Specialist Arms Forum
Specialist Games General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stomm on October 28, 2009, 09:27:04 PM
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Just a general shout out to any that might be interested, especially if they play any of the Warmaster variants or fancy playing some Space Hulk... ;)
I have had initial meetings with a potential venue that is, well fifteen minutes from my front door, about five minutes from the tube station and has a full alcohol license... So far things are looking good, and as I am sure that any of you London-based players are aware, finding a club venue that doesn't want to charge you through the nose is, well like finding hen's teeth...
Ultimately we would be looking to occupy a hall that would cost £50 an evening (£5 and hour, I'm thinking 6-11, or 5:30-10:30) (at present), but the facilities manager is willing to let us use a smaller room for much lower than the normal rate for a couple of months (I need to iron these details out) until we have a regular enough attendance to be able to move into there and be able to cover the full rent.
So, if anyone is interested then well I guess just post in this thread, PM's will be a pain in the arse to keep track of, and emails will be even worse. I'm hoping to be able to get our first club night up and running by the beginning of December, maybe sooner if I get enough firm interest and a couple of willing volunteers to help spread the organisational side of things (IoW be responsible enough to open up and lock up, etc...), then it might be even sooner, I'm guessing that three weeks would be a minimum to knock three boards together and to scrounge some terrain to use...
Anyway there you go. Hopefully this will allow me to play a little more than the once or twice a year I can manage at the moment... Heck, I'd even be willing to play 40K, WH or possibly even dust off my old Epic army, although I'd rather not do the later just yet as I know that if I do I won't be able to stop at just taking out my old models.... ;)
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I live in Finchley, and am an Epic player. Could probably rope some more players in too.
Where's the hall?
£50 an evening sounds like too much for a little Wargames club...
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Well, I misquoted myself, it's £10 an hour. If you get ten people paying £5, then you break even, if you get more than that then you can buy more boards, etc... The hall that we would ultimately look to move into can easily accommodate 20 tables, maybe a bit more.
Basically around £5 is I think the reasonable figure to look towards for a table fee for an evening's play, certainly in London. Any less than that and you're into playing in a mate's spare bedroom or garage territory, any more than that and some people, especially students, etc... Will find it very hard to make it.
I am thinking of initially starting up on a Wednesday evening, largely because it doesn't seem to conflict with many other clubs North London (IIRC Ponders End is on a Tuesday, as is one of the central London game night thingies), allows the local Jewish kids to make it, and of course means that those that still have a social life can make it as well. Then when numbers pick up and we've got properly organised, if there is demand for it we might be able to have a monthly day-long weekend session as well that could be tied in with campaigns, or even running our own tournaments in due course...
Anyway, that's the idea for the moment. I'm going to try to arrange a meeting this coming week to nail down some rent figures and try to give a projection of when we can start and when we might be able to move into the large outbuilding (the rooms in the house itself are, well bloody expensive normally). I expect that things won't really start to pick up until the end of January, maybe mid-february, but that's no reason not to try to get things going before December, heck I want to start playing again, anything will do....
Oh and as to the venue. Its Avenue House, here's their website: http://www.avenuehouse.org.uk/ (http://www.avenuehouse.org.uk/) They have indicated that whilst we're still starting they'd let us have one of the smaller rooms in the house for a lot less than the normal rent, as well they're already being heated. But once we've got ourselves up and running, then we are to move into part of the old stable block, which is used as a scout hut on Monday Nights. Its pretty basic, but its comparable to the usual church halls, etc... that you otherwise find games clubs in, and of course it has the huge benefit of being a heck of a lot cheaper than anything else I can find in the area...
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Well, I misquoted myself, it's £10 an hour. If you get ten people paying £5, then you break even, if you get more than that then you can buy more boards, etc... The hall that we would ultimately look to move into can easily accommodate 20 tables, maybe a bit more.
Basically around £5 is I think the reasonable figure to look towards for a table fee for an evening's play, certainly in London. Any less than that and you're into playing in a mate's spare bedroom or garage territory, any more than that and some people, especially students, etc... Will find it very hard to make it.
£5 per person is steep, in my experience.
'The Cross' in Charing Cross (very central london) charge £2 per table.
Central London Wargamers (Euston) charge nothing.*
The Perseverence (Paddington) charge nothing.*
*Though you are expected to buy a drink or two at the bar.
I am thinking of initially starting up on a Wednesday evening, largely because it doesn't seem to conflict with many other clubs North London (IIRC Ponders End is on a Tuesday, as is one of the central London game night thingies), allows the local Jewish kids to make it, and of course means that those that still have a social life can make it as well. Then when numbers pick up and we've got properly organised, if there is demand for it we might be able to have a monthly day-long weekend session as well that could be tied in with campaigns, or even running our own tournaments in due course...
Wednesdays are probably good, as GW Wood Green recently stopped opening late nights on a Wednesday there may be some interest from there.
Oh and as to the venue. Its Avenue House, here's their website: http://www.avenuehouse.org.uk/ (http://www.avenuehouse.org.uk/) They have indicated that whilst we're still starting they'd let us have one of the smaller rooms in the house for a lot less than the normal rent, as well they're already being heated. But once we've got ourselves up and running, then we are to move into part of the old stable block, which is used as a scout hut on Monday Nights. Its pretty basic, but its comparable to the usual church halls, etc... that you otherwise find games clubs in, and of course it has the huge benefit of being a heck of a lot cheaper than anything else I can find in the area...
Have you tried asking pubs if they're willing to let a spare room upstairs be used for free, on condition that the gamers buy a drink or two?
You did mention kids though, so maybe that's a non-starter.
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Oh and I've been meaning to build a 'display' standard Epic board for a while, this may give me the excuse to do so!
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£5 per person is steep, in my experience.
'The Cross' in Charing Cross (very central london) charge £2 per table.
Central London Wargamers (Euston) charge nothing.*
The Perseverence (Paddington) charge nothing.*
*Though you are expected to buy a drink or two at the bar.
Well, even when I used to go to clubs in Milton Keynes and Northampton sixteen or seventeen years ago they charged £2-3 per person to play. If a club has no form of income, then even if there is no rent to pay then it will never be able to get beyond the 'bring it yourself' stage, and getting new boards, etc... will rely in effect on some members to subsidise the rest of the club by donating them themselves, etc... As of course your normal function table is 3'x6', just about the wrong size for most games...
Likewise the only club I've regularly frequented in London, Tanelorn charges IIRC £4-6 per evening. They are in financial difficulties at the moment though, due of course to high rents and attendance numbers that can't support those rents, so they are looking to move to a cheaper venue, unfortunately for me even further East around the A406...
Wednesdays are probably good, as GW Wood Green recently stopped opening late nights on a Wednesday there may be some interest from there.
Well, Finchley is almost equidistant from Brent Cross and Wood Green, and has pretty good transport links by bus and tube. Plus there are several large schools in the immediate area of the venue I'm looking at. So whilst the central London clubs obviously cater for those that work in central London, I am aiming much more towards attracting regular attendees from the local area, and perhaps as far west as Wembley and beyond for those who drive. But of course I'd be looking for a great deal of the advertising and potential members for the club to come from the 'regulars' of these two GW stores, be they teenagers or grumpy old men like me, etc...
Have you tried asking pubs if they're willing to let a spare room upstairs be used for free, on condition that the gamers buy a drink or two?
You did mention kids though, so maybe that's a non-starter.
Well, I think that the central London clubs cater for the adult gamers that work in town and don't mind playing in a cramped function room and having a few pints. So looking for free function rooms in pubs (as far as I am aware there are no pubs in Finchley with separate function rooms, well there might be one but I'd rather not cross its threshold...) would merely be replicating these but in the suburbs. It also ties you very specifically to that venue and does of course as you say, limit your members to adults I guess, although IIRC 16 year olds can go into a pub, they just can't buy anything more than a soft drink. But as I'm sure you all know, many wargamers tend to pick up the new hobby of 'beer and girls' around the age of 16, and only a select few come back to the hobby when they are 21+... It also ensures that you will be very, very unlikely to be able to do a weekend club meeting, or of course organise events there, etc...
That's the theory anyway... Of course if we can get 20+ people to turn up regularly, then table rates can go down. Another way to reduce costs is to reduce the hall hire time. So if you are being charged £10hr, and you expect ten people, then rather than doing 6-11, or 5:30-10:30, you could do 6-10, or even really pushing it for 7-10. But personally I'd rather have a longer club night to allow for either two quick games, or one big or slow game... Heck in 5hrs you could do four or maybe even six Space Hulk missions once both players know what they're doing...
I know that the demand is there. During the summer some of the regulars at BX tried to set up a club in the Borders store across the A406, but being tied to the 9pm store closing time meant that it would have excluded most adults that worked, and of course myself as my wife often gets home around 7-8pm (I'm likely to have to pay a babysitter to be able to go to this club when it's set up). But the guys that were trying to set it up were IIRC students and teachers, so when the holidays finished suddenly they didn't have the time to set it up any more...
Anyway, enough waffling for the time being...
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Well, I think that the central London clubs cater for the adult gamers that work in town and don't mind playing in a cramped function room and having a few pints....
I would note that the advantage there is not specifically of gaming after work, but of a central location that's easy to get to for everyone.
The Euston club I frequent on Tuesdays has space for ~10 gaming tables, is free to game at (if you buy a couple of drinks), and doesn't feel cramped.
Anyhow, I support your effort to set up a Finchley based club, as I think the area could support one.
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I would note that the advantage there is not specifically of gaming after work, but of a central location that's easy to get to for everyone.
The Euston club I frequent on Tuesdays has space for ~10 gaming tables, is free to game at (if you buy a couple of drinks), and doesn't feel cramped.
Anyhow, I support your effort to set up a Finchley based club, as I think the area could support one.
I'm not saying anything against the central London clubs, heck if I could go to them myself I most probably would at least one night a week. But, I would say that it holds that they do largely cater for those that work in or around central London and fancy a game after work, or of course students of the central London universities, heck UCL, etc... isn't that far from Euston after all...
But consider my own I'm guessing pretty much unique situation into account, being at home with the kids whilst the wife works for a bank in Canary Wharf and gets up at 5:30am every morning, and therefore gets very grumpy if I wake her up coming to bed any later than 11pm, and doesn't generally get home until 7pm at best. I'd get to Euston at the earliest around 8pm, then would really have to leave two hours later, therefore leaving very little time for a game and no real time for the social aspect of the hobby which IMHO is just as important as shuffling your models around on a table...
Anyway, that's why I'm looking to set up a club closer to home. Whilst either way I'd almost certainly have to employ a baby-sitter to cover the time between me having to leave for the club (if it starts at 6pm, then that would be 5:50pm if I drive, 5:30pm if I walk) and the wife getting home between 7 and 9pm. But the important thing is I'll be able to get home a heck of a lot quicker.
Rambling again I see... I guess the initial table fee will end up depending upon the capacity of the room we start off in, the sort of hours that most people are happy with and of course the initial rent we are charged, together with the level of local interest and engagement.
As an aside if you, or anyone you know would be interested in actually helping to run the club, get things like a constitution sorted out and so on then I obviously need all the help I can get. One of the other reasons I'm considering Wednesday evenings is because with both girls in nursery for the half day, Thursday is my best day for being able to do banking...
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Looks like the currently homeless Brent Cross Imperials might be locating here instead. Makes my life a lot easier, as there are already a couple of committee members, some boards, terrain and some small start up funds. So all being well, we should be able to get the club off to a flying start...
Did I mention we can have a bar?.... ;D
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We've got a room secured probably at least until the New Year, the first club night will be Wednesday the 25th of November, but we'll probably have a 'turn up and help paint the boards' evening before then. I'll post any updates here if I can, but basically we're going to move the BX Imperials if its less hassle admin-wise, and will be looking at a table fee (per person) of £5. We might run a reduced rate for the first night, but that hasn't really been discussed, never mind decided...
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TBH I think a £5 per game fee will probably put people I know off, but I'll let 'em know regardless.
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Well when the hall hire is £10hr, running from 6-10:30 means that we need to make £45 a night just to cover rent, never mind PLI, new tables, terrain and so on. I've done my calculations based on achieving an attendence of 10 per night, if we got double that then obviously table fees, club subs or whatever could be reduced maybe to as little as £3 for members, and then £5 for non-members, with an annual membership fee of £10 with the membership year starting a month before the PLI is due...
However, we may well run the first club night or two at a much reduced fee, or possibly have a club meetingto discuss such things outside of the venue, etc... As obviously we want the subs to be as low as possible, but they need to be high enough to cover the rent with enough left over to at the very least buy new boards and some tins of green paint from B&Q...
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Just a quick bump to remind anyone that might be interested that the first club night is tomorrow, Wednesday the 25th of November. It starts at 6pm, and we need to be packed up and out of the building by 10:30pm. As it's our first club night and boards are limited (unless Dan has managed to pick some up from B&Q), it will be free of charge.
I will likely be brining my copy of Space Hulk, and maybe some 40K stuff, but if anyone wants a game of Warmaster or Warmaster Ancients then please do let me know...
You can find it on Google Maps http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&rls=en&q=N3+3QE&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=London+N3+3QE,+UK&ei=FZQLS5CQLcH44AbBiuiVBA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA (http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&rls=en&q=N3+3QE&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=London+N3+3QE,+UK&ei=FZQLS5CQLcH44AbBiuiVBA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA), its actually the large building to the East, the building highlighted has actually been sold off as flats...
And the venue's website is: http://www.avenuehouse.org.uk/index.php (http://www.avenuehouse.org.uk/index.php)
I hope to see some of you there tomorrow...
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I wasn't able to make it ; how did the first day go?
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Very well indeed. Eleven people turned up, even if three of them didn't bring armies, etc... and were just there to 'take a look'. They all said that they'd arrganged games, were bringing armies, etc... next week though. I managed to get a game of Space Hulk in (mission 1 twice), and should hopefully be playing mission 2 next week, and then maybe a game of Warmaster, or perhaps the other way around...
Basically things seem to be going well. We are hoping to get the proceedural stuff out of the way next week, altering the constitution to better define just who a member is, then holding a first AGM to appoiint committee members, vote in the move, decide how to treat the boards we have (paint green, use textured paint, how many reverse sides to paint black or yellow, etc, etc..). We will be charging a membership fee of between £1-5 to enable this to be carried out, IoW if you have paid a membership fee then you can vote in the AGM. We will likely also use the AGM or EGM to set the initial weekly table fee, subs or whatever you want to call them which in order for us to be able to move forward, and indeed start paying the rent. I anticipate that these won't be brought in until the following week.
Anyway, any questions then please ask, these are exciting times in North London for wargamers it seems... ;D
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May as well post here to let interested people know that starting in May we will be starting at 7pm rather than 6pm. The £10 for that hour just couldn't be justified by the two or three people that can actually make it to the club for 6pm, as most people seem to get there after 7pm.
Other than that, looks like we're going to be playing some Heroquest tonight...
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Not much notice to get down there on time :(
I love HQ! ;D
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Well come next week then. We've got a new member who hasn't really got any army of note to play with yet, but does have a thing about Hero Quest and this week he's finally getting four of us to sit down and play through it with him. I've never played before, so should be an interesting experience.
On a side note, the chances of me being able to tag a two day Warmaster event onto a Warhammer tournie in July, August or September is now increasing rather than decreasing. I've now got someone willing to write and run the Warhammer side of things, I just need to get another club or two on board to get the necissary number of boards and bodies to the venue, etc... Either way, if it all comes together it should be a real blast...
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Just a quick update as we are moving club venue this coming Sunday due to rising rent, etc... We're actually moving to an even better venue, it's literally just around the corner from West Finchley Underground station, is a proper 'hall', a scout hall to be precise.
Anyway, I'll post fuller details when time permits, ideally before the weekend. But the venue is Gordon Hall, West Finchley. Club nights will start at the new venue on Monday the 2nd of August (we are changing to a monday for the club nights), 7:30pm-10:30pm. However, the day beforehand, that being the 'move date', we will be having a day of free gaming from 1pm-6pm, that's a five hour weekend session that won't count as your 'first time FoC' gaming session, and if an existing member you won't have to pay a penny for.
I've already got a game of (shock horror) Warhammer lined up, but I may play a game in an ongoing Space Hulk campaign afterwards. But anyone is more than welcome to come along and play anything, SG's included of course, indeed as far as I am concerned the more the merrier... ;)
Any questions obviously feel free to PM, email me or whatever.