Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: Gothmog Lord of Balrogs on May 19, 2013, 06:54:19 AM
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So in light of the discussion about the Annihilator Grand Cruiser, and out of some boredom, I designed this baby next.
MODIFIED
Goliath Class Grand Cruiser
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/MoriartheChosen/BFG/GoliathGrandCruiser.jpg) (http://s26.photobucket.com/user/MoriartheChosen/media/BFG/GoliathGrandCruiser.jpg.html)
Virtually non-existant in modern Imperial fleets, the Goliath Class is believed to have been originally designed to escort heavy gunships into battle, particularly the Avenger Class, known for its fearsome broadsides. Its unique blend of ordnance carrying capacity and fearsome lance batteries make it very adept at filling the fleet support roll, a roll which sector commands have employed it in for millenia.
One shining example of the class was the Indomitable Spirit. Serving in the vanguard of the original Sabbat Worlds Crusade, the ship is rumoured to have been blessed by the Beati, Saint Sabbat, herself. Part of the renowned Iron squadron, the Spirit and her two Avenger sister ships reaped a bloody tally during the campaign, destroying no less than five battleship and grand cruiser class vessels, as well as many other capital and escort ships. After the campaign, the vessels were left at the core of Battlefleet Erinyes, representing the power and might of the Imperium in the region. However, by late M40, the forces of Chaos had reclaimed much of the hard won worlds and were threatening the collapse of Imperial rule in multiple subsectors. In an attempt to counter the threat, Battlefleet Erinyes mustered near the edge of an area of space known as the Sanguinary Worlds, which was infested with pirates and heretical forces and the greatest source of strife in the sector. As the fleet prepared to push into the hostile region, the Indomitable Spirit opened fire on her sister ships, crippling both of them with her powerful lance batteries. As the Spirit fled into the void, waves of starhawk bombers destroyed the bridges of the two stricken vessles, ensuring no pursuit was possible and thwarting Imperial efforts of bringing control back to the region.
When Warmaster Slaydo launched his second crusade of the Sabbat Worlds, Imperial forces encountered a Goliath Class on several occassions, idetifying it as the Soul Reaper. Whether this is the traitorous Indomitable Spirit or another vessel in the service of the arch-enemy has yet to be conclusively determined.
Goliath Class Grand Cruiser- 250
Type/Hits Speed Turns Shields Armour Turrets
Grand Cruiser/10 20cm 45* 3 5+ 3
Armament Range/Speed Firepower/Strength Fire Arc
Port LB Fighters: 30cm 3 squadrons -
Bombers: 20cm
(Assault Boats: 30cm)
Stbd LB Fighters: 30cm 3 squadrons -
Bombers: 20cm
(Assault Boats: 30cm)
Port Lances 60cm 2 L
Stbd Lances 60cm 2 R
Famous Ships: Indomitable Spirit, Soul Reaper, Undying Flame
For +5 points, the Goliath class may take assault boats (as listed in the profile above)
So what do you think?
How do the rules stack up? How does the fluff? The cost?
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An Excorcist variant. Having more direct gunnery but less launch bays (BFG:R), or the same.
Dunno. It can exist I assume. Point cost seem fine for a starter.
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An Excorcist variant. Having more direct gunnery but less launch bays (BFG:R), or the same.
Dunno. It can exist I assume. Point cost seem fine for a starter.
Yeah, basically the Exorcist with lances rather than WB. Same Str LBs.
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Ah yes, the official Excorcist has 4 launch bays (jay).
So, for +20pts you give the vessel an equivalent of at least 8 weapon batteries more.
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Ah yes, the official Excorcist has 4 launch bays (jay).
So, for +20pts you give the vessel an equivalent of at least 8 weapon batteries more.
Smotherman formula came up with 251 points for the ship I think
8 x 45cm WB are worth 24 points according to the formula.
I wouldn't be oppossed to bumping it up 5 to 10 points. Or maybe slap some sort of restriction on it instead?
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Don't use Smotherman formula. Ever.
Also, the top lance deck on a Vengeance gives 1L@45cmL+R per hardpoint (see Vengeance and Executor). From the Executor we can see that the bottom lance decks give 2L@30cmL+R per hardpoint. These could be "wrong" but I see no precedent to suggest it. They could be varied (ie, longer range, etc), but I see no reason to do so.
So I would give those two variants different profiles, 6AC & 2L@45cmL+R for one, 6AC, 2L@30cmL+R & 1L@45cmL+R for the other. There would presumably be a third variant with 6AC & 4L@30cmL+R.
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6 AC? The other ones only have 4.
And the two different pictures were solely for variety of the picture. I didn't even give thought to the different decks having different capacity.
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6 AC? The other ones only have 4.
Yes, but unlike the lances there is plenty of reason to change that.
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How so? I could easily add a line in the fluff that due to the reduced power demands by other weapon systems, that the lances were able to have improved power condiuts and have a larger draw, thus allowing greater range.
However, AC and LBs will always take up the same volume. It's not like they are going to find more space to put more fighters.
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Older ships may have more automation allowing for more capacity.
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But this would be as old as the other Grand cruisers with a capacity of 4.
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Yup makes no sense huh? Welcome to 40k.
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How so? I could easily add a line in the fluff that due to the reduced power demands by other weapon systems, that the lances were able to have improved power condiuts and have a larger draw, thus allowing greater range.
However, AC and LBs will always take up the same volume. It's not like they are going to find more space to put more fighters.
The Dictator, Mars, Dominion & Devastation are cruisers that output 2AC per bay, having only 1 bay per side. The Emperor & Despoiler are BBs that have 2 bays per side, each outputting 2AC. The Styx is a cruiser that has 2 bays per side, each outputting 1.5AC. This suggests that you can get 2AC per bay at a cruiser level when you have only 1 hardpoint per side allocated but more than that reduces your capacity. On a BB however you can maintain 2AC per hardpoint. So why would grand cruisers, which straddle the line between battleships and cruisers get less AC per hardpoint than even the Styx? At worst they should get 1.5 per hardpoint.
For BFG:R the woeful Retaliator was fixed to go to 6AC, bringing it into balance and eliminating this disparity. The Exorcist follows suit for the sake of form rather than balance of course.
The only ship that outputs 1 AC per bay is the Defiant and this is because it's a CL and even then there was much handwringing (MUCH! If we could have easily given it 1.5 AC per bay we would have).
Therefore the 2 hardpoints per side of this ship should follow the form of all other examples out there, rather than that of the original Retaliator or Exorcist.
I would suggest leaving the lances as per the Vengeance/Executor examples.
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Now those are all good points. I'll change it later
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Updated it.
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well, i think this is another nice variant of the vengeance CG chassis (i like some vaiation to the existing ships :D ), and i think the updated version is okay.
taking lances instead of WB's might make some sense against necrons, orks (when closing), and marines...
but really, as this is a support vessel not intended for closing in on the enemy, but rather staying back and keeping abeam, i would probably prefer the exorcist in most cases, as its WB's have a good chance of getting a lot more dice than the goliath's lances since the enemy has to close in to the ship while it itself presents its broadside to the enemy....
thinking of it, with the appropriate ships to support (tyrant w/ range upgrade, anyone?) the goliath would have a good use though in a lot of fleets IMO.
standing alone (fleet-wise), the exorcist would be better because it can take cae of itself to some extent.
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Bump it to 60cm and you have a solid support ship to circle an engagement.
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Problem is that no other vengeance type hull has 60 cm range lances (or anything that I can think of. )
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Well the Vengeance has 60cm Weapons batteries. The 45's should be fine tho.
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Well by virtue of the class' age the Lances should be 60cm. The Imperium had the tech then and 60cm makes since on a ship that shouldn't be alone or closing the range on hostile ships.
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i agree on the 60cm lances, they would make sense.... in comparison to the vengeance: vengeance has the power to support the 45cm lances AND 60cm WB's, so i think when removing the WB's, there should be sufficient energy to power up the lances to 60cm, shouldn't it? :D
and 60cm lances would definitely give the goliath a clear long range fleet support role the exorcist cannot fulfill.
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If you look though, the Exorcist only has 45cm WB, and the Retaliator only has 45cm lances as well.
However, the Retaliator has S6 WB @ 30cm in addition to s2 45cm lances. 60cm probably is a good idea with that in mind...
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Considering the other BFG:R GC I thought at 45cm it should be cheaper OR I could keep it 250 and bump up the range to 60cm lances. Given the fact it is suppossed to fill mroe of a support role, I went with the 60cm.
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Speaking of Chaos, I made short test animation lately, thought you might be interested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DiIYCS7Mvc
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That was actually some pretty cool 3d modelling.
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That was fantastic! How long did it take to do?
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Well quite long unfortunately but it's because I'm consumed by work also had some pc issues to solve. Generally about 2 months in my free time. Now I'm going to make some bigger animation, with my other done models - Tau explorer, barracuda, manta, orca and Chaos hellblade. I can past some screens of models if u like.
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Very cool :).