Specialist Arms Forum
Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: horizon on September 08, 2013, 05:49:24 AM
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Blind Horizon's vessel is clearly to big to be a mere frigate! We are talking a vessel that is from tip to end 1mm longer then the FW version. Where the FW one has most mass at the back, blind's vessel is more balanced between prow and back.
I think they are identical.
So he build a ship that in my opinion should get stats that are equivalent to a strike cruiser. But that is something for general discussion.
He offers three variants: Battery, Lance Deck and Launch bay.
So, before I post mine ideas what would people like to see? Where do they want to see such a vessel fit?
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:o
Why are strike cruisers so tiny? :o :o
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I'm thinking in a Rapid Strike vessel...between a Dauntless and a Strike Cruiser... ;)
Fast, agile and heavy armed:
25-30 cm (+1d6 to AAF), turn 90 , armor 5+, 1 shield, 2 turrets.
Main weapon:
Heavy lance version: 30 cm. str. 2-3
Possibly of 3 str. Bombardment cannon L/R/F
Torp. Version: str. 3-4, normal and boarding
Launch Version: 1 launch bay for each side, thunderhawks
Secondary armament:
Weapon batteries between 3-6 str. port & starboard
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Now i wish i played some BFG before so i could join in this awesome conversation!
Blind-
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Hey,
Cneo, Blind depicted them as pre-heresy. From that pov I would not include T-Hawks and bombardment cannons.
The prow only features one turret, no torp holes (think how the model is made not that someone can make his own holes ;) ).
All roud armour 5+ is good. 25cm speed, 90* turns. 2 turrets, 1shield
4 or 6 hits. Latter seems better.
Prow: str1 lance. @ 45cm?
Launch bays: str1, regular Imperial Navy with a-boats included (pre-heresy -> chaos vessels).
Old tech:
str 6batteries @ 45cm.
str2 lances @30cm.
hmm
/
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I'm not sure about the Bombardment cannon, but Thunderhawks were around before the Heresy. In the later years of the Crusade they were slowly starting to replace the Stormbirds.
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maybe say storm birds instead of thunderhawks?
dorsal lance Str 2 @ 30cm
6 hits
1 sheild
5+ armour
90* turn
2 turrets
str 6 batteries @45cm
str 2 lances @40 cm (makes dorsal lance into str 1 @30cm?) or str 2 @ 30cm (no affect on dorsal)
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Weapon systems only in steps of 15cm, I guess 40cm is a typo, right?
Stormbirds: what do they do in BFG?
But so you add the two turrets on top to 2 lances dorsal @30cm LFR.
Good good.
Then 2 lances per side or 6 batteries.
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I guess ruleswise just the same as thunderhawk, but fewer of them? Maybe they are less capable of delivering a punch (don't know their weapons layout), but can deliver a lot more Space Marines.
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My first thoughts were about the old Frigates in 41 millenia universe. The few chapters which still have a few of them, guarded like chapter relics.
IMO SM chapters would have updated their weapon systems during these 10000 years.
So, Space Marines don't use Stormbirds nowadays, they use T-hawks instead, and bombardment cannons.
I agree Horizon about the torps, the model doesn't have it. Therefore, Frigates would be the only pure gunships of the actual SM navies:
4 hits (2 shields) or 6 hits (one shield), 25-30 cm (+1d6 to AAF), turn 90 , armor 5+, 2 turrets.
Main weaponry, always for port & stardoard sides:
Heavy lance version: 45 cm. str. 2 (L/F & R/F, fire arcs like Eldar Void Stalker)
Possibly of 3 str. 30 cm. Bombardment cannon (L/F & R/F, fire arcs like Eldar Void Stalker)
Launch Version: 1 launch bay for each side, thunderhawks
Weapon batteries: 6 str. 30cm.
;)
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Stormbirds: what do they do in BFG?
Given the considerably greater capacity, each one counts as multiple Thunderhawks (2, 3, 4...?)?
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I wouldnt do lances, a bombardment cannon version sounds good though.
Actually you could do two stat lines for each one:
Pre Heresy:
1 30cm lance L/F/R prow
2 30cm lances L/R
2 launch/ side standard fighters/ bombers/ assault boats
4 45 cm weapons batteries
(Chaos fleets only/ maybe some future Heresy era fleet list?)
Post Heresy:
3 30cm Bombardment cannons L/F/R Prow.
4 30cm Bombardment cannons L/R
1 launch/ side Thunderhawks
6 30cm weapons batteries
(Current Space marine lists)
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The pre-heresy one: so a CL with 4 bays... uh oh... all those discussions.... ditch the bomber option and it can be fine. Rare vessel. Restrictions needed?
4wb@45cm is better then the 6wb @ 45cm is the other is 2l@30cm. Agreed.
I'd like to add them as relics to my Rogue Trader fleet. :)
On the other hand: the set of ship blindhorizon offers could also be used as alternative Voss Light Cruisers. Aka different forgeworld used same pattern but different prows. Where speed is added on the cost of prow torpedoes.
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In a Chaos fleet the 4 bay light cruiser wouldnt be as offensive as in an IN fleet but ya...
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This conversation is awesome, i'm going to look at the pdf of the rules i have now so i can better understand what you guys are talking about!
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That's a good thing to do. The good thing is we all have the same basic view on the ship. Weapon layout is also almost identical.
So:
Cruiser
6 hits
5+ armour
1 shield
2 turrets
25cm speed
90* turns
Prow (or dorsal) strength 1 lance battery @ 30cm LFR
broadside weaponry:
- Weapon batteries strength 4 per side @ 45cm
- Lance batteries strength 2 per side @ 30cm
- Launch bays strength 1 per side: stormbirds*
Stormbirds: as T-Hawks but resilient save on a 6+?
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i was thinking stormbirds if you're playing a heresy era game (with the amount of heresy era ships avalible now this is possible)
otherwise thunderhawks
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Perhaps one may pick (if he does not want it to be a Marine vessel):
Launch Bays with T-Hawks, str1.
Launch Bays with fighters/assault boats, str2.
Did T-hawks exist pre heresy? I find this weird because Chaos does not have T-Hawks. So if this pre-heresy ship from blindhorizon is looked at from that pov one may argue that its bays are not optimized/build to carry Thunderhawks at all. So I am still not convinced on T-Hawks for this ship.
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When i created the vessel i invisioned something space marinish, but also that it was a rarer ship post heresy that can be found in any fleets. I had written some fluff for it for those that are interested.
The Typhoon class strike frigate comes in three variants, annihilator, dominator, and subduer. The annihilator class is considered very powerful for a vessel it's size as it is one of the smallest ships to mount lance turrets on it's sides. The dominator use's it's speed to move in on target ship, and then fire's massed broadside's and moves quickly out of range before the target can react completely and bring their own guns to bare. While the most underestimated variant the subduer is one of the most versatile, carrying fifteen squadrons of fury void fighters, and fifteen squadrons of starhawk void bombers, the subduer can project it's lethal force in many places at once. The Typhoon's have seen service in every segmentum and every battlefleet, they even took part in the siege of holy Terra during the great heresy. Few forge worlds have the STC information necessary to manufacture this ancient ship design, it's rare to see more then a squadron of these ships together at any one time. More often they are broken into single ships used to quell small rebellions in backwater solar systems. Most notable engagements would be two annihilator class Typhoons, the Fury of light, and the Blessed hammer surprising the chaos cruiser Whispers of Intent. The battle lasted two hours, surprise was complete and the Whisper of Intent was completely gutted and only one of it's three escort ships escaping. The Blessed hammer had suffered major damage but was successfully repaired after six months in dry dock.
Blind-
P.S. I'm with whatever you guys the experts come up with, I'm humbled to even have people discussing proper stats for a ship i created o.O
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Perhaps one may pick (if he does not want it to be a Marine vessel):
Launch Bays with T-Hawks, str1.
Launch Bays with fighters/assault boats, str2.
Did T-hawks exist pre heresy? I find this weird because Chaos does not have T-Hawks. So if this pre-heresy ship from blindhorizon is looked at from that pov one may argue that its bays are not optimized/build to carry Thunderhawks at all. So I am still not convinced on T-Hawks for this ship.
But Space Marine chapters have had thousands of years to upgrade the launch bays for the T-Hawks, and they're smaller than the S-Birds...so I think is quite fluffy to equip the ship with them. ::)
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Well,, yeah, that could happen.
Oh, another thing that might bug: one variant has lances. Always a heated debate but a firm stance is that space marines should not have lances on capital ships.
We could say the lance variant is bombardment variant (when used in a Marine fleet?)
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well if it dates from before the heresy it could still have its lances
maybe it could be an upgrade option for X number of ships
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After the heresy all got re-organized. Space Marines were allowed fleets/ships that would never be a rival to the Imperial Navy in fleet engagements. Marines would be dedicated to Planetary Asauly. A lance was deemed an anti-ship weapon thus not allowed for Marines. The Nova escort is under scrutiny by the Inquisition.
So, if these ships had lances they would not be allocated to the Marine Chapters.
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Well,, yeah, that could happen.
Oh, another thing that might bug: one variant has lances. Always a heated debate but a firm stance is that space marines should not have lances on capital ships.
We could say the lance variant is bombardment variant (when used in a Marine fleet?)
You're right, that's possible. But I like chapters that challenge the Imperial authority and made their own way far from the harshness Codex Astartes like Space Wolves (they have a captured Mars BC 8) ) or Black Templars.
The Nova, despite the Inquisition, is an example of how lances could have an important slot in a space marine fleet. So I'd maintain the lances for main version and Thunderhawks for the launch bays one.
:P