navy, Space Marine, or Adeptus Mechanicus admiral.
-Any Inquisitor or Inquisitor Lord may be put on any capital ship of your choice.
-Each Inquisitor or Inquisitor Lord may purchase 0-2 rerolls for 25pts each.
Storm Trooper Strike Force - May take one per Inquisitor in your fleet and they may be on any capital ship that foes not have Space Marines on board. A ship with this upgrade may roll twice and pick the highest result in boarding actions. +10pts
Blackship
-no boarding or H&R bonuses anymore but now comes with a reroll.
-If it dies, the killer gets an extra 200vps. If the Blackship survives uncrippled and not disengaged, it give the Inquisitor player 200vps.
Grey Knight Battle Barge needs its own page (I have already created it)
Inquisitorial Cruiser
-250pts
-must purchase an Ordo upgrade for 25pts if an Inquisitor Lord is not on board.
-1 Inquisitorial Cruiser pre 3 cruisers. Takes the spot of a Grand Cruiser for fleets that use Grand Cruisers.
Ordo Heretius
-+2 to boarding, +1 to H&Rs and -1 to H&Rs against them
-Canoness Superior (function as Secondary Commanders like in the IN fleet)
-Sisters of Battle give the ship +1 to Boarding. +5 pts
-Celestions (function as Honor Guard without the SM +1) which may be taken on any ship with an Inquisitor or Canoness Superior. +5pts.
-Any Battleship or Inquisitorial Cruiser with an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord on it is considered to be an Exterminator ship or is given the Transport quality, depending on the relevant scenario.
The primary advantage of the Hereticus is in the Sisters of Battle boarding bonus that can be taken, which will make them more powerful in boarding but not too much. Also, the bonus Exterminator or Transport upgrade is the other. This adds to the feel of Hereticus which is all about cleansing Humanity and ultimately needs to invade and often Exterminatus worlds to have this done. The Exterminator upgrade is so... Inquisition...
Ordo Malleus
-+2 to boarding, +1 to H&Rs and -1 to H&Rs against them
-Brother-Captain (function as Secondary Commanders like in the IN fleet)
-Grey Knight Purifiers (function as SM Honor Guard) on any ship with a Brother-Captain or an Inquisitor on it.
-Grey Knight Paladins (function as SM Terminators) on any ship with an Inquisitor Lord on it.
-Ordo Malleus ships are immune to the effects of Marks of Chaos and Daemonships.
-A ship led by an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord may take 0-1 Grey Knights Battle Barge and Grey Knights Strike Cruisers instead of regular Strike Cruisers.
Malleus can take Terminators. That's a difference from the Hereticus. Also, this unlocks the Grey Knights options and provides the nice little defences against Chaos.
Ordo Xenos
-+2 to boarding, +1 to H&Rs and -1 to H&Rs against them
-Watch Captain (secondary commander exactly like they are in the IN list)
-Deathwatch Kill-team (counts as Honor Guard) may be taken on any capital ship. Ships with Kill-teams always get a +1 to H&Rs caused by their vessel and vessel's ordnance, even when not attacking from an Inquisitor Lord's vessel. +15pts
-Deathwatch First Company (counts as Terminators) may be taken on any vessel with an Inquisitor Lord.
Xenos looks much like Malleus but cannot get the goodies of the Grey Knight fleet. Instead, it gets the Deathwatch Kill-teams upgrade option.
*The last page in the 2010 Inquisition document can be simplified greatly into quick bullet points. It doesn't need to be so dang big and bloated.
*The Ordos have been cleaned up a bit to look a little more like a Space Marine upgrade and allow for more options to be taken relating to that Ordo. Each Ordo has some advantage over the other as referenced above.
*There will need to be a rule that says that Inquisitor Lord boarding an H&R upgrades do not stack with Space Marine special rules.
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So are all the ordos the same price now?
For the INQ cruiser, either the ship must have an embarked Inquisitor (to gain his Ordo rules) or must select an Ordo seperately, at the cost of 25 pts.
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So are all the ordos the same price now?
For the INQ cruiser, either the ship must have an embarked Inquisitor (to gain his Ordo rules) or must select an Ordo seperately, at the cost of 25 pts.
Same price. To get an Ordo upgrade, make your inquisitor an inquisitor lord or get an inquisitorial cruiser and pay the 25pts.
Yes, i will add that in. Had that added when I was first making the post but lost my progress accidentally...
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And do not forget the line that the Inquisitor can be placed on any ship in the whole fleet and is thus not restricted to the Inquisitor Cruiser, Blackship or similar.
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Can inquisitors buy rerolls?
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0-2 for 25pts each, can be put on any capital ship. I'll add that in.
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Alright, post edited. Should we vote first then I can edit the document?
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I second the motion
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OK! The document rough draft is done. Have a read through and proof-read please!
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1596994/BFGR%202/BFGR%20Inquisition.pdf
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On skimming:
Grey box Inquisitor Cruiser, first line, missing an 'o' in front of rdo. And it is missing all o's in that box!
Fleet list pages, Torm Trooper trike force, two times an s.
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On skimming:
Grey box Inquisitor Cruiser, first line, missing an 'o' in front of rdo. And it is missing all o's in that box!
Fleet list pages, Torm Trooper trike force, two times an s.
Hmm, it must not be loading for you because I can see those letters. Either way, I will compress the file into an image PDF at some point so that there isn't the weird text scanning that happens. I hope to do that will all the files at the end.
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Hmm. Weird, I opened it in Opera with the inbuild viewer, same in FireFox and lastly I downloaded it. No avail, they remain missing.
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I'll do a whole read through tonight and post all my results just like I did with Tyranids.
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Great! Thanks!
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Ya Im getting issues too, Chrome, IE, and Safari are all showing missing punctuation and letters.
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Hmm weird. I will try to switch it around a little to see if that fixes it.
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Ok, I flattened the PDF images and it should work now. I saw the problems when pulling it up through my browser and now I don't.
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Pg 1-
1st Column
There is no more Antarctica as there are no more oceans on Terra. May I suggest "Far underneath the bedrock of Holy Terra's southern pole exists..."
As well a citadel can't be underground. May I suggest "fortress" or "bastion".
May I suggest "The most shadowy and mysterious of the Imperium's organizations, it..." -Imperium instead of Emperor.
Under "Ordos Majoris" first sentence is a run on sentence.
Should be "Though its beginnings are shrouded in mystery dating back to the Horus Heresy, it is believed that the Inquisition coalesced into the beginnings of its curent form by the beginning of M32, some 800 years after the Heresy. The fledgling organization drew upon several well established Imperial institutions to form its essential components and apparatus, including the League of Blackships, the Officio Assassinorum and the "Witch Hunters" of the Sisters of Silence, all of which were active before the Heresy began.
10th line between the words "it" and "existed" add the word "has"
Between Orks and Dark Eldar, change "or" to "and"
2nd Column
Under Ordo Hereticus
"their focus is on mankind itself, FACING OFF against the witch, the heretic and the mutant, and they are pitiless (or remorseless) TOWARDS those who fail the Emperor"
"As part of this mandate, it is to this Ordo falls THE responsibility for..."
3rd column
"Far more are found unfit for whatever reason" change to "for these sacred duties". Works better IMO.
PAGE 2
1st column
When you begin talking about Vandires brides of the emperor, it should be a new paragraph.
End the Ordo Hereticus fluff with "would become the Ordo Hereticus' Chamber Militant"
Under ORDO XENOS
3rd line, put a comma after crusade.
starting 7th line from the bottom in the 1st column still "where its mandate continued to be the investigation and study of alien races AND to eliminate any alien threat ..."
2nd Column-
2nd paragraph, 6th line
"The Deathwatch are squads" should be "The Deathwatch are a chapter"
3rd to last line of Ordo Xenos, change term of service to Vigil (technical term for time in the deathwatch).
Under Ordo Mallues, 2nd/3rd line change "it traces" to "the Ordo Malleus traces"
3rd Page
1st Column, 3rd line: Change Master of the Inquition to Inquisitor Lord Terran (his Official Title)
last line before the picture of the grey knight, fotresses should not be capitalized.
2nd column
6th line of the main paragraph, change the word legions to chapters. As well, I would start the sentence "Chapter number 666, their founding is..."
Aegis Helm and Nemesis Force Halberd should be capitalized probably. As well, Halberd should be changed to weapon, since not all GK use halberds exclusively now. Current existing fluff suggests they are individually matched up with certain weapons that best suit them.
I don't know if they are the only chapter entirely made up of psykers. Exorcists might be, but not sure.
3rd Column
There is an empty line before THE ORDOS MINORIS- just a blank no text line.
4th line- remove the words Space Marines. 5th line, change the word one to "an Inquisitor"
3rd line from the end of the paragraph, should be "drawing Chaos Daemons" not Chaos demons.
4th page
5th Page
At the end of the description I would say "Renowned Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord Torquemada Coteaz". His name aslo has a typo as it is. There is no r. Coteaz, not Corteaz.
Special rules- Why are they Notes- Should they be Special Rules? if not, Notes should be bold.
Prow Torpedoes: Strength should be capitalized. M should be capitalized in Space Marine Crusade Fleet.
Dorsal Lances: Strength and Range should be capitalized.
page 6
second line, change the word very to extremely.
change the end of the first paragraph to "with only one purpose behind their design: planetary assault."
The font for famous ships is different than everywhere else. Looks doubled first of all, and the ship name should be in itallics.
Why are the BBs special rules in italics when no one elses were? Why are they notes instead of special rules?
page 7
1st column, 7th line between the words ship and from there should be a comma.
2nd column, after talking about mind wipe, I would say Grey Knight Justicars and Brother Captains are given a key word which will kill all the crew members etc. etc.
3rd column- Fortress Monastery should either be capitalized or everywhere else should be lower case. I also thing Fortress-monastery is suppossed to be hyphenated.
Notes should be Special Rules.
Replace Launch Bays missing strength for torpedoes and firepower for bombardment cannons
page 8
1st Column
under Capital Ships
Should be Any Imperial, Adeptus Mechanicus or Space Marine fleet may...
Inquistorial Cruiser- thoughout the rest of the document, you had the C in cruiser lower case. Should it be uppercase every where else?
2nd column, last line, serves should just be serve.
3rd Column, reserves and allies- It talks about RT vessels, but I thought only Ordo Hereticus could take RT vesselts in their fleets (according to the Ordo rules).
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Is this done? Can we vote?
As far as I can tell the only BFG:R stuff not done is RT, Corribra and Planetary Defenses
Orks seem nearly there
This just needs a vote
Bakka is nearly there
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Gothmog, do you think the changes you mentioned are sufficiently changed in the document yet?
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Gothmog, do you think the changes you mentioned are sufficiently changed in the document yet?
I take it this means no...
I tried PMing you but your inbox is full. What program do you use to create/edit pdfs?
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I am simply asking if you can see the changes in the current BFG:R document that you mentioned. I believe I fixed all the things you mentioned or made it something similar. I have cleared out my PM box. Sorry about that!
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Will check later. At gw right now.
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Sounds good.
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I am simply asking if you can see the changes in the current BFG:R document that you mentioned. I believe I fixed all the things you mentioned or made it something similar. I have cleared out my PM box. Sorry about that!
The one on your website doesn't have any of the changes....
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Should be the right one now.
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Nope. And actually now there are some new errors on the last page that you had previously fixed
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OK. I'll check it when i can. Some of your edits I did not do BTW because i didn't agree with them or they weren't necessary. They were really just in the lore section.
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OK. I'll check it when i can. Some of your edits I did not do BTW because i didn't agree with them or they weren't necessary. They were really just in the lore section.
Thats okay, but I went to the last page and things like the LD for the Inquistor were missing, and the limits on the cannoness, etc. etc. As well other accurate changes weren't made, like Coteaz's name is still mispelled (Coteaz, not Corteaz)
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Hmm, something went wrong on my end. I'll check it out.