Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: cjbennett22 on October 29, 2015, 03:26:58 PM
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I swear I saw at a time a rule that described how a bridge/gap could limit the amount of troops that could pass during a turn of play.
Does anyone know what I am thinking about?
it had a measurement for the gap/bridge that scored a number of sorts, with each passing stand that number would go down until it reached 0 and then the gap or bridge was then all backed up, filled up with troops for the movement phase.
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Was this a tournament rule or a scenario rule?
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I swear I saw it in a rules clarification section of a warmaster magazine. I remember it had a nice diagram of the movement.
I'm at work on my lunch break trying to think of these so my resources are limited and was hoping on getting an answer for something later tonight.
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That sounds interesting, but also unfamiliar- which means it's probably very obscure if I haven't seen it!
Do you remember any more details?
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Honestly can't say I ever saw or heard something like that........
the way we handle this is per the normal movement rules, which means that in order to go through infantry need to rotate, which will cost them movement.
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In my limited search (3 year old kept getting back out of bed), I couldn't find anything on this. So toss this one into my very manly selective memory.
Thank you for everyone looking and giving it a thought.
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Lex: how do you cost rotation? It's something I've struggled with.
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Eyeball it, you measure from which ever part of the stand moves the most.
Or math it. From center of the base to a corner is 2.24cm. If it spins about its center, it makes a circle with a circumference of ~14cm (2 * pi * r, where r is 2.24).
So: a 90 degree spin is 3.5cm, 180 degree is 7cm, etc.
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I have been doing this:
half movement for infantry only as they have the 40mm frontage that couldn't fit through the gap of 40mm or less. it's simplest to me.
I'm probably wrong though ;)
Dave, that seems way too technical. I have to do that crap all day every weekday and sometimes Saturdays already!
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The beauty of it is you just remember 3.5 for every quarter turn. No need to calculate Pi to the umpteenth digit every time you do it...
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wow, so you actually calculate out the rotation of a stand for movement?
so when I "Advance" after winning a round of combat and actually move off to the side with 3d6 I then need to save 3.5 mm of movement to make a 90 degree turn?
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Only if that's your end position (although it would be moot there as unit in combat get a reform after all combat is done). Nothing in the rules says you have to account for rotation as you move, you can just slide it to the side.
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another example......infantry moving around a forest 20cm. from a straight combat line to a 45 degree straight combat line
I just take what would be the furthest point to point distance from the beginning formation to the end formation and draw that line out, measure the curved length and make sure it measures 20 cm
I hate it when I get scared I am doing the most basic things wrong LOL
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No part of a stand can move more than its allowance. So long as you stick yo that you're good. Warmaster abstracts out all the fiddly maneuvering rules.
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Dave, one of these days we are going to play I know it. I am honestly trying to work out adepticon in March with my brother and I'll bring my dwarf fleet (as it has few sails and im scared those will break ha) as well.
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I'm having a panic attack thinking about bringing the Empire. Time to put the Chaos Dwarves together.
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bring them both! talking about warmaster or man o'war? LOL
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MoW.
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yeah, with man o'war, bring whatever you feel comfy with. Do you have your hotel booked yet?
my wife told me I had to take our 3 year old, I said she is crazy, its hard enough having to take him with me to get a paint at the hobby store. LOL
I only have 2 warmaster armies, I am willing to bring whichever. Will dwarf or Chaos bring more flare to the tournament?
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the 3.5 and 7 rule I always used for my own movement, as Dave says, not part can move over maxed.... but I seldomly call it on my opponents, and I have seen a LOT of bendy tapemeasureing over the years that (on average) gives a unit 4-6 cm more movement......
I will whip up an example later today !
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We're booked, Wed to Mon. A Chaos army will definitely be in Friday's tourney, not sure about Dwarves. A three-year-old ar the con will be tough, the youngest I saw these past years was 5 or 6.
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Thank you lex.
I used to have a plastic 40cm stick with 10cm notches in it. It would be able to bend and really show the measurements perfectly. My then 2.5 year old going through his terrible two's bent it way to far and it snapped so now I have 2 20cm plastic sticks that don't bend all that much. Soon I will have another im sure.
Dave, I forgot the tourney is on Friday. That will add so some complexity of the whole trip but should be still manageable. I am just now looking into making the trip.
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Where does the yellow unit end up if it moves in front of the (friendly) white one
(http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/AdkGallery/14464515172start.jpg)
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well it cant move through or see through or split up to take the shortest route per stand to make it around the 3 friendly stands. so I would measure 20 from top right corner of the left stand moving to the right and going around. I would physically move the left stand to the new spot on the table and line up the others along side it. I could move to a column 3 deep with the measured stand being in the rear.
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OK....
1) move the rightmost stand 4 cm to the right
2) it will become the center stand after the move which means it will end up needing 8 cm to make that position
3) 12 cm movement spend, allows for a forward move of 8 cm (creating a 4 cm gap between the units)
4) middle stand move 8to the right, 8 forward and 4 to align
5) left stand goes 4 LEFT, 8 forward and 4 RIGHT <----- yes, this stand does NOT move full allowance
so you end up with two units exactly aligned, but 4 cm apart....
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I don't remember anything about it in the rules, but I would agree with CJbennett22 that stands shouldn't split from their unit to take the shortest route (as Lex does with the left most stand). The rules may allow it, but I view that as an oversight and wouldn't do it.
The difference with my way then is:
1) Move the rightmost stand 4cm right. It will become the leftmost stand later, which will take 12cm of move. That gives it 4cm to move forward.
2) The centre stand moves 8 right, 4 forward and 8 left.
3) The left stand moves 12 right, 4 forward and 4 left.
The end result is that the units are exactly aligned, but with a 2cm gap (vs Lex's 4cm).
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Rules as written propagate movement PER stand, allowing for S&S against a moving stand, which might allow other stands to make contact etc......
The only restriction being that at the START and END of the movement stands are in legal contact with an other stand of their unit.
But you are following VECTOR measurement, which demonstrates my point
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I do not see anything in the rule book stating you cannot separate your stands. I will have to agree with you Lex.
I always knew movement distances were per stand but always thought of a unit moving as one thing and keeping their stands together.
Good to know ;)
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I'm sorry, I didn't get one point - in what situation will you need the cm numbers for rotation?
Well actually any time you change a units facing.........
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That was back at the beginning, talking about a gap of terrain formations. Infantry can move through the smallest edge gap (2cm) but would need to rotate to do so. The rotation from line to column and back to line would take 3.5cm each time so it would then only end up moving 13cm. 3.5x2=7(from line to column and from column to line), 20-7=13.
I think we agreed on the fact that if you were just moving your units around then no big deal, 20cm point to point BUT yes, moving through a weird gap in the terrain would then need to limit your movement in the sense that the formation of men would need to shuffle around and cost the unit some time and then setting back up again on the other side. I honestly have not played on a table this detailed though.
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But isn't it a theoretical conjecture?
The rules don't say anything about a stand having to conserve it's form while moving, do they? I imagined that in these kind of situations a stand moves like a drop of water - making itself thinner and thicker passing through a gap. Need clarification.
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Nope, the stand is the stand. If it needs to rotate it has to pay for it.
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Ok, that makes me totally confused) I am too, fearing that we are doing the most basic things wrong)
Do we have to treat a stand as a ship? That can go only forward and for every possible rotation we have to pay in cm? I didn't see that in the rules... Need to read again.
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The stand can move in any direction it wants: forward, side, back. It needs to turn to fit through gaps though, and when it turns you have to pay for it.
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Its like changing formation in the marching band in school. You need to pay movement to change formation and your troops need to keep in formation or they become "confused"
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So am I right to say that we need to pay in movement range for Every rotation that occurs? This includes wheels, changing facings and so on.
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For most friendly games I think people tend to skip this rule, or incorporate it in houserules.
e. crossing a bridge or other obstacle forcing a unit to narrow and then widen its frontage cost the halve of their move.....
Also, doing an about face, usually means units stay in place, so the actualy distance moved is considered zero (just the minis on the stand moving, instead of the stand 8) ::) )
Doing some of the Math, I think in the forum there is already some diagrams
wheeling on a point.
The radius to the furthest point of the stand = 4 cm.
A full circle would be 2piR = 2x3,14x4 or 8x 3,14.
We usually "measure" the number of "quarts", so a rotation of 90o or less, but > 450 would be 6,28 rounded to 6 cm of movement.
Wheeling on the center, your radius goes to 2 cm, so the full circle would be = 2x2x3,14 = 4x 3,14, so a 90o rotation would be a 3,14 rounded to 3 cm move, and an about face would be 6 cm move.