Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Experimental Rules Feedback => Topic started by: CrankyDragon on August 21, 2014, 07:41:53 PM
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I feel that a lack of artillery options puts one at a distinct disadvantage.
Has anyone tried playing Vampire Counts with artillery such as a Skull Chucker or Bone Thrower or something else?
Does anyone feel Vampire Counts are not at a disadvantage for not having any artillery?
What tactics should I be using to compensate for this? Just throw a bunch of bats at the enemy artillery?
Thanks for any help
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The VCs do pretty well around here with no shooting to speak of. CaptPiett takes them regularly.
The Chicago group also has a VC player with an army they despise. Something like this:
http://wm-selector.appspot.com/army_selector.html?list=vampirecounts&label=&print=&0=8&1=8&3=8&6=8&7=2&8=1&9=3&10=2
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Ah, I see. So power through overwhelming numbers? Just march them right up and say hi. Ill try that.
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I like terror so my VC army will eventually look like this,
120 - 4 Skeletons
140 - 4 Zombies
110 - 2 Ghouls
120 - 2 Grave Guard
180 - 2 Ethereal Host
440 - 4 Black Knights
120 - 3 Dire Wolves
130 - 2 Fell Bats
150 - 1 Vampire Lord
400 - 3 Vampire
- 1 Winged Nightmare (80)
- 2 Black Coach (80)
90 - 2 Necromancer
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2000 - 23/12
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But lets be honest if you are going horde, go this route
1170 - 39 Skeletons
140 - 4 Zombies
130 - 2 Fell Bats
150 - 1 Vampire Lord
320 - 4 Vampire
90 - 2 Necromancer
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2000 - 45/23
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This horde approach may have a few drawbacks
1) Buying 100+ stands of skellies
2) Painting them (though at least skellies are fairly easy to paint)
3) Carrying them
4) putting them on the table
5) commanding them with so few characters and no initiative.
But don't let any of that stop you ;)
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There I was telling my friend Warmaster was a game where you can't beard up the lists! =-P
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I'm in heavy mid VC 'horde building mode' and have 12 units of skeleton spearmen, 24 units of zombies, 12 graveguard and 12 ghouls to make up the infantry.
In the last 6 months the Zombies and skeletons have all been done (just basing to do) and ghouls about one third done so far..... Puff pant wheeze.....
It's the painting of them that's the beggar!
(Not to mention the expense but most of these were bought back in the day for 'reasonable' prices)
Dave
(Nagash rising is a nice timing for me to be spurred on!)
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The VCs do pretty well around here with no shooting to speak of. CaptPiett takes them regularly.
The Chicago group also has a VC player with an army they despise. Something like this:
http://wm-selector.appspot.com/army_selector.html?list=vampirecounts&label=&print=&0=8&1=8&3=8&6=8&7=2&8=1&9=3&10=2
I played my first game with vampire counts yesterday. I always liked the idea of having this massive undead horde. Have an unpainted one for WFB but since we never play that anymore I was thinking about getting a WM version.
Stopping the opponent using large infantry blocks was a piece of cake and rushing onto 2 objectives and holding them with some brigades was also ok. But for the actual hitting power I needed cavalry though.
I am probably missing some creative ideas here but how do you guys take on cavalry brigades of 2 units deep with a horde? Or a brigade of 2 giants? Or do you consistently throw in vampires for that additional hitting power?
Thanks for the advice,
Jo
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I'm not sure I want to face an enemy that outnumbers me 3:1
:-O
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I am probably missing some creative ideas here but how do you guys take on cavalry brigades of 2 units deep with a horde? Or a brigade of 2 giants? Or do you consistently throw in vampires for that additional hitting power?
Vampires themselves don't add a lot of power by themselves. Being characters their main task is to get your army across the table (like other army characters in WM). The exceptions are the black coach and the winged nightmare mount upgrades for their terror ability - it takes away power from the opponent's units rather than adding to ones own. You have to be willing to risk your leaders though.
The nice thing about VC is that even after taking a lot of the more expensive units you end up with a massive horde (relative to other armies). Ghouls are by no means an automatic choice, but their large number of attacks and initiative mean that I take them in every game. I max out on ethereal hosts as well. These infantry units can cause a ton of damage on the attack, and with decent dice can make destroying them expensive for the opponent.
The first choice for blunting cavalry attacks is of course getting the jump on them with your own cav. I take 2-4 units of wolves and they work pretty well for this. They melt away fast but with their extra attack can lay on some hurt. I also take 2 units of black knights, which can hold their own against almost any other cav in the game. I'd rather use them to chop through blocks of infantry in order to reach the opponents break point however. (Our gaming group tends to be infantry and terrain heavy, so these numbers might seem low to some - adjust accordingly)
Second choice: Skeletons and zombies are great for getting in the way. Since a cavalry brigade can only make 1 charge and 1 follow-on charge, a couple of well-placed expendables will protect one's flank or more important units from a cavalry charge very well. A less reliable but very effective way of getting rid of opponents' cav is the raise dead spell. By blocking their retreat, you make them melt away in the blink of an eye. The price is the stink eye from your opponent ;)
Once you realize that all of your units (except for the black knights, maybe) are expendable, all sorts of options open up for dealing with powerful enemy brigades, including giants.
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The main way for infantry to deal with cavalry in Warmaster is to sandwich them on the flanks. VC might have a tougher time with it as they have to be ordered in, but you can always raise dead on the other flank.
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The nice thing about VC is that even after taking a lot of the more expensive units you end up with a massive horde (relative to other armies). Ghouls are by no means an automatic choice, but their large number of attacks and initiative mean that I take them in every game. I max out on ethereal hosts as well. These infantry units can cause a ton of damage on the attack, and with decent dice can make destroying them expensive for the opponent.
So what do you think of this,
300 - 10 Skeletons
140 - 4 Zombies
220 - 4 Ghouls
360 - 4 Ethereal Host
220 - 2 Black Knights
120 - 3 Dire Wolves
150 - 1 Vampire Lord
400 - 3 Vampire
- 1 Winged Nightmare (80)
- 2 Black Coach (80)
90 - 2 Necromancer
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2000 - 27/14
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So what do you think of this,
300 - 10 Skeletons
140 - 4 Zombies
220 - 4 Ghouls
360 - 4 Ethereal Host
220 - 2 Black Knights
120 - 3 Dire Wolves
150 - 1 Vampire Lord
400 - 3 Vampire
- 1 Winged Nightmare (80)
- 2 Black Coach (80)
90 - 2 Necromancer
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2000 - 27/14
I heartily approve this event and/or product. It looks like a a few lists I've constructed myself. I have yet to figure out whether to concentrate the ghouls, or distribute them among the zombies and skeletons.
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I heartily approve this event and/or product. It looks like a a few lists I've constructed myself. I have yet to figure out whether to concentrate the ghouls, or distribute them among the zombies and skeletons.
Thanks for the seal of approval. considering I have yet to start on my VC army (unless you count the skeletons in my TK army), I eagerly await your findings on the ghouls.
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Wait a minute, we're discussing how easy it is to beard VC with tonnes of units - why do they need an artillery unit, again? =-P
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I view it as much less beardy to build a good-sized horde because they lack shooting. As far as the really huge almost-all-skeleton army, if someone wants to buy all those models instead of fielding VC and three other WM armies, let 'em. Their loss ;)
As forbes notes, the horde also will do more than its fair share of sitting around because of lack of command.