About skirmishers and empire brigades

[jchaos79]

Just thinking about empire brigade formations. Skirmishers gives the oportunity of having a long battle line. Also if you take 3 of them it allow something like having a brigade of five units. Counting the fifth unit as 3 stands of 4 3 6+ per 75 point... but you loose flexibility in the movement as the stands belongs to the four units composing the brigade.

It seems a long time since I did play with empire, but here are some ideas to use skirmishers.


General look of different set of empire formations


Formation 1. Not very interesting but great looking


Formation 2 and 3. Firepower


Formation 4. The more interesting

Any ideas of how to use skirmishers? or how they behave in combat?

do you have good or bad experiences with this troops?

[empireaddict]

I am mostly unimaginative in my use of Skirmishers.  I tend to keep my Halberdiers in a brigade together in columns with their Skirmishers at the front. 

Then, on the advice of one or two old hands, if I'm on the attack I launch charges from just under 20cm so that they arrive in columns without having to maximise frontage.

On defence, the casualties come off the back of the column and you retain the extra attack.  I have also noticed that the presence of the Skirmishers does make opponents think twice and calculate their chances more before attacking.

I've never used Skirmishers with Bowmen.  You pay the same points but don't get an armour save.

My only concern is that I'm not convinced that they are worth the 25 points.  I also wonder whether I'd be better off using 2 more Halberdier units for less than the cost of 4 Skirmishers.  However, they don't increase the brigade size and so don't impose additional command requirements.

I'd also be interested to hear peoples' thoughts on this subject.

[forbes]

Last time I played Empire, I added the Skirmishers to the Flagellants. Mainly to give the flagellants a bit more staying power - as they are hard hitting, but die quickly. As they must follow up the Flagellants tend to get chewed up pretty quickly, but the skirmishers let them soak up more damage. Also the 25pts seems more worthwhile when compared to 1/3 of a flagellant unit, rather than halberdiers.

I also wonder if by putting the skirmisher stand at the back, facing backwards, it gives you nearly 360 vision, handy for clearing out pesky flyers that land behind your line!

I have tried them with the halberdiers - this time at the front to give the +1 attack - it sort of works, but they are still pretty weak.

[jchaos79]

Didn't tthought about 360º until now.  It seems like the work for skirmishers is that. I think that rules allow to do it.

[Lex]

Didn't tthought about 360º until now.  It seems like the work for skirmishers is that. I think that rules allow to do it.

Actually this is what I always do with my Trollslayers when they move a TSBBQ around !

Remember there are NO penalties for a unit with stands facing both ways, as long as the formation of the unit is a regular formation (iow Line or Column), other then HALVING its ordered movement and that charges on initiative (which you would want against flyers on your 6) are full movement.


Yeah, as I usually do this for units guarding (and thus moving) with Artillery I meant in that context !!

[honestmistake]

Lex. I'm pretty sure that you are not correct about the no penalty for mixed facings thing:
4. Units arranged in a straight line with all their
stands facing in the same direction and butted
edge-to-edge move at full pace unless in a fortified
position, as noted earlier. Units in a line are said to
be in a regular formation.
and:
5. All units in other formations or circumstances
move at half pace. For example, infantry are able to
move up to 10cm, cavalry up to 15cm and so on.
This represents the fact that the unit is out of
regular formation and that it is necessary to
regroup in order to move. For convenience, we
refer to all these formations as irregular. Note that
the only situation where an irregular formation
moves at full pace is when it charges or evades.
(page 22 of living rules PDF. marked page 20)

Surely this means that the unit will be moving half pace (unless the unit out of formation/facing the wrong way is the skirmisher?


As for how I use skirmishers... I tend to put them with flagellants and brigade 2 units of those with 2 units of missile troops (missiles in front, skirmishers at either wing to increase visibility for the flagellants. this makes it much easier to protect the nut-cases on the advance while keeping flexibity to attack.

[jchaos79]

when they move a TSBBQ around !

sorry Lex, but... what is that (TSBBO) mean?

[jchaos79]

@Honest mistake, I think you are saying the same as Lex.

Skirmisher stand do not count to the unit in order to be regular or irregular formation, so I think it could be looking backwards.

Also interesting brigade 2 shoot + 2 flagellant + 2 sk = 110 + 140 + 50 = 300

[honestmistake]

@Honest mistake, I think you are saying the same as Lex.

Skirmisher stand do not count to the unit in order to be regular or irregular formation, so I think it could be looking backwards.

Not quite the same unless i have misread the rule. Skirmishers are ignored when establishing whether a formation is regular or not but in the case of Lex's troll Slayers there is no skirmisher and thus, if one faces the wrong way, the unit would count as irregular regardless of what actual shape the formation was.

[Lex]

See Mistakes post above. !   (and the edit to mine !!)

The Troll Slayer BBQ  has one (sometimes 2) units of TS around when it move, who are in IRREGULAR formation (with one stand facing backwards), which is OK as half normal infantry move = arty move, so it does not matter and the unit still has FULL move on charge

[Claus]

@Honestmistake

Skirmisher do have 360° of view meaning they have no Front or Back as they view in any direction.
That´s why you can stand and shot in any direction or charge in any direction with the unit the skirmishers are attached as long as the skirmisher can draw line of sight.

Regards
Claus

[Edmund2011]

In WM Skirmishers (Empire Infantery stands) don't see 360º. That is a WMA rule.

In the WM Pistoliers, Wolfriders, etc cannot see 360º (to charge, etc), but they can shoot 360º


Also remember that if you have a unit of halbardiers with a skirmisher stand added, if you decide to remove one halbardier stand as casualty, the unit will suffer -1 to Command.