Specialist Arms Forum
Specialist Games General Discussion => Modeling & painting => Warmonger Miniatures => Topic started by: Dave on May 13, 2014, 01:48:42 PM
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Here's a montage of shots for you guys, straight from Bob Naismith:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tl7XtmTpV-o/U3ITWl1LxZI/AAAAAAAAQm0/b_JbPvmqmCU/s640/unnamed.jpg) (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tl7XtmTpV-o/U3ITWl1LxZI/AAAAAAAAQm0/b_JbPvmqmCU/s1600/unnamed.jpg)
I've asked for more feathers in the hats, as well as for each of them to be armed with a Katzbalger (their signature short sword).
Also, the standard is WiP I believe. I've asked that the banner be made bigger (inline with WM Halberdiers) and flowing behind him (easier for banner art and fitting him on a base).
A question to you guys, would you prefer:
1) The drummer and standard bearer on a single two man strip?
2) Split them up so each with a standard guy with sword?
Your thoughts?
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those are looking excellent! really impressed with them
on the musician+standard front, I have no strong feelings either way, I think both options have their advantages and shortcomings, as long as they're snippable (?) then I don't think it's an issue either way
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Ya, the plan is to have them close enough to fit on a 6x18mm two-man strip, but still be able to be separated. I'm hoping that'll work when casting.
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I love em, are they "rankable" and can you fit two lines of say 5 models on one 40mm by 20mm base?
Musicians: Doesn't matter as long as they are "snippable."
Top banana
Dave
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There will be 7, two-man strips (like archers/crossbowmen/skirmishers) that are 6x18mm. You should be able to fit 5 of them, no problem, on a 20x40mm.
Now that I think of it, I'm going to ask him to make sure that they're arranged so them don't get much wider than 22mm. Otherwise, they get difficult to rank up in column.
How much would you guys pay for a unit of 15 (14 rank, 1 command) two-man strips?
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Musician/Standard Bearer? On the same strip, then you can potentially reuse them if you make other infantry types? Hint, hint ;D.
Cost per unit? Hmmm.
Commercially you can pick up a newly cast infantry unit for £5-£6 or so. Plus P+P. But the big boys have got volume sales, you haven't (yet? ;) ). I tend to make reasonable sized purchases - £20-£40, so the postage becomes insignificant. I do feel a little uncomfortable if I'm only spending a few pounds and getting charged the same amount for postage as I would for a larger purchase though - but maybe that's just me.
You've got to source padded envelopes (50p each?) and the postage is variable. Plus a little for your time and effort actually going to the post office obviously. £2 minimum P+P?
You're making something no one else does, so people should be prepared to pay a slight premium, without feeling ripped off. I'd guess most people would only buy a small number of these units, so postage might be a factor for some people.
Somewhere in the region of £8-£10/unit including postage to the UK? Maybe £12 worldwide? If you could quote the postage for 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. units, people may take the plunge and buy more units up front. If you can do it for less than that, great - I'm a Yorkshireman, what else would you expect?
Could you take, say, up to 4 units to the Post Office and ask them how much it would be to post different numbers to the UK/Europe/Worldwide, then you can give more tailored prices and maybe generate more sales. "I'm being charged £10 for a single unit but 4 units works out at £9 each, ah to heck with it, I'll buy 4", for example. Obviously visit the post office at a quiet time!
Maybe get "a lot" (whatever that means) cast up and sell them on e-bay? A far bigger audience than this website.
If all that waffle makes sense?!
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Oh my goodness the quality is better than I expected! Really lovely stuff and I love the bearer and the drummer!
I don't know, £10 a unit? Or is that too little considering the outlay? With postage on top of that.
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Thanks for the ideas guys.
I was planning on taking some envelopes to the PO and getting prices for 2/4/8/12/16 units to the US/UK/AUS. That should cover most of my bases.
Listing them on eBay was another thing I was toying with. Although there you run in to the 10% eBay fee on top of anything PayPal hits you with. Still, it be good advertising at least.
My intention with these is to take the proceeds and put it towards sculpting another unit. Not looking to make heaps of money, but breaking even and paying for another unit would be nice. Given that those ranges are doable. Here's another question though. Will you buy more if they're cheaper?
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They look good. Better than good!
The swords are perhaps a touch big, bit it may the angle of the photos.
I could be in for 2 to 4 packs. Can't see that I would want / need more than that.
Price wise you have from about £4.50 to £6 from most of the main commercial producers. For limited editions then you could go a bit higher.
I would list on eBay because it is good marketing, even if you don't want this as your main distribution.
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First of all, congrat that looks pretty awesome
Musician + stand bearer in the same strip (my opinion)
I would like to pay 5-7 pounds per unit.
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Would I buy more if they were cheaper?
They are a specialist kind of unit. I wouldn't expect many armies, fantasy or otherwise, would have lots of units of them. Having seen the sculpts and allowing that my Empire army is just about complete, I'd probably buy 2. Might consider getting a third and using 6 or so to a base to make Empire Skirmishers? The spare Standard Bearer, Drummer and another figure then being used for a character stand.
So, for me, high-ish cost wouldn't be too big a factor as I wouldn't be buying brigades of them.
I assume you won't be supplying bases? I'd be getting mine from Renedra. 3 40x20mm bases would run to about 40p, so call it 45p added to the unit price if you supply them as an optional extra. It might encourage a few more sales?
Edit:
It looks like there are 11 basic troopers, as well as 3 command figures? I wonder if you changed half of the troopers to a different type (crossbowmen, skirmishers, handgunners), you could have two unit types available. Sales increase automatically, even though figure variety drops. Easier to break even. Just a thought.
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Great figures. Interested in them definetively. :)
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In the U.S., I would pay $8-10 and ask for 4.
Adrian
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The minis are just sweet!!!
I have no preference as to the layout of the strips but I like the idea that each could be snippable into different 'rank configurations'.
Price - whatever they cost + some extra for your efforts so that you can create new projects.
I, personally, will be buying enough for 4 full warmaster units. Sell to us first on here, Specialist Games and then go to ebay and make a bigger profit!!
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If I could justify more warmaster armies, I'd probably buy around 4 packs worth, I'd like to pay around £7/8 per pack, but as it's supporting more development, I'd be willing to pay £11/12
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Very interested in these! I'd get 2\4 packs depending on the price, and shipping cost...
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So I went back to Bob, he's finishing them up. Here's a list of changes:
1) Putting parierhaken (parrying hooks) on a few of the swords (at the request of Lex).
2) Adding a few more hat feathers.
3) Giving each guy a katzbalger.
The sword width/size will stay as they are for casting purposes and durability on the table-top.
The standard bearer and drummer will by on a single strip, and there will be six strips with the swordsmen on them. These will be 6x18x1mm and there will be a bit of texture on top. You should be able to snip them apart so each figure is separate. Also, they'll be arranged so getting stands into base contact isn't a problem (lessoned learned from High Elf Archers...).
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Some other topics for discussion.
Timeframe
The earliest the mold guy can get to them will be August. That means I likely won't have them until the end of August and casting won't begin until September. So I think October will be when these guys will begin to show up on people's doorsteps.
Kickstarter
To cover the costs of molding and casting (and get another unit out of this as there'll be room on the master mold) here's what I'm thinking.
A project with a goal of $3000 that will run the month of June.
If successful, I'll have enough money to get pikemen sculpted, molded and cast along with the swordsmen.
For backer levels, you commit to buy 2/4/8/12/16 units. The units can be any combination of swordsmen or pikemen, your choice.
The only add-on I can think of is bases (currently checking with Renedra for a volume discount).
For stretch goals (5000, 7000, etc) another unit gets added to the pool you can choose from: Arquebusiers, Crossbowmen, Light missile Cav, Heavy Cav, Light Cannon, Characters. I doubt we'll see any of these this time around but we can dream.
If it's successful, I'll have the cash on hand to pay Bob to sculpt the pikemen in July and still get everything to the mold guy in August.
If it isn't successful, you guys get swordsmen (likely more expensive so I don't take a complete bath) and the pikemen are a longer time in coming.
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And these are units designed with the Dogs of War list in mind, aren't they? I'd love to see Galloper Guns - if the other units are of this quality then that would be amazing and these would do as really capable Empire proxies.
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Yep, the Light Cannon would be horse mobile.
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Is there any chance that the crossbows would be pavise ones in the Tilean style? =-D
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Your thoughts?
*throws money at the screen*
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I'm sticking with Landsknecht for now stormwind, no Italians. As to the pavise, I know Pendraken already makes them. I don't think I'd be offering anything truly unique/groundbreaking by doing some more of those.
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Sounds good to me Dave. You certainly need to do something that no one else does. You'll get more sales that way, especially if you're more expensive than existing manufacturers.
Good luck with this and I'll be watching with interest!
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That's alright, I'll just imagine they're all Border Princes armies, then. =D
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Did a little guesstimating on prices. What are people's thoughts on these for backer levels (all prices in USD):
2 Packs - $25 ($12.50 per pack)
4 Packs - $45 ($11.25 per pack)
8 Packs - $85 ($10.63 per pack)
12 Packs - $120 ($10 per pack)
16 Packs - $150 ($9.38 per pack)
Extra packs would be at the "per pack" price.
Shipping:
These are guesstimates at this point. I was liberal with the weights, so hopefully they won't go up. These would be added to the backer levels above (eg, there would be a "2 Packs (US)" @ $28, and a "2 Packs (International)" @ $38):
US:
2 Packs - $3
4 Packs - $4
8-X Packs - $6 (small flat rate box becomes cheapest option at this point)
X+ Packs - ?
International:
2 Packs - $13
4 Packs - $15
8 Packs - $21
12-X Packs - $25 (small flat rate box becomes cheapest option at this point)
X+ Packs - ?
There's obviously an upper limit of unit's that'll fit in a small flat-rate box, but I would think it could handle the vast majority of orders. Unless of course every single WM player in a country goes in on one order...
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I would go with this one, 12 Packs - $120 ($10 per pack). With 8 being Pikemen and 4 being Swordsmen.
adrian
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2 packs to the UK $38 = £22.60 (-ish) = £11.30/pack
So 3 packs would be $38 + $12.50 = $50.50 = £30 = £10/pack
Very expensive but for a new starter that is offering something unique that's not too unreasonable a price. For that money, I'd expect bases to be included. If you could trim, say, 5% off it wouldn't hurt so much?
The pricing only becomes competitive at the 12/16 pack point. So those customers would tend to be folks starting an army from scratch or looking to greatly expand an existing army. Shame my Dogs of War and Empire are just about complete, although I'd go for 2 packs of Swordsmen to support this worthy effort.
If you were going fully commercial, I think you'd have to trim those prices quite a bit to survive.
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If you were going fully commercial, I think you'd have to trim those prices quite a bit to survive.
In the UK maybe. But not for doing business in the Union.
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True. It's the postage that's going to reduce sales overseas, mores the pity :(
Still, hopefully you'll still generate enough interest for it to be a success - I certainly hope so!
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Well he is doing a kickstarter. With the aim that it leads to more miniatures. Ultimately, you might come to a point where you feel ordering enough packs justifies the cost.
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The pricing is still very competitive compared to the current situation on Ebay. I'll be in for two units. :)
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True. It's the postage that's going to reduce sales overseas, mores the pity :(
Still, hopefully you'll still generate enough interest for it to be a success - I certainly hope so!
I'd be willing to combine orders for people and refund the difference in shipping.
In any case, I'm going to try to confirm the prices this coming week to make sure they're accurate.
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Here's a new shot of the Zweihänders, all based up. I've asked Bob to remove some of the flag after the raised sword, and to pull the command strip a bit forward to help with ranking. He's also defining the perry hooks a little more.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WzkSqStLqEo/U3tnxDVVzlI/AAAAAAAAQoY/cpZNuR3ixv4/s640/greatswords%252020052014.jpg) (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WzkSqStLqEo/U3tnxDVVzlI/AAAAAAAAQoY/cpZNuR3ixv4/s2560/greatswords%252020052014.jpg)
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They look even more awesome in those photos!!
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Oh my, those are really good!
I guess the right hand pair in the third photo on the top row could be snipped apart to allow the command pair to face forwards with the two snipped figures placed side by side in the rank behind them? I can't see any other pairs that look as though they could be easily cut apart?
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They should all be able to be clipped apart andys.
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*Throws money at the screen*
Those look even better based up!
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And another shot of the trimmed banner:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6iDcHnrIel0/U3ybttLuCfI/AAAAAAAAQoo/iAMRtAZxRyk/s800/unnamed.jpg)
I'm planning on starting the Kickstarter June 1.
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Sounds really exciting, man.
If we can get this ball rolling - not everyone will want all the units - but the momentum could lead to some really good gaps being filled.
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The KS is pending approval at the moment. I also bought a domain:
http://www.warmonger-miniatures.com/
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Excellent news! ;)
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Oh wow this is exciting!
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The KS is pending approval at the moment. I also bought a domain:
http://www.warmonger-miniatures.com/
Nice going Dave !
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The KS is pending approval at the moment. I also bought a domain:
http://www.warmonger-miniatures.com/
Backed!
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Wow, I might be wanting at least four units, haha! 8)
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GOAL!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Congratulations Dave
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You did it guys. Now we battle for the Pikemen.
(http://aetherbunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/rejoicing.gif)
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Great news! :) :) :) :)
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How many Swordsmen should I have in a 2000 point DOW army?
How many skirmisher stands does a 3000 point Empire army usually have?
No particular reason for asking... *innocent whistle*
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I was planning on 4 Swordsmen for the DoW. Never played Empire, but I'm betting 6-8 for a 3k.
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congrat Dave!
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I note that they have made an appearance on ebay already....
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Free advertising. ;)
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One thing that's puzzling me slightly - $2k for the first goal, then $2.5k for each subsequent one. Why not $2k for each one? Is that something Kickstarter asked for?
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I was able to offset the first goal with some wheeling and dealing I did this spring involving a rather large lot of 40k.
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Nice one ;D
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This is outstanding! I just backed it for 8 units.
You really need to promote this over The Miniatures Page, and any other websites that are likely to have an audience. I posted a thread on TMP, but if other folks can help post, particularly if the stretch goal is met, and as the end of the Kickstarter approaches, hopefully we can reel in more backers.
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=349189&page=1
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There's two threads on TMP, one in Fantasy and Renaissance forums and another on the Crowdfunding forum. The response has been lukewarm over there, none of the backers have come from directly from the links in TMP posts according to the project dashboard.
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You have to keep starting new threads on TMP. A lot of users there only view new threads as they appear on the front page. Even if the response rate is very low, there are so many users on that site it is worth a few posts.
Have you posted these on the Yahoo group yet? It is pretty dormant, but it might be a way to reach some folks.
Is there a central forum for Field of Glory Renaissance players? They might be interested in this.
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Also, and I should have thought of this before, why not submit a news item to TMP? That will get a lot more visibility than a a mere thread. Just be sure to do it several days in advance if the close of the kickstarter, because there is always a lag between when the stories are sent in, and when they get posted.
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I tried, TMP doesn't accept news any longer from non-advertisers:
http://theminiaturespage.com/faq/news.mv
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Great job Dave,
I'm in for 8-12 in a few days time :0)
I think I need two sworded skirmishers, pike and shooters more than the
Swordsmen, esp as I missed Wm before it was discontinued!
If we don't make it to pike, when will you likely start a new kick starter
For it? Need halibardiers etc too...
I'll post up links on warseer and taccoms soon :0)
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There's already threads on TC and WS, but more publicity wouldn't hurt.
We'll see how the first KS works out. They take 10% in fees, I'm curious to find out what that really nets you in terms of advertising though. Only two of my backers were direct from KS.
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A couple of hidden benefit of using KS may be:
1) Backers will see a KS as more 'trust worthy' than directly backing an individual, see even if the KS hasn't brought in a lot of new people, it probably has allowed people who have seen the figures on forums to be more likely to pledge for them.
2) You will get the promised money - Pendraken did a self-organised set of funding for their recent Mongols, and while they got a good amount promised - they had a high (40% IIRC) of backers who didn't follow through their pledge with actual payment, which made the whole thing rather less successful financially.
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You also got a mention on "Out of the Box" at BoLS, because you ran a KS
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1) Backers will see a KS as more 'trust worthy' than directly backing an individual, see even if the KS hasn't brought in a lot of new people, it probably has allowed people who have seen the figures on forums to be more likely to pledge for them.
I don't know if I buy in to the whole "trust worthy" thing. I haven't been burned on KS but apparently others have. There's a guy over on my recent TGN post saying that that's why I need more "hand holding" updates, which I've avoided because I personally loathe updates that say absolutely nothing has changed.
I can see your second point about getting the money though, the closest thing I can come with with that mimics the Kickstarter model would be a "the more you buy, the more you save" sale to help fund a new unit, and when that new unit is available you would get it shipped to you (free) for the sale price. That would mean I'm affectively absorbing the second shipping cost, which may or may not be cheaper than the 10% fees.
In any case, it's been a learning experience. If I do another one I don't think I'll be announcing any stretch goals ahead of time, if only to see if it reduces the number of cancellations/pledge reductions.