Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Rules Questions => Topic started by: Dranask1 on November 13, 2014, 10:51:20 AM
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Sorry to post what should now be obvious to me, but somewhere along the line an error has crept in.
My understanding of what defines a supporting unit:
In summary:
A stand may support if it is touching a unit in combat
Provided it is not itself in combat
Provided it is not confused
Provided it is exactly behind or alongside and facing the same way.
A stand can be supported if it is touched by an enemy unit to its front and also its side or rear.
A stand can not be supported if it is attacked in their rear or flank, i.e. no attack to front.
To calculate which stands are supporting:
After combat remove stands that have fallen casualty. Only now do you see which stands are supporting.
A stand that was supporting a destroyed stand, no longer has anything to support.
After result then:
Supporting units do not purse.
Supporting units do not retreat, instead they may choose to make way, if they do not make way then the retreating stand(s) is/are destroyed.
It is possible to affect combat results by using adjacent infantry stands to support fighting infantry units. This represents the ability of a unit to threaten the enemy’s flanks or to provide solidity through depth. Only infantry can support and be supported in this way.
A stand can only support if it is not touching an enemy and the unit it belongs to is not confused. The stand must be aligned either exactly behind or exactly beside a stand that fought to its front during the combat round. The supporting stand must also be facing in the same direction as the supported stand as shown in the accompanying diagrams. Note that a stand touched by enemy to its front and sides or rear during the combat round can be supported, but a stand touched by enemy only to its sides or rear cannot. A supporting stand can be from the same unit as the fighting stand it supports or from a completely different unit. See Diagram 44.1.
Each friendly supporting stand in position once both sides have fought adds a +1 bonus ‘hit’ to the combat result of the supported side. Stands that fall casualty during the fighting cannot support or be supported.
This can turn defeat into a draw or victory or increase the effect of a victory in an ensuing pursuit. Note that supporting stands only add a bonus ‘hit’ to the combat result. They do not actually inflict hits, though the bonus counts towards the side’s overall score and so affects the defeated side’s retreat distance.
A unit placed directly behind a fighting unit to support it as shown in Diagram 44.2 is not engaged in combat and cannot therefore pursue if the enemy retreats (see Pursuit and Retreats). If the fighting unit in front is forced to retreat, an unengaged supporting unit does not retreat with it but must make way for it or refuse to do so. This is explained under Blocked Retreats and in more detail in the Confusion section of the rules.
The error that has crept in:
I believe there is some confusion in my club over which stands support.
I've seen people including myself count as 'supporting' stands that were supporting at the beginning of combat.
I believe this might be a Warmaster Ancients variation.
I thought I'd read somewhere or learnt that this was now a Warmaster errata/amendment.
I'd appreciate being pointed in the correct direction.
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You are correct. Warmaster is what you told.
Count support before removing casualities is not warmaster it comes from Warmaster Ancient rulebook.
Possibility of supporting unit to pursuit is not warmaster it comes from Warmaster Ancient rulebook.
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Many thanks
We have played a considerable amount of Warmaster since Stormwind tentatively suggested it as our memorial challenge game. A challenge where you might start with nothing, build an army and learn the rules.
The result is core of 6 people who relish the game.
If any of you are ever near Maidenhead let us know and bring your army. We play on a Friday night but I have a big enough conservatory so can play any night, after negotiation. ;)
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6 people in the same area interested in WM and a regular place, lucky you.
Take care of the group, and have fun (also share your games and armies around here :))
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I've seen people including myself count as 'supporting' stands that were supporting at the beginning of combat.
Since I have been recently in contact with quite some warmaster groups around the world over my task to collect house rules for a Living Rule Book. It is a common house rule to giving infantry the edge.
Ole
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Thanks Ole, will pass that on, we must decided if that is a house rule for us or not.
We are fortunate jchaos79
Just a quick final question under the 'standard rules' as I know I will be asked.
:'( = stand 1
:-[ = stand 2
:o = stand 3
8) = enemy
:'( :'( :'( :'( :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
:o :o :o :o
8) 8) 8) 8)
In the above stand 1 supports stand 3
I've always assumed stand 2 touching at corner, can also support stand 3
Assuming not disqualified for any other reason.
True or false
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Stand 2 cannot support as I understand it, it has to be adjacent or behind.
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Stand 2 cannot support stand 3.
Corner to corner does not support. To support they have to share an edge.
stormwind is right.
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Excellent chaps, I think we can proceed with confidence.
My thanks
Back to painting more Baccus goblins so I can legally field 4k.
Currently have five bases, so legal 2k now Stormwind.
We must organise a days warmaster again.
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>>We must organise a days warmaster again.
Blimey I need to buy / make some more terrain then!
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Also remember that a unit fighting on its front corner can be supported by valid units immediatly to their side or rear (they basically count as being engaged on their front edge)
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Just Some info on this support before or after combat.
The support rule in the original game is counted after casualties have been removed. However in the French translation of these, support is counted at the beginning of combat. This was found out at the Nerviens tournament near Lille somewhere in 2002 or 2003.
French were very happy with that rule and when playtesting for warmaster ancients was done, this was a rule many felt very comfortabel with, hence it's inclusion in the warmaster ancient rules.
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For the Saffron Walden centred group and the TriWiz tournaments, count-support-before-removing-casualties has been a long-established bit of errata. I don't think anyone gives it a second thought nowadays.
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BlackEd and I started using it locally after the Warmaster playtest weekend two years ago. It makes infantry stronger in general, not just against Cav. The one round of pursuit against against flanked Cav with infantry was another one we've been using too.