Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Rules Questions => Topic started by: Sjapie on June 12, 2016, 10:06:04 AM
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I'm interested in what others use if you are playing with wolf riders or other cavalry that can shoot all around.
Do you allow them to react on initiative if there's units within initiative range, but not in the frontal zone?
We do, but I'm interested if this is a generally accepted view or not.
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I always played them that way
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It would def add to their usefullness and make me pick them more often. Especially since OnG's in particular have no flyers to counter opponents pesky flyers with! :P
/Mlkr
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you can react by initiative to all you can see.
Those light cav see all around. Cavalry see 180º to the front.
Wolf raiders works well when brigade 4.
As they have short frontal they could have good shoot power and they play a good defensive role... I mean if a brigade of 4 heavy cav charge them, they are not good, but they can defend themself pretty well agains infantry and other light infantry.
When attacking use them to support other units that make the main attack. In example, a two infantry unit of orcs attack to the frontal wolves in the flank or if they fall the last order wolves can shoot to the flank and try to neutralize (drive back) the units that are supporting to the enemy.
Anther use is they can run fast through the battlefiled to block holes in your line. They can defend that way other valuable units.
hope I could explain myself.
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I don't think I ever seen it come up, but it makes sense to me that they would be able to.
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hope I could explain myself.
Of course! Very good tips :)
/Mlkr
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Here is a pic
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu205/jchaos79/20160612_174225_zpsay6ozrzc.jpg)
As I do not have the orcish near, I took the araby for the example agains some ratmen.
I suppouse is turn of araby and the general is near.
First the blue order. Infantry attack, by iniciative or by one order.
Then red order. It is very probable to succed the order. I assume the light cavalry is 20cm to enemy but could be far of 20cm and then they do not have the -1. The only thing important is they should finish at 15cm or less in the enemy flank.
Then the white order. Now it is difficult to happen, second order, proximity and it is very probable the general is far away 20cm or even 40+cm. But this las order is not very important because they are light cavalry. If the order succed they horsemen charge to the side of ratmen. But if they fail they can shoot (6 shots) to the ratmen swordmen. It is proabable that those ratmen swordmen are driven back denying the support to the charge of arab lancers.
If you do the same with heavy cavalry instead light cavalry then the white order must happens or your strategy will fail. Even if the white orders fails you are exposing your knights for nothing deep in the enemy battleline.
Laght cav as they see all around does not need even to be in the same situations as in the pic (looking to the ratmen) exposing their flank to the enemy battline. They could be slightly diagonal, presenting front to the enemy battleline but seeing 360º and able to shoot or charge to the ratmen swordmen
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Strictly rulewise such units can evade according to errata, but I don't belive they can charge and enemy that is not infront of them. However it would sound like cool houserule. Only thing in that case is Empire Pistoliers, who have this ability and 5+ save at the same time, which makes them pretty tought considering them "light cavalry".
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I personally do not like the idea very much for a couple of reasons.
1. The light cavalry can either be riding straight and relatively organized and be able to effectively shoot to all directions by turning around in their saddles - which will not give them so much advantage in charging backwards, because they still need to reform (in a similar way as different cavalry), or it can be circling around the enemy, which is really great for shoot-and-run attacks, but basically doesn't allow you to charge properly at all (because they need to make some kind of formation to be properly effective). (That's my personal view.)
2. Rules clearly define when a unit is assumed to be able to see an enemy in order to charge him (uninterupted line of sight from the front edge). And rules for light cavalry only mention shooting.
3. Under most of the circumstances, when you want to take down a cavalry unit, you want to charge it to the flank in order to only fight against one stand. And unless you charge them with 1 cavalry stand exactly from the flank, they all get to shoot. I consider this a fair tradeoff for those 15 cm of range.
4. The Empire Pistoliers didn't come into my mind before, but Aldhick has a point here.
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which idea is the one you do not like Grimnir?
Talking about WM rules (not WMA rules)
1- I do not get your point. Charges are 20cm. It does not matter if you are in regular or irregular formation. Charges only affect to the contact position with the enemy.
2- That is true. I was wrong in my first post. Aldhick spotted first. Only for shooting 360ºC.
3- Stand and shoot (S&S). They are able to shoot all the previously non engaged stands of the unit, it does not matter if stands has LOS to the charging unit. So in hte case you state they benefit of all S&S
4- Yep, Pistoliers has armour 5+. But I think is my fault here. In WM (nor WMA) there no exist the concept of light cavalry.
In WM it exists only cavalry with a special. Then you go for the rule that applies to wolf raiders and apply it, or the rule that apply to pistoliers and apply it. There are no a general rule for light infantry..
In WMA there is a name of a unit called "light cavalry" that is cavalry, and has its own specials like "skirmish".
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1. I was just trying to put it against what I imagine happens in reality. It was not meant as a rule reference. You're right about the irregular formation, of course.
3. They are just allowed to shoot at an enemy charging them from any direction. I didn't notice any mention of shooting through friendly stands. So I believe, in that rare case, when you would be charging them to the flank with one stand of cavalry exactly at 90 degrees angle, only 1 stand would be able to see the charging unit - and therefore only 1 stand would shoot. Just to mention, this never happened in any of my games and I don't think it ever will. ;)
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Hi
3- I took the rules, check it... and you are right again. Sorry for that. I am a little bit rusty. I should re-read again the book/s (WM and WMA).
:)