Melee opponent dying in magic phase

[frogbear]

Hi all. Had an unusual situation yesterday that I wanted to ask about.

I had a whole unit charge a single stand of harpies in the initiative phase. In the magic phase i killed that one stand with the volcanic eruption spell (chaos dwarves).

So what now happens to my unit that is out in no-mans land? Do they stay there or do they count as defeating their enemy?

Problem is that i charged them to kill the stand and then i was going to use their resolution to move back 3d6. In this case they were then presented as easy targets for my opponents cavalry/monsters.

Did we play it right by saying that my unit could not do anything since their opponents died in the magic phase and did mot make the combat phase?

[Big Red]

The spell description states:

 "Engaged units carry over any hits scored into the first round of combat and hits caused by the Volcanic Eruption count as having been struck in the combat itself."


Would that have had a bearing on how the end result of your combat would've been?  As in, due to the fact that the hits are counted as having been struck in the combat phase, even though your troops didn't actually strike anyone, are you still in combat etc, when the spell effects actually happen??

Or am I reading too much into the last part of the spell description - should I just be thinking that the hits are carried over - as  per normal - into the combat phase but as you killed the stand/s with a spell, there is nothing to carry over into the combat phase and therefore no combat has actually happened?

[jchaos79]

In my opinion spell description is clear.

You hold the result of hits until combat phase. In combat phase dwarves strike first, then chaos has the chance to fight and inflicts hits to dwarves. The combat will be over because the chaos unit is destroy by the hits of the spell + dwarves.

Dwarves has won the combat and could fall back, stay or advance.

[Guthwine]

Hmm a difficult one, Id say the unit counts as being destroyed in the first round and the dwarves can advance or fallback. (Without the harpies striking back) Kinda like stand and shoot but for the attacking side.

But Chaos has a point as well.

[Edmund2011]

"Engaged units carry over any hits scored into the first round of combat and hits caused by the Volcanic Eruption count as having been struck in the combat itself."

Reading the description seems the spell is cast in the shooting phase and the effect solved in the combat phase.

IMO all the hits count during in combat. So i think both units fight and add the volcano attacks, but it is a good question.

[frogbear]

The issue is that the unit carries the wounds into the combat phase. Problem with that is the init has ceased to exist in the shooting phase and dies not make the combat phase. so i am not sure either way

I summon LEX!

[spiritusXmachina]

I would also vote for the version that this spell's resolution is carried over into the combat phase, so that the CDs may advance or fall back. All else seems unduly harsh to me.
Of course that would also mean the same applies to spells like Fireball and the like. Important is that this is a big exception to the way spells are handled normally and that the spell is described with "...hits count as having been struck in the first round of combat...".
It won't happen too often I guess...

[jchaos79]

I think/guess that the one who made the list, put this sentence in order to make the spell unique and differenciate to other magic lists.

 "Engaged units carry over any hits scored into the first round of combat and hits caused by the Volcanic Eruption count as having been struck in the combat itself."

[spiritusXmachina]

Not too unique:
Ball of Flame (Empire): ... Engaged units cannot be driven back by the Ball of Flame but carry over any hits scored into the first round of combat; any hits scored count as having been struck in the combat itself.

You'll find the same sequence in the Dark Elf's Doom Bolt or the Araby's Sunstrike. Maybe there are others I do not remember...

This is the wording of the 2007 Army List and as far as I know this change was done by the man RP himself. This was a consequence of the similar change that was done concerning cannon balls that would bounce into combat by coincidence.

[jchaos79]

good point

[frogbear]

I will try again...

I summon Lex! 

[Lex]

The issue is that the unit carries the wounds into the combat phase. Problem with that is the init has ceased to exist in the shooting phase and dies not make the combat phase. so i am not sure either way

I summon LEX!

The interpretation by Red is corrrect AFAMOG. In this case the Spell´s MECHANICS clearly state WHEN to apply the hits (1st round of combat). So fight that round of combat (including the Harpies fighting!!) and apply the results as per the standard combat rules.

[Lex]

I will try again...

I summon Lex! 

Yeagyeag..  I was lounging under the palmtrees of Varadero (Cuba) enjoying a nice breeze (Isaac)

[frogbear]

Sooo jealous!