AI Apocalypse?

[Easy e]

With the Manta and the Harbinger, there seems to be some desire for big games with big aircraft. 

I have been thinking about this, and am ting to ponder making an AI  Apocalypse ruleset that would allow you to field larger aircraft, squadrons, deadly weapons, command checks etc.  Essentially, it would scale up AI.

There may not be a need for this at all.  However, since I am in the early stages of thinking it through, what would you want to see as far as mechanics, rules, aircraft, weapons, etc.?

[Kelsik]

Ya just knew id be quick to get in on this topic.     In all table top games that use a points system per unit  youll have issues where some units are just too expensive for the size game your playing.  AI is a challenge since aircraft over 10 hit points come with a hefty price tag,  the manta show room stock gear come to 96 pts.    its the price of about 5 fighters. 
For most of the AI  scenarios from the rule books have suggested point values for both attacker and defender around 100 to 200 points.  On points alone would have games where 1 manta vs a mob.  they may be fun at first but could get old after a few attempts.   
We could raise the points for a game,  but that runs the risk of havint too many modles to manage.
We could introduce new and exotic weapons that do multi point damage to bring down the  airborn behemoths.  Each of these weapons could be very costly to keep swarm size down to a reasonable amount and still be a serious threat to a super heavy. 
( Eldar Void Specter comes to mind)   Tau would likly counter by upgrading thier firecontrol for thier rail cannons to fire on airborn super heavies.
Orks,  more blasta bombers and many grot bombs.
Chaos  has the harbinger but its not a anti air platform and no matter how I look at that airframe,  it will never be anything else than a heavy bomber.
Imperium should bring the storm bird out of retirement.

For multi super heavies on the field at the same time.  special rules?  like what?  I mean what else is necessary beside of the core rules? 
Over the fall campaign ill be gathing data on this topic  as I have 5 mantas available to test out theory.
It will be entertaining to figure out what tweeks  will be needed.

[Easy e]

One way I was thinking to level the playing field between super-heavies and smaller craft was to be able to purchase aircraft in Squadrons.  These squadrons would have some rules for coherency, a "Command Check" instead of pilot checks, and one maneuver card for the entire squadron instead of individual aircraft. 

[Zelnik]

There are several issues with such ideas.


1. The miniatures in question are already on epic scale. The Harbinger Bomber and Manta are GIGANTIC craft, and usually represent a special mission themselves to destroy. Making the game any more epic would be redundant!

2. Major engagements like your talking about usually are just not undertaken by most of the factions.  If they are, you can easily scale up the game. 

3. Part of the grace of the game is that it is simple to learn, and difficult to master. The rules are elegant and comprise a sum total of sixteen pages in the rule book.  Adding sweeping rules to it is dangerous and could bog an already complex game down.

4. The game has a flow to it. It is fast paced and action intensive.  The best way to work with this is to stay within the established rules and work from there. I would suggest making "ace maneuvers", special maneuvers that only Ace pilots can undertake (making taking the upgrade more worth while.

[Kelsik]

There are several issues with such ideas.


1. The miniatures in question are already on epic scale. The Harbinger Bomber and Manta are GIGANTIC craft, and usually represent a special mission themselves to destroy. Making the game any more epic would be redundant!

I would like to see a few more big boys hit the table top.



3. Part of the grace of the game is that it is simple to learn, and difficult to master. The rules are elegant and comprise a sum total of sixteen pages in the rule book.  Adding sweeping rules to it is dangerous and could bog an already complex game down.

I couldnt aggree with you more on this point.  AI was easy to learn, it plays fast enough.  Adding complex rules to handle a new aircraft type may slow the game down and make it more confusing.  The method ive focused on to handle the introduction of multi super heavies was to work on weaponry with multi hit capability,  D-6 hit weapons dont require changes to the core rules of the game and offer sufficient threat to super heavies.  Cost of the upgunned fighters could very well be the equilizer to the high cost of the super heavy that the weapon was ment to take down.   
Tau counter to the Harbinger  would be to update the fire control on the Tigershark a-10 to use its railguns on low manuver  aircraft.    In this case the cost of the Tigershark should go up to reflect its new capability,  as a ballpark figure,  say 15-20 pts.    This would keep the model count  down and allow the fighter force with out super heavies the ability to threaten a super heavy.

[Easy e]

The best way to work with this is to stay within the established rules and work from there. I would suggest making "ace maneuvers", special maneuvers that only Ace pilots can undertake (making taking the upgrade more worth while.

Totally agree.  If you are interested in expanded Ace rules, take a look at the Investigation of Bin Mazar campaign book in my sig.  Click my sig to get there.  It deals with pilots gaining experience and gaining "Ace Skills", or just outright purchasing different levels of Ace in Squadron selection. 

I would be interested on your thoughts on them.

As for AI Apoc.  I agree that Squadrons could make the game too complex.  That's why it would be a delicate thing.  Bigger weapons just potentially leads to an arms race and can get kinda boring.   I would like people to be able to choose the option they want. 

Plus, bigger games creates incentive to buy more models, thereby helping FW make $$$ on AI, which could lead to more AI dev work and models.