Dark Elf Cold One Knights -> charged in front and edge

[Claus]

Hello gentlemen.

How many attacks do a Dark Elf Cold One Knight unit get in the first round of combat when being charged in the front and in the edge at the same time.
They have special rule to get +1 attack in first round of combat against targets in the front.

So no discussion about the stands having only front contact (they will fight with 4 attacks per stand in first round of combat)

But what about the stand having enemies in the front and in the edge ?
Does it get 3 attacks (+1 for front and -1 for edge ) ?
Does it only get 2 attacks as the edge contact with enemy cancels the special rule ?

Would be nice to know as the definition of their special rule is not clear enough (in my opinion).

Regards
Claus

[Lex]

Extra attack was included to represent feocity of the cold ones. It was limited to targets from front edge. if a stand only has C2C contact with front edge I would allow the +1 attack. If the attacking stand is on the FLANK, disallow the bonus (even if the flanking stands go past the front-edge.

As the unit is flanked it will loose 1 att, if it ONLY fighting enemy on flank then 1 stand fights with just 2 att.

[Schindbua]

If the attacking stand is on the FLANK, disallow the bonus (even if the flanking stands go past the front-edge.

Do you mean like this:
A=attacking unit
C= Cold One Knights

A
ACCC
A

What about this case:

AAAA
ACCC
A

I would say the stand on the left side has 3 attacks (+1 for front contact; -1 for flank attack, like claus said) and the other two stands have 4 attacks per stand.
Am i right?

cheers stefan

[Lex]

Yep, that is how I would interpret that too

[wmchaos2000]

We use a dynamic approach. 
If they were to attack the unit to the front, it gets one extra attack and loses one. Because it is fighting to the front. (3+1-1=3)
If they were to attack the unit to the flank, it loses one attack. Because it is fighting to the flank (not the front). (3-1=2)
 

[Lex]

We use a dynamic approach. 
If they were to attack the unit to the front, it gets one extra attack and loses one. Because it is fighting to the front. (3+1-1=3)
If they were to attack the unit to the flank, it loses one attack. Because it is fighting to the flank (not the front). (3-1=2)
 

That is the same as we say above I think.....

[wmchaos2000]

Almost. Ours is depending on who the cold ones are choosing to strike against.

[Claus]

I would say the solution description given by "wmchaos2000" is the best one.

Regards
Claus

[Bel]

IIRC all enemy stands in frontal arc of COK (180 degrees) may be biten with extra attack (including those ones who charge the COK to the flank but still remain in frontal arc of the COK)

C - COK, A - frontal enemy charger, E -flank enemy charger.

E__AAA
ECCC
E

Upper stand E is still in frontal arc of COK (regardless the type of E (inf/cav)), so the left stand C may strike the left enemy unit with 3+1-1=3 attacks.

Another case:

___AAA
ECCC
E
E

Upper stand  E is not in frontal arc of COK, so the left stand C may strike the left enemy unit with 3-1=2 attacks.

[Claus]

Hello Bel.

The situation 2 described by you .....

___AAA
ECCC
E
E

will never happen in open terrain...

I have to move first stand of charger to center of nearest charged stand (that´s a rule)
As the edge of cvalry is 4cm long the first charging stand will be place centraly (covering 2cm) and the remaining 2 stands will be position left and right of it getting each 1cm edge contact with COK.

The explaination given for your situation 1.....

E__AAA
ECCC
E

..... I do not agree with your exlaination ..... because it would mean that if I charge with only 1 cavalry unit the COK in the edge I will never get the full bonus for an edge charge.
They are not fighting to their front....

But at least it shows that it is not clear for quite a lot of experienced players  

Regards
Claus

[spiritusXmachina]

That's really a nice issue.

B
BAAA
B

We all agree that in the above example the Cold One unit A would get their extra attack
But what if the upper stand of unit B just partly goes over the 180 degree frontline?

B_AAA
B
B

[Guthwine]

@Spiritus: I would say in both your examples the cold ones would not get the bonus attack, as these both are pure flank charges.

[Bel]

Hello Bel.

The situation 2 described by you .....

___AAA
ECCC
E
E

will never happen in open terrain...

I have to move first stand of charger to center of nearest charged stand (that´s a rule)
As the edge of cvalry is 4cm long the first charging stand will be place centraly (covering 2cm) and the remaining 2 stands will be position left and right of it getting each 1cm edge contact with COK.

Really? I mean here the lower stand E doesn't have enough move to reach the enemy or can't be placed on the left side of central stand (and in the COK arc of sight) because it is already unaccessible. One and only meaning of this situation is that the enemy flankers are not placed in COK's AoS.

..... I do not agree with your exlaination ..... because it would mean that if I charge with only 1 cavalry unit the COK in the edge I will never get the full bonus for an edge charge.
They are not fighting to their front....

Keyword is 'COK's Arc of sight' as it is written in their rules. There is a decision how flankers may avoid their extra attack - just use the rule of 'maximum move of chargers' in the same way as in the situation above (a bit trickly but may occur unintentionally). In this case you can charge with 2 cavalry stands (and with a character in a theory) but COK may strike back with 2 attacks only. So their bonus that can be applied in the 1st round only is lost. Most probably you win here. 2nd and subsequent rounds go as usual.