Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: Lord Duggie The Mad on May 21, 2013, 01:37:47 PM
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Gentlemen, a question if I may:
I've submitted my 'panic order' to games workshop in the hopes of scratching together the last bit of kit before it is condemned to obscurity. Part of the order were two grand cruisers, one for my chaos fleet and one for my imperial fleet.
I've more or less settled on building an executor for the chaos fleet - the prospect of half a dozen lances was too much to resist.
My real conundrum is what to do with the imperial version. My fleet is largely gun based, sporting just the one Mars cruiser and a Dictator so I know the launch bay capacity is a bit light. I had thought of constructing either the vengeance class (read: overgrown lunar) or the avenger for ridiculous short range firepower but I'm torn as to whether I should build the carrier version instead. 230 points for four launch bays and a medium coating of 45cm firepower (and no torpedoes) seems a little expensive to me and I'm not convinced a heavily shielded bully like a grand cruiser should be a second line ship. Then again, I've never fielded them before so its something of an unknown quantity to me.
I have thought of magnetizing the hull to facilitate changing the weapons around but I have the modelling skills of an arthritic penguin. Let's assume that magnetizing is off the cards for the moment - which option would you suggest I go with?
Cheers,
LDTM
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Magnetise them both and paint them kinda unique from both you chaos and IN (they are older than IN and newer than chaos likely), so you can then make them any in either fleet.
Or just paint them to match each fleet and still magnetize.
BFG:R gives it 6 LBs.
Since you are likely playing a Segmentum Obscurus fleet, you could always take the executor in you IN fleet as well as a Reserve. HOWEVER your fleet becomes subject to Stange Happenings.
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I have thought of magnetizing the hull to facilitate changing the weapons around but I have the modelling skills of an arthritic penguin.
same here, but i found magnetizing to be kinda easy on the GC with 2x1 mm magnets and iron foil.
the iron foil goes onto the gun and LB parts, its just a thin sheet that needs to be cut in the appropriate size, no big deal really. and the magnets can just simply be stuck on the upper gun mounts without and drilling, and the lower ones just need a shallow crater drilled in for them to fit.
afterimagedan (it was him with the magnetizing tutorials, wasn't it?) stuck paperclips on the backside of the weapons parts, dunno if that works with my method of just sticking on small magnets onto the ship without any drilling tho... (he used larger magnets and hence had to do some drilling)
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Yep. Paperclips and staples. Magnetizing isn't very hard so I bet you can do it. Make a little mark in the pewter where you want the magnet and that helps your drill bit stay on target.
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Thank you, chaps. Staples and paperclips might be easier for me to source in Japan - I wouldn't really know where to find the right foil but thank you for the suggestion.
Must download the BFG:R book and have a look - six launch bays does make better sense in my mind considering the Styx can also field six wings. Is the points cost still the same or a little heavier?
Cheers,
LDTM
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Finally got my mits on the two grand cruisers I ordered. I did manage to magnetize the lower decks of each one so one option gives me the Exorcist/avenger alternatives, the other provides the executor/vengeance options. It might be callous of me but I don't really see myself using a retaliator when a Styx class is available.
I did have a quick squizz at that magnet website over in the US (can't remember the name) but posting to Japan was going to cost 4 times as much as the product itself. Solution: go down to Daiso (100 yen store) and source some 10mm wide by 1mm thick magnetic tape. Got a whole meter of the stuff for less than a can of fizz. Not bad, huh? Depending if I can get a hold of these tiny drill-in magnets I might even be able to to the upper decks, too.
Thanks for your ideas, chaps.
Now to matters even more vexing - how to paint these two sods... 8)
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On the note of using grand cruisers as second line support.
An IN grand cruiser does have more hits and shields than a line or battlecruiser, that's true. But it lacks the 6+ prow.
Without that, it will be the target of choice during the approach if used in the frontline. Both the Vengeance and the Excorcist are built to hang back and provide long range support. Both lack range and prow guns or armour, but both have long range weapons in their broadsides (counting launchbays as weapons here). Just like the emperor, there is nothing wrong with making them sit in the second row and take potshots till the fighting gets hot.
The Avenger is really the only one of the bunch that wants to close with the rest of the line cruisers. And most people don't like it because it's not very good at doing exactly that. (Not saying the ship is bad, but that you need a plan to overcome it's inherent design quirk to get good use out of it and not just plonk it down to 'see how it goes'.)
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Yeah, the exorcist variant will most likely be the one I use most often - my imperial navy fleet is a bit light on attack craft. For giggles though I do like the idea of the avenger (we don't usually play competitive games), I noted in the BFG:R they upped the broadsides to 20, which I suppose is a reaction to the caveat you identify.
I think I prefer the idea of the exorcist over the dictator in the sense that I would probably be less inclined to brace, being a beefier vessel - and as you point out, second line in so its not necessarily HMS Priority Target
I'm quite pleased I ordered the models - they were part of my panic order and despite being, ahem, "testing" to put together (something like 6 pins in each one thank-you-very-much), I think they are striking pieces. I also rather like the fact that two dauntless classes and a grand cruiser come in sub-500 ;)
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I didn't want to clutter up the forum with another thread so I thought I'd tack it on here:
I've since assembled my grand cruisers and magnetized them as best I can (pictures when I get to Japan). I ended up putting magnets on the lower decks but couldn't get the upper gun decks done satisfactorily so I ended up gluing the chaos weapon battery pieces directly to the model.
Anyway, I have one grand cruiser which can morph between exorcist and avenger variants. But...I also glued together a couple of imperial lance pieces and these can fit perfectly in the lower decks. So, suppose I were to field a ship with the weapons batteries up top and lance decks on the bottom, I figured it would like an avenger variant that had it's lower decks swapped out after its accompanying gothic cruiser got it's tail section sheered off. Can't let good lances go to waste can we?
Ideas: Same price as the avenger but 30cm strength four lances left and right, as well as 30cm strength four firepower left and right. (using the idea that lunars and gothics are the same price). Or perhaps an extra 15-20 points for strength 8 firepower?
Any thoughts, chaps?
Cheers,
LDTM
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For your magnet troubles, these might help: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170806449706
(late as it is)
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Thanks, Islacrusez. I think I might have seen similar things from the hobby stores in Akihabara so I'll scratch around and see what I can find.
Just a quick note of curiosity; any idea how much 'grip' those puppies have? I know Neodymium has a pretty strong field but they're mighty small (oxymoron, I know)...
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Just from playing with them it seems that they're very good at holding to each other, but not so good holding on to anything else. Haven't tried them properly yet though, so will do some testing in proper construction and get back to you.
I know someone else recommended them to me, so maybe they'll be able to advise better!
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Much obliged good sir.
I played a couple of smaller games with the exorcist under the official rules and even though I thought that 4 wings of attack craft was a bit thin given the number of bays on the model it performed quite well. I have to say, the model is a looker. I can't play any BFG until I'm back home but will keep those wee magnets in mind and see if I can get a hold of some.
Cheers,
LDTM
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I have an Exorcist and vengeance for my imperial fleet, really regret not getting on for my chaos fleet though.
I like the exorcist as it has a decent launch bay ability and a nice broadside with range, never used it due to stand issues, but I think it could work well with a gothic, using it's firepower to take down the shields, the gothic then lances.
Anyone know why they don't count towards battleships?
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Apologies for the late reply, Zarathustra Sucuine, I've been away from the forum for a while.
I went down the same road as you, although I build an executioner for my chaos fleet (lancey goodness).
I tried out a couple of games with the 10FP broadside exorcist and was quite surprised how effective it can be. Rather impressed.
I'm not sure why they don't count towards battleships but if I had to hazard a guess I would say it may be because they are quite similar in size and the developers were trying to avoid overly 'heavy' fleets. I know that kind of goes out the window with a chaos fleet: 2 cruisers, 1 heavy, 1 grand, 1 battleship but yeah...
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Had my first game with my Exorcist yesterday, she aquited herself far better then the rest of the fleet, the game ending with the eldar fleet (I'd taken out about half his escorts, cripple one of his cruisers and damaged the other) the 3 shields, turrets and 10 hull makes it s beast, and I'm thinking it would fair well against most other fleets.
I'm going to be bringing my Vengenace with me next term as an alternative to my Apocalypse battleship in bigger games against eldar (I generally don't tailor lists but have been told necron and eldar are okay) but as an Avenger,the sheer amount of gunnery being should be enough to hurt the eldar dispite their holofields.
Looking at the load outs, I'm wishing I had made it as an Avenger anyway, as 2 lances either side is not exactly great, though I guess it's range could be good, but the avenger for 10pts less but more dakka seems better, especially against eldar :P
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On the question of grip on those magnets, 3-4 pairs of them are sufficient to keep the wing+tail sections of a Valkyrie attached to the central section! Don't ask me why I magnetised a Valkyrie.
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I bought 3 Vengeance Class GC kits from GW and since they went out of production obtained 4 more from ebay. Five of the six completed GCs are used in a 4000+ point Bastion Fleet which has no battlecruisers: 3 Vengeance Class, 2 Exorcist Class.
One kit is built as an Executor. There were extra lance turrets due to building the Exorcists so it has 8 turrets in the nicely detailed upper weapons bays on the original hull, not the usual plastic Chaos lance bays that are glued over them. It will be painted in a different colour scheme so it can represent a reserve fleet ship or be used in a Chaos fleet. (The fluff is odd in Armada, stating that none are left in Imperial service, yet they are available as a Bastion Fleet reserve choice.)
The seventh kit hasn't been finished because I haven't decided between another Executor, an Avenger or a third Exorcist. I don't need a Chaos Retaliator, having enough Styx and Devastation Class cruisers for my Assault Craft needs. An Avenger might be a good squadron mate for my Executor. The Bastion fleet has an Emperor and 2 Dictators so is well off for AC squadrons with the existing 2 Exorcists.
In another thread I read that some of the Vengeance kits went together well but in my experience every one of them required careful gluing and pinning to get the lower rear hull, middle and prow sections level, and then quite a bit of filing to make the upper stern sit level on the lower hull (as cast they slope downward toward the engines). More filing was required to get the bridge level on the stern without it also tilting backward.
Without filing they would have looked like the predominantly humpbacked models that appeared in Armada and the BFG magazines. When assembled with care they look great imo and are my favourite BFG model.
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Seven grand cruisers? :o I may be a little bit eccentric but you, sir, are completely bonkers ;)
I found myself having to do a lot of filing on mine as well. Worth it though as they are striking pieces.
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I'm sure my wife would agree with you!
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How are people representing the Retaliator Class GC? There are two versions shown in the Armada rulebook, one with a Chaos cruiser bridge, 2 launch bays and 2 Imperial weapons batteries, the other with one weapons bay replaced by an Imperial lance battery, and a standard Vengeance Class bridge versus the plastic Chaos bridge. The latter matches the ship's armament but the former doesn't because it lacks lance batteries.
On the version with the lance battery the turrets are hidden by the overhanging launch bay so the lance battery should have been installed upside down as on the Executor Class (although Executor's lance turrets aren't blocked by the Chaos lance batteries above them and didn't need to be upside down!).
Another issue that's been pointed out in various forums is that with only 2 squadrons of attack craft per side, there's no reason for the model to have 2 launch bays on each side because one bay can hold 2 squadrons.
Most I've seen modelled, and that's not many, have the 2 launch bays, Vengeance Class bridge and 2 Imperial weapons batteries, but no representation of the port and starboard lances.
Wouldn't it make more sense and match the model's stats better to build a Retaliator with 2 Imperial weapons batteries below, and a single Chaos launch bay and Chaos lance battery on the upper deck? I'm asking because I'm ready to install the weapons on my 7th GC model and will probably build it as a Retaliator.
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I'm asking because I'm ready to install the weapons on my 7th GC model and will probably build it as a Retaliator.
Magnets....?
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I've magnetized a lot of 40K models but already have 1-2 of all Vengeance Class variants except the Retaliator so don't need to magnetize it. I'm interested in how to configure it to better match the stats and still have it obviously representing a Retaliator.
Just did a test fit and have decided on two options:
1) 2 Imperial weapons batteries on the lower tier, 1 Chaos lance battery and 1 launch bay on the upper.
2) 1 Imperial weapons battery below in the aft position and 1 lance battery forward and upside down, 2 Chaos launch bay on top (lance battery forward because I'm short on Imperial lance turrets and need to use Chaos turrets which are too tall to fit upside down in the aft position - won't fit because the lower hull piece for the flying stand is under the rear weapons position)
Opinions?