Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: PST on June 02, 2013, 11:13:26 AM
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I want to do some more resilient and user-friendly bases for our fleets. Before reinventing the wheel, and not having found anything specific in searches, I was wondering what other people might have done for rebasing their fleets.
I know afterimagedan uses steel rods and the standard bases.
Litko don't seem to do anything specific for BFG (and their shipping to the UK is a little pricey).
Corsec is likewise very pricey when you get to doing multiple fleets (assuming GW gets round to sending them).
As a follow-up to the general 'any ideas':
Do BFG ships have to be based on circular bases as I found this when searching around:
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/11/9/63297_md-Battlefleet%20Gothic%2C%20Fleet%2C%20Frigate%2C%20Gladius%2C%20Space%20Marines.jpg
For attack craft, I've seen some on epic strip bases, and others on 20mm(?) square bases. Any rules on what they have to be based on?
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Bases should be round or it will throw off how ordinance interacts. The faq says to use the square bases for ordinance as that matches the box set but alot of people still use the strips.
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They need to be on a round base. A design like that, even if it is the same overall area, can zoom through blastmarker and whatnot much easier.
When I get my BFG back (still in House Hold Goods shipment coming back from Japan) I am going to be using nuts and bolts to mount them. Basically intend to attach a small nut to the bottom of each ship and a bolt to the base. THen I just screw on the ships for games and unscrew them for storage. Likely going to drill up into the ship still some so it isn't just the tip of the bolt in the nut.
I also kinda want to do a display diorama, so I can put the bolts in all over the place and at multiple angles to get cool effects.
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I've found that if you just drill a bigger hole in the bottom of the ship and insert the entire stick in,rather than just the little nubbin at the tip, durablity is drasticly increased. Have to be careful with some of the smaller escorts but mostly everything else can be drilled out larger. I normally do 1/8 inch.
I also remember awhile back someone on ebay was selling aluminum sticks for BFG. Haven't seen it recently. Its nice to have that draft on the stick as it looks nice but straight brass rod will certainly be durable. Its normally the stick that fails not the base although I have had a couple over the years break in half.
I was thinking about making some bases soon with a little rectangle that rides behind it so you can easily put a label on it. I think that the need/desire to proxy ships will rise sooner than we think and this will be a nicer way to go about it.
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I've seen the aluminium flight stands, but at about £2.5 each it'd be prohibitively expensive to do a lot of ships.
I'm thinking acrylic bases, steel stand and magnet glued into the ship might be the most effective way of achieving flexibility and sturdiness at the same time.
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the problem with magnets it that the ships, especially BB, aren't perfectly balanced, so it would likely tip itself off the stand.
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So for the BBs it'd be better to drill and fit with a steel rod instead then?
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The seller on eBay is Sleepy's Stems. The aluminum rods are fantastic and are a dead match for the plastic ones. I got a whole pile off him for a special deal and have no clue what his prices are now. Regardless they are nice
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$10 for 3. Which really pushes it outside the realm of affordable.
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Yeah, I'm liking the Ninja Magic magnetics, but already running into a balance problem with them and the Vengeance hull. The prow badly overbalanced it forward... May see how it works with plastic/putty/possibly resin. I'm beginning to think I might want metal rods for the BBs and magnetics for plastics.
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Here's my way...
http://afterimagedan.blogspot.com/2012/03/basing-battlefleet-gothic-ships-better.html?m=1
Cheap and quite easy to do.
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I'm currently working with a small US company who sells plastic wargaming bases to produce a generic flying base that will be very suitable for BFG. The bases will be black styrene, include heading and fire arc marks, and will work with 2mm brass or styrene rod (styrene is fine for escorts, brass is preferred for everything else).
Should be available in around 4 weeks or so and cheaper than the GW price ;)
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Let us know when they're done, zac. I have a need of some new bases, as do some of my friends. I'll have them hold out in buying them from GW.
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http://stores.ebay.com/Hurlbat-Games - this store has relatively cheap laser cut plastic bases in various sizes, I started to use them recently, both 30 and 60mm work great. Ok, I know GW small base is actually something like 31,5, but the difference is nearly nonexistant and doesnt impact the game at all.
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Let us know when they're done, zac. I have a need of some new bases, as do some of my friends. I'll have them hold out in buying them from GW.
Sounds good. It is definitely doing ahead - the manufacturer is working on machining the moulds as we speak!
I'll post on here when they're ready ;)
http://stores.ebay.com/Hurlbat-Games - this store has relatively cheap laser cut plastic bases in various sizes, I started to use them recently, both 30 and 60mm work great. Ok, I know GW small base is actually something like 31,5, but the difference is nearly nonexistant and doesnt impact the game at all.
It's so strange how everybody quotes the base as being 30mm when it's actually a little bigger! Does nobody use a ruler?
I'm personally not a fan of anything laser cut, especially bases. The flatness and perpendicular sides look really bland IMO.
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I'm currently working with a small US company who sells plastic wargaming bases to produce a generic flying base that will be very suitable for BFG. The bases will be black styrene, include heading and fire arc marks, and will work with 2mm brass or styrene rod (styrene is fine for escorts, brass is preferred for everything else).
Should be available in around 4 weeks or so and cheaper than the GW price ;)
I'm guessing it's the bases shown in your special eBay fleet? If so they're looking really good! So good I'm gonna stop buying GW bases until I see what you come up with. :)
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I've been using magnets for basing for a while now. I generally use neodymium N42 magnets from K&J magnetics.
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=10 (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=10)
On the smaller escorts I place one 1/8th by 1/32nd magnet on the bottom of the ship and one 1/8th by 1/16th magnet on the stand (I usually cut the stand back by a quarter inch to match the diameters). On larger escorts/ cruisers I'll use 1/16 thickness magnets on both sides of the join. For battleships I use these (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D2X8 (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D2X8)) as the stand part of the magnet pair. They are quite strong and if you inset the magnet hole slightly into the ship they don't seem to have much trouble with tipping.
You should paint a forward mark on the ship base since the ships tend to swing back and forth when bumped. Ninja magic makes base adaptors that are toothed to avoid this problem, but I find them a little pricey for what you get.
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I'm guessing it's the bases shown in your special eBay fleet? If so they're looking really good! So good I'm gonna stop buying GW bases until I see what you come up with. :)
Sure is, except those are the resin prototypes. The production ones will be black styrene. Here's a pic (the one on the right):
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w108/mangozac/BFGothic/Scratchbuilding/base_WIP_2.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/mangozac/media/BFGothic/Scratchbuilding/base_WIP_2.jpg.html)
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Ive been doing bases with steel rods similar to the way Dan does his, although I have added magnets for all the of the escort and smaller ships. One advantage to steel rods is that you only need one magnet per ship because the magnets stick quite nicely top the steel rods.
I use 1/8" welding rods cut with a hacksaw and ground flat on a bench grinder (or coarse file). 1/8" holes are drilled into the ships as deep as they can go without breaking through to the top side of the ship and the 1/8" x 1/16" magnets are glued into the bottom of the holes. On some of the shallower ships the bottoms of the magnets are flush with the bottom of the ships, but they still work fine just sitting on top of the steel rods.
Another advantage to this method is that the (unnamed) bases for escorts can be used across different fleets so you don't need to make as many bases.
Side note: I also made up some bases using smaller 3/32" steel welding rod, planning to use then for some of the smaller ships, but have found the almost all of the Imperial and Chaos ships, except some of the very smallest system ships, are big enough to take a 1/8" holes for 1/8" rods and magnets.
Very much looking forward to seeing Zac's bases too.
Tim
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It's taken a little longer than planned, but the first production samples of my new base are on their way so I'm pretty eager to see them! There's been a change of plans and I'll now be selling them myself through my online store (among other places in the future). Hold off a little longer guys - it will be worth it!
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We've tallied up how many we need in my group. Just awaiting your word.
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For battleships that are otherwise liable to break their stands I cut the little pin off the top of the plastic rods and drill out the hole in the ship so that the whole rod will fit in, much like Unseelied. I've never had any problems with them like that.
I would be perfectly allowing of hexagonal bases (as they are close enough to circular), but I agree that I would have a problem with those elliptical ones.
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The elliptical ones should be fine as long as all players in the battle are playing with them. In effect, they are a rule variant. They represent the shape of the ship, since the edge of the a circular base will be closer to the ship at the front and much further away at the sides, so an elliptical base is more equidistant (albeit crude).
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But that would mean Tau FW vessels should have the elliptical once sideways.
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But that would mean Tau FW vessels should have the elliptical once sideways.
To me it would also require 3 base sizes. Escort, cruiser and bb. Then otbitals and bsf have round bases...
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And since sjips are sctually the very midpoont of the base, that suggests that they are effected by events (asteroid clusters, blast markers) within a few hundred km. Since the scale is so large the fact that the f/r of the base is 1 to 3 km closer than the l/r is irrelevant.
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That speaks more to BFG's fudged scale more than anything else. How the hell does an as asteroid field affect you when you're 1500km away from it? How does a ship ram you when it's actually passing 3000km away (sure there's a leadership roll for manoeuvring into position, but it's hell of a detour when you're supposed to be routing all power into going forward). More importantly, why do shell impacts on shields produce blast markers which are 3000km across when hitting a ship that's only 1.5km? That's 2000x the size of the ship! More importantly the ship's shields soaked the damage that case that blast marker.
No, it's a variant rule as good as any other. And yes, Tau ships would suffer from this one (though the original GW ones wouldn't, but they've suffered enough!). Which is why a Tau player probably wouldn't agree to play by it.
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Eh... Tau suffer from s what?
And yes. Bfg had a fun scale. 8)
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Asteroid fields arent just 10 or 11 big rocks. What you put on the field is representative of a densly packed area of space with thoudands if not millions of rocks
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That may be, but you are still 1500 km away from it. More if you're a bigger ship. And how is that supposed to work? The difference between your ship and the edge of the small base is still negligible, but suddenly you can be affected by torps and asteroids some 3000km away?
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Torpedoes have been explained: they are able to lock on and guide themselves towards the ship once they come within the base range.
I think the warping of scale by using an elliptical base is far worse than any of the other practical mechanics relating to the bases (such as asteroids, blast markers, etc.). I wouldn't use elliptical bases, nor would I want to play against someone with them.
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Asteroids arent 1500km apart in an asteroid feild. Think of it more like star wars
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Asteroids arent 1500km apart in an asteroid feild. Think of it more like star wars
No, but you're 1500km away from them when you come into base contact. That's what I'm getting at. Speaking of which, just how do you bring your point-defence turrets to bear against a target that's 3000km away? That's roughly the radius of Mars.
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Asteroid feilds aren't constrained by exact boundaries. As well for fighters/bombers you dont necessarily only open fire at that range. Remember that tis is all static/stop motion simulation of what would be in constant motion. So those bombers are engaged as they approach.
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how do people feel about hexagonal (or octagonal) bases? I have a bunch of Hex bases made up for aircraft, and they seem well suited for showing facing, and for placing torpedo markers (while i am considering getting octagonals made up, because they'd also be good for 45 and 90 degree turns)
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Asteroid feilds aren't constrained by exact boundaries. As well for fighters/bombers you dont necessarily only open fire at that range. Remember that tis is all static/stop motion simulation of what would be in constant motion. So those bombers are engaged as they approach.
Referring to massing turrets. Where you are literally 3000km from the ship you're defending, assuming you personally are in base to base contact with it, and more than likely just as far if not further (you're 4500km if they attack from the opposite side, and while admittedly they'll close to 3000km, they're going to be behind the friendly ship for most of that time).
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how do people feel about hexagonal (or octagonal) bases? I have a bunch of Hex bases made up for aircraft, and they seem well suited for showing facing, and for placing torpedo markers (while i am considering getting octagonals made up, because they'd also be good for 45 and 90 degree turns)
While I don't think that hexs/octagons look as cool as circles, mechanically they're close enough that IMO they'd be fine. It's just ellipses that I'd have a problem with ;)
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Back on topic, I'm just organising the stems for the boutique bases. The bases themselves will be black styrene. The stems however will be either acrylic or ABS rod 2mm diameter. Getting black rods in this kind of size and material is proving a pain - would clear rods suffice? Being acrylic they will be much stronger than the GW clear styrene stems.
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I can only speak for myself, but anything that doesn't snap when minor pressure (such as touching it, or even looking at it the wrong way) is applied like the stock GW stands would work for me.
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Clear is fine, they will be painted regardless of colour. :)
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You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to source non-white 2mm rod in any material other than carbon fibre! Of course unless you want to purchase by the tonne from China!
I think I'm just going to have to run with white 0.080 (2mm) styrene from Plastruct (bought in bulk and cut to size to supply with the bases). I feel that extruded styrene is going to give the best results for the most economical price - it's strong, rigid and has a lot more flex before it snaps, unlike the moulded clear styrene used in the GW bases and stems. Of course, brass is the ultimate material, but it's prohibitively expensive.
So a black base with white styrene stem. Will everyone be painting it anyway?
There has been a slight hold up on the bases (an issue with the mould had got the bearing marks off-centred) too. I'll keep you posted!
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Those magnets are VERY expensive.
Just got some of these: 500 1/8" x 1/16" magnets for $11.02 SHIPPED
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-x-Neodymium-Disc-1-8-X-1-16-Super-Strong-Rare-Earth-Magnet-N35-D3x1-5mm-/170806449706?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c4db962a
I've been using magnets for basing for a while now. I generally use neodymium N42 magnets from K&J magnetics.
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=10 (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=10)
On the smaller escorts I place one 1/8th by 1/32nd magnet on the bottom of the ship and one 1/8th by 1/16th magnet on the stand (I usually cut the stand back by a quarter inch to match the diameters). On larger escorts/ cruisers I'll use 1/16 thickness magnets on both sides of the join. For battleships I use these (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D2X8 (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D2X8)) as the stand part of the magnet pair. They are quite strong and if you inset the magnet hole slightly into the ship they don't seem to have much trouble with tipping.
You should paint a forward mark on the ship base since the ships tend to swing back and forth when bumped. Ninja magic makes base adaptors that are toothed to avoid this problem, but I find them a little pricey for what you get.
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Just bought a pack of those; guess I'll see if they're any good soon enough!
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Guys I'm sorry to have to report that my injection moulded bases have fallen through :(
The supplier has had a lot of issues creating the tooling and the resulting casts are just unacceptable. While the custom bases are still something we want to pursue, unfortunately it's probably not going to happen for a while longer. I'm really sorry to those of you who have been hanging out for them! :-[
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Very sorry to hear that Zac...
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That's a shame.
Not that it'll help you now, but my dollars are definitely pledged toward the deluxe bases when they do happen!
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Thanks guys, I appreciate the support. I still definitely plan to go ahead with it, but I just wanted to make sure nobody in urgent need of them was waiting for me ;)
I'll keep this thread updated with any news!