Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: andys on June 22, 2013, 10:07:05 AM
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OK, so after a gap of many years, I'm thinking of getting back into collecting Warmaster stuff. Allowing for the "minor" problem of GW pulling it all, I'm looking at doing a 2000+ point Brettonian army, using TB Line's Central European range. The figures I'm considering are:
TB4163 Command Group of the Teutonic Knight = Command figures for Knight units & Characters
TB4164 Teutoni Knight = Grail Knights
TB4165 European Heavy Knight = Knights
TB4166 Light cavalry with lance = Squires
TB4169 Light European infantry = Extra figures on Men-at-arms & character bases?
TB4170 Heavy European infantry = Men-at-arms
TB4178 Knights on foot = Command for foot units & extra figures on character bases?
TB4179 Armed peasants = Peasants
TB4180 Peasants with bow = Bowmen
I like the look of these figures and they aren't stupidly expensive, unlike GW's stuff! I reckon I can get an army for something like £70-£90 (plus postage, however much that would be, say £100 max?).
As a toe-in-the-water, I've ordered the character and hero on pegasus blisters from GW - their website says they are still available and I've got an email saying the order has been shipped. I guess the next few days will tell how true that is!
I need to totally re-equip, I've no brushes, glue or paint any more. I intend to do the characters, see how I feel about it all and if it appeals, buy a batch of stuff from TB.
The other armies I've got, (Empire, Orcs, Undead and Dwarves) are all over 2000 points, allowing for variation of army composition. So maybe I want 2500-ish points of Brettonians at the end of the day.
So a question for Brettonian players, what do you recommend I buy to get a decent 2000 point army, with a few hundred points of "spares" please?
Paints - what range do you guys recommend? Previously I used GW stuff, watering down as the stuff got thick in the pots! Is Vallejo's Game Colour range suitable for Warmaster scale?
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You will need some damsells and preferably one on a unicorn, but the character blister should fix that.
Also, remember the squires can shoot too, so some mounted archers would help to remember.
In general I would say aim at a good mix of cavalry (at around 60% of your force)
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Lex,
Thanks for the reply. When you say 60%, do you mean points or units, given that the BP for Brettonia is based on the number of Knight units?
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You'll need a couple of trebuchet! Where do you plan to source them from?
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The army list says only 1 trebuchet per army and at 150 points, you could get a unit of knights (increasing the BP) and peasants. Assuming peasants are of any use?
Edit: Hmm, with Knights always using initiative to charge, do you need fewer characters in a Brettonian army? If most of your units will just steam into combat, presumably you only need orders to get them into range? Or just stand until the enemy move into range. So a general, hero and sorceress should be enough for a 2000 point army? Or am I reading it wrong?
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I completely misread the rules - I thought you HAD to have trebuchets! Sorry. :-X
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The army list says only 1 trebuchet per army and at 150 points, you could get a unit of knights (increasing the BP) and peasants. Assuming peasants are of any use?
Edit: Hmm, with Knights always using initiative to charge, do you need fewer characters in a Brettonian army? If most of your units will just steam into combat, presumably you only need orders to get them into range? Or just stand until the enemy move into range. So a general, hero and sorceress should be enough for a 2000 point army? Or am I reading it wrong?
You will need (cheap) infantry and squires to make sure your knight initiative when YOU want them too........
For 2k General, Hero & Damsel could be OK... it kinda depends on the flexibility you want....
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Vallejo colours are great quality and have a wide range of colours. Vallejo also have the Game Colors line, which are brighter and have pigments more intense, they are good also.
I have heard that Coat D'arms is the same pigment that citadel and half price. It is more than a rumour, but do not have coat d'arms so I could not verify by myself. If you are used to old citadel colors, maybe its worth giving a try to CoatD'arms.
You have pegasus (AC31) and unicorns (AC32) in pendraken accesories range.
About the points of the army... I recommend go for 2000 + 2000 of TB line arby figures :) two armies of fantasy and the possibility of playing Hattin if you want to ;P
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Thanks for the replies guys. I was having a root around yesterday and found a part-used can of Chaos Black spray paint! No idea how much is left in it. If it works, I'll probably use it to undercoat the characters when/if they arrive. Bought a few brushes and some superglue yesterday as well, so things are starting to move, albeit slowly.
The Coat D'arms paint look good. There's a games shop near me I'll visit next weekend (SWMBO permitting!), to see what paint ranges they do.
Does anyone know of anywhere in the UK that stocks TB line figures, or are they just a mail order outfit?
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Which army rules will you be using? Are Pegasus Knight Units an option? I would consider taking them (good flexibility and give BP).
I always found it more fun to use a good mix of infantry and cavalry with bretonnians. Nice thing is you can boldly order the non-BP-units forward to soften up the enemy and send in the knights afterwards to (hopefully) finish him. A good idea is to look for a breakpoint higher than the number of knights you use in a brigade (so that your opponent does not finish you by just wiping out one brigade).
And yes, you need a good number of commanders despite initiative. You will prefer to send your knights to exactly the point you want to the right time, won't you? Nothing worse than a brigade of knights caught on the wrong foot (and chance of that is much higher if you need to spread out your commanders too much).
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Useful tips spritus, thanks ;D.
As Pegasus Knights are a bit on the pricy side, sadly I don't think I'll be getting a unit. £21.60 plus postage for 3 bases/figures is too much for me. For that price, I could get 4 packs of basic Knights and 3 Knight command groups (57 figures total) from TB Line. If I only put 3 knights per base, (in "lance" formation?), that'd be 6 units of Knights plus 3 spare for characters.
Infantry will mostly be TB's European Heavy Infantry, with some Peasants and using European Light Infantry to pad out the Heavy units and provide command figures for the peasants. How many I'll get I haven't yet decided.
The GW characters I'd ordered arrived yesterday - ouch, I'd forgotten how small these things are :o :o
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Useful tips spritus, thanks ;D.
As Pegasus Knights are a bit on the pricy side, sadly I don't think I'll be getting a unit. £21.60 plus postage for 3 bases/figures is too much for me. For that price, I could get 4 packs of basic Knights and 3 Knight command groups (57 figures total) from TB Line. If I only put 3 knights per base, (in "lance" formation?), that'd be 6 units of Knights plus 3 spare for characters.
Infantry will mostly be TB's European Heavy Infantry, with some Peasants and using European Light Infantry to pad out the Heavy units and provide command figures for the peasants. How many I'll get I haven't yet decided.
The GW characters I'd ordered arrived yesterday - ouch, I'd forgotten how small these things are :o :o
One useful trick I've heard about is to do a conversion with HE giant eagle wings mounted onto conventional knights.
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Some helpless maidens!
http://www.pendraken.co.uk/AC2-p5121/
And some wild unicorns!
http://www.pendraken.co.uk/AC31-p5150/
Shame that there's no picture of the maidens. =-/
Annnnd a trebuchet! Not sure what to do for crewmen, though:
I've read people saying that Eureka has some Pegasus Knights.
http://www.oldgloryuk.com/disp_item.php?c=343&oc=4162
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Eureka definitely do Pegasus knights (http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=4516.0)
Had it confirmed from them direct, currently you get a pack of 15 for $15AUD they're going to be officially released in 2-3 months, but you can order them now
I scratchbuilt me a trebuchet from matchsticks and GS, will sort a pic out soon, I'm planning on using the light inf and peasants and snipping a few weapons off for crewmen
Kallistra also do a trebuchet (http://kallistra.co.uk/images/products/1068/1341778060-HA06.jpg), which will probably be quite big and therefore fit the size of the bret one nicely
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http://www.oldgloryuk.com/disp_item.php?c=343&oc=4160
Just realised OG do crewmen as well - Western and Saracen flavours. No pictures but they're passable apparently.
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Still got all mine in packs and some units of peg knights, along with 3k of Araby.
Fell out with the game due to lack of opponents.
Now GW have killed off the range, I have to question if I will ever get these painted :'(
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Eureka definitely do Pegasus knights (http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=4516.0)
Had it confirmed from them direct, currently you get a pack of 15 for $15AUD they're going to be officially released in 2-3 months, but you can order them now
Do you, (or anyone else for that matter), know what other goodies Eureka are intending to release in the near-ish future please?
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I was informed that they are releasing ogres, some new high elves, and snakemen at the same time as the pegasus knights, I was told this on the 11th of June and the timescale was 'about 3 months'
this is from Nic Robson at eureka so should be genuine!
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Thanks for the "heads up"! With the Tridente and Old Glory figures, it looks like a viable Bret army is possible without breaking the bank.
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Bump for my question instead of making a new topic:
Anyone know any good female sorceress proxies at 10mm scale?
Looks like only Eureka have one mounted on a unicorn but that's meant for Wood Elves, with an Orion figure, wood hags and hounds with it. :-X
EDIT: Also, any chance anyone has a pic of the Old Glory trebuchet for scale? Everyone says it's MASSIVE even at 10mm scale and I'm worried it won't fit on a 60mm by 40mm base.
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Looks like only Eureka have one mounted on a unicorn but that's meant for Wood Elves, with an Orion figure, wood hags and hounds with it. :-X
I guess you could always use the hounds mixed in with knights and characters as hunting dogs (= filler). No idea how you'd work the hags and the Orion figure in though :-\
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Oh yeah the hounds are fab! Wish I could have a whole blister of them! The unicorns are fab, if I could have a dismounted female wizard that would work.
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Oh yeah the hounds are fab! Wish I could have a whole blister of them! The unicorns are fab, if I could have a dismounted female wizard that would work.
I have 1 (or maybe 2?) spare sorceresses on unicorns - I only wanted the hounds for my Albion army anyway. Send me a PM and we can probably sort something out.
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Just something I realised - does anyone make a 10mm Hippogriff for Bretonnians?
Just looking over the tournament list and realised it's a bit like a gryphon, should I just use an Empire General figure?
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Could convert one using a pegasus and giant eagle maybe?
Failing that, empire griffon rider would work fine
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Yeah looking at my gryphon in his pack now, I reckon he would do just fine for a hyppogryff stand in!
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Well that was a pleasant surprise when I got home tonight.
It was my birthday recently and I'd been considering a Kindle but decided against it in the end. My eldest was going to send me a voucher for some Kindle books but scrubbed that idea when I told him I wasn't getting one. He said he'd think of something else to send.
I'd mentioned in passing that I was going to get a Brettonian army. Tonight there was a padded envelope from him containing 1 pack each of the following:
http://www.pendraken.co.uk/EMM1-p2888/
http://www.pendraken.co.uk/ELM2-p2840/
http://www.pendraken.co.uk/ELM7-p2845/
http://www.pendraken.co.uk/ELM8-p2846/
So a unit each of knights, squires, bowmen and infantry I will probably mix in with http://www.pendraken.co.uk/ELM14-p2852/ for a bit of extra variety in peasant units.
I'd looked at Pendraken's website and wasn't too impressed with the figures in the photos but "in the flesh" they look pretty good and are very close to the same size as WM Empire figures. They'll do for me, plus they are a bargain at £4 a pack. Happy days :)
Now all I need is somewhere to get on with it all - the table in the back room is full of the wife and daughters crafting/dress-making junk, so I'll probably have to wait until September when she goes back to uni. :(
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Largely based on the above discussion and suggestions I have now added a blog post about Brettonian armies without GW miniatures:
http://www.athens-fantasy.gr/2013/07/brettonians-warmaster-with-non-gw-miniatures/
many thanks
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Don't forget that Pendraken do plain unicorns:
http://www.pendraken.co.uk/AC31-p5150/
And that Old Glory do a trebuchet (but it is biiiig):
http://www.oldgloryuk.com/disp_item.php?c=343&oc=4162
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Yeah, I think the Old Glory trebuchet would not fit on a warmaster base plus it cost 4 times the pendraken one (where you get 2 per pack).
Also the Pendraken Unicorns would need a female wizard rider or something to be useful. I wonder if they have something suitable.
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True, but I believe the Old Glory one might fit on 3 bases stuck together as is the norm for supersize units like the Grand War Altar.
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You are absolutely right:
4. Trebuchet. The model must be mounted onto a base 40mm
frontage and 60mm depth - note that this is equivalent to three
standard sized Warmaster bases glued together.
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The Kallistra trebuchet is a good size - and good value at 2 for £6 - and come with medieval crew useable for Bretonians.
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At last I've made a start! :) :)
Super-glued the hero on the pegasus together and undercoated him and the character pack in white.
Undercoated the Pendraken knights in black. Thank goodness for the photo on their website - these old eyes were struggling to pick out the detail. Thank goodness 2 for the wife's daylight lamp! I don't recall it being so difficult the last time I painted stuff this small!
http://www.pendraken.co.uk/EMM1-p2888/
I definitely need a bigger variety of primary colours. Looks like I'll be stopping off at the model shop on the way home tomorrow for some yellow and green as a minimum. At the moment I've only got red and blue and the bits of barding/shields I've painted so far, despite doing different areas in different colours, will look too uniform when put together as a unit. Definitely not very Brettonian. :(
Hmm, I'll need to order some more knights so I can "disperse" the red/blue ones I've done so far. If I get another 3 packs, that'll be enough for a total of 5 units. When do I get paid next?!
I've also found some old GW paint pots in the loft. Most sound solid but one or two still slosh when shaken - result! If I can get the dry ones open I'll try adding some water to try to get it usable again - does anyone know if this will work, or would I be wasting my time?
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Good this is working!
Brets mount on your steads and prepare to fight :)
I'm afraid this trick is not going to resurrect your paint, because when vinylic paints polymerize it became a kind of plastic not soluble in water.
I think, good light, good brushes and moderate quality paints are essential to paint. (unfortunatly when I say good I mean expensive)
go on!
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Ah well, I'll throw the solid ones away :(
Thanks for the advice.
I tend not to do "expensive". Yorkshireman you see, it's in my genes ;)
"Adequate" will do for me!
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Yeah sorry the solid ones are a dead loss. But if you put the lids on tight - I have had ones 15 years old still be perfectly useable, in better condition even than newer ones I got. =-P
If you long for the old style of pot from the 90s, Cote d'Arms were the original GW supplier:
http://www.coatdarms.com/online_shop/index.php?cPath=21
And if you want to save money you could use Vallejo / Army Painter paints with the dripper nozzles. You could use a wet palette using a cleaned plastic takeaway tub, wet kitchen roll and greaseproof paper in it. This way you just squeeze out the amount of paint you want into the palette and it won't dry out if you need to leave it.
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Whew, busy weekend. Apart from flocking the bases (no PVA glue :(, must get some on my way home one evening), I've painted 4 units of Peasants and 2 units of Bowmen. I've previously painted a unit each of Knights, Bowmen and Squires plus the Hero on Pegasus and the Characters blister.
Must admit to not enjoying painting the Knights, which is a bit of a problem with a Brettonian army! I found doing lots of different colour schemes to make up a unit a pain. As I'm going to have 10 units of Knights, I'll try painting them in batches of the same colour scheme but different layouts, in the hope it speeds things up a bit. Then, when all are painted, mix the figures up to form the other 9 units. Fingers crossed!
I think I'll paint the remaining unit of Bowmen, 3 units of Squires and 4 Men-at-arms first and then see if I can inspire myself to tackle the Knights. I hate having an unpainted lead mountain!
For the non-knight units I'm going for a single unit each of Peasants, Bowmen, Men-at-arms and Squires, each with a red, blue, green or yellow theme, 16 units in total.
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Painting every knight different with differents colours could be really nice, but I found particualry useful to paint the units with the same pattern of colours and different to other units to recognize them quickly during the game... you know when the combat starts sometimes is hard to know which stand belong to each unit.
I paint 8 units of goblins very similar... and now I regreat done that.
A possibility is paint the banner of the lances with the same colour from the unit and go for the knight and the horse bard as unique knight colour scheme.
Just a though...
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I'd definitely recommend vallejo paints - the quality is fantastic and they're definitely good value. Loads of discounts if you buy in bulk on eBay too...
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Painting every knight different with differents colours could be really nice, but I found particualry useful to paint the units with the same pattern of colours and different to other units to recognize them quickly during the game... you know when the combat starts sometimes is hard to know which stand belong to each unit.
I paint 8 units of goblins very similar... and now I regreat done that.
A possibility is paint the banner of the lances with the same colour from the unit and go for the knight and the horse bard as unique knight colour scheme.
Just a though...
10 units of knights is 120 figures. The Pendraken Knights don't have banners, so each unit will get one standard bearer. I'm not doing 120 separate banners :o ;D.
I've got Bricscad on my laptop. I've just knocked up some 10 x 10mm banners with a simple fleur de lys on. A coloured f-d-l on a white field with a white f-d-l on a coloured field option. I'll print them off tomorrow and see how they look - I was never very good at hand painting flags! If they work OK, I'll use them for the Men-at-arms and Squire units and do some more complicated ones for the Knights.
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I was refering to the "handkerchief" or little banner hanging on the tip of the lance.
http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=4665.0
Printable banners are great!
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Even so, 120 of any kind of flag/banner is a lot to do! :'(
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Finished! Did the last units of Knights last night.
The army comprises:
1 General
4 Heroes (inc. 1 on a Pegasus)
1 Enchantress on Unicorn
1 Grail Knights
9 Knights
5 Squires
4 Men-at-arms
4 Bowmen
4 Peasants
All from Pendraken (except the General, 2 Heroes and the Enchantress, which are Games Workshop). Cost £114. The Games Workshop characters were about £15 of the total, glad GW have pulled the range, I'm forced to buy from other manufacturers which are happily much cheaper! Ouch, just realised I'll have painted all that lot in a bit less than a month! I'll need to get something to store them in now.
Plus about £100 for paint, brushes, glue, basing sand, craft knives and bases! Damn but the price of that stuff soon tots up! Although the paint and bases will now take me onto the Halfings I've bought (need more!).
If my camera is capable of taking photos of such small figures, I'll see if I can work out how to post some pictures in a day or two.
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Great! I hope you can take some nice pictures of them!
I've also been thinking to get some Pendraken minis for a Bret army, maybe yours will sway me!
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Not sure how well these are going to look...
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Great! I hope you can take some nice pictures of them!
I've also been thinking to get some Pendraken minis for a Bret army, maybe yours will sway me!
I hope so! The only slight downer is the Knights look pretty much the same but I think there must be a couple of slightly different moulds as I can see some variations. If you mix the colouring up as I've done, it tends to hide/mask the "sameness" a little. I think the overall effect of the whole army together looks OK.
The other figures (Squires and various Infantry) are perfectly fine. On average I painted one unit per day, although at weekends I was doing a couple a day, less during the week.
Overall I'm happy with the army, a good reintroduction to 10mm painting. Wargaming standard painting, not Collection standard I guess. Good enough for me :)
I'd recommend Pendraken, decent sculpts and not expensive. A few of the bases needed a minimum of filing down to make the figures stand level, nothing out of the ordinary and just a few seconds work for each one.
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well done for the pics and for how quickly you got that ready for battle!
I wish I was as productive!!!
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That looks great! My compliments. The colours really work to convey the image of a Brettonian army. Really nice.
I used to have an Empire army with Pendraken minis, I was quite happy with them as well.
Hopefully you can do battle with them soon! :D
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Really nice. Congratulations for finish a project. You have a great rate of painting. Warmaster is about battle with masses of minis and you did in a month!
great job
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Everything is nice but the bases... Green is too... Greeny :)
Add some mud, grass, rocks, etc. At least a quick drybrush !
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Great army! Congrats :)
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Lovely- nice, bright colours. Well done.
I agree with Marell though, I'd break up the green on those bases with some tufts and some patches of dry brushing of another colour (bleached bone/Khaki?).
Dave
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Basing, yes I've still got that to finish off. I've got a little flock left from years ago but need some PVA glue and the other stuff mentioned above. Something to tackle next week when I've been paid!
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wow! that was fast!