Warmaster Playsheet

[Ole]

Hi,

since in our local gaming group was always the problem of using the Warmaster Ancients Rules but with the Magic and Flyer rules etc. Looking up rules in 4 different sources ain't cool.

So I decided to write a play sheet. I would love to hear your comments. Especially on mistakes.

I attached the Version 4.1

Cheers

Ole

[jchaos79]

Don't know what to say. If the document contain your house rules and all your players agree it is OK. Great. The document has a splendid presentation and I can see a great effort and work beyond it.

But at a quick glance of 2 minutes, I think there are important WMAncient rules missing in your document.

As I understood you have taken the core of the WMA and then add the Blue colour lines to adapt to fantasy, do you?

IMHO the important thing is to have fun and know what are you playing... WM or WMA or your own set of mixed rules.

I like in my games take a book in my hand (WMA or Living rules or WM or BOFA, or WMMedieval) and say: Hey we are playing to this. And use this book for the game and for consult if there are doubts, because there are a lot of little/main rules changes that can stop a game or ruined it if each player is thinking in a different ruleset. I mean knowing what you are playing is important.

[Ole]

Thank you for moving it to the right spot.

your are right Warmaster Acients is writen in black, Warmaster is writen in blue the update are red or green and the house rules are kind of yellowish.

Would you invest 2 more minutes to write down those missing but important rules?

[jchaos79]

Of course, the investment of two minutes is not lack of interest, it is because taking care of a baby gives you very little spare time. And this kind of comparison requiers time and a little bit of mind-toughness to have in mind the two rulesets at once.

I am not going to explain the whole rules, just take a note of attention to the ones I see (it doesn't means there is not other missing rules that I did not see)

Also I am not very friend to re-write rules. Ruleset are written by his author in a very formal way to avoid misinterpretation, so re-written the rules is open a window to mess up the rules and start the polemic in the group, if the rulebook say something but the summary of rules abreviated could be interpreted other way could be a problem.

said my point of view, let's start:

1) If you want to use WMA one of the main important rules that I see it is missing is Command Penalties, the real heart of the game-engine: -1 for exposed flank or rear.

2) Charge, another slight but important difference is that in WMA the charge is proceed in a different way than WM. Choose the charger closest stand and can choose the stand of the target unit. Rick explain it better than me.
Another important rule I did not see is that when the charging unit is in the front side but all the front of the enemy is blocked by friendly units, it must charge to corner to corner. A thing that was forbiden in WM. This kind of things can decide a game.

3) I miss in your document, line of sight. All units in WMA has a limitation of LOS of 60cm (I am writting by heart, maybe 80?) cann't remember now

4) Commanders --> there is no a real thing, but in III add - unless chariot or monster mount (blue ink)

5) Making way --> when making way it is possible to dispose your unit in array to give support each other.

6) Blunder, subordinates have +1 in the blunder chart. That is really very subjetive because in fantasy there is no estrictly the figure of a subordinate

7) Withdraw: in b) you put in greenish colour of houserul, but I think is a real rule of WMA.

8 ) Did not see the limitation of two rounds of combat (one of most famous differences)... I guess is in your document but I miss it.

9) I miss deployment 90cm instead 80cm.

I will re read WMA when I have little time and take another check to your document, to see If I can help/ lend you a hand to complete it.


By the way, and just to say my opinion: I will recomend using WMA from page 1 to page 80. Then add the chapters of WM: Magic + flying things + artillery machines + armylist. It is that simple to say. It means that all the players had to make the effort to read carefully WMA form page 1 to 80, and do not read as "I know I know, I will skip that parragraph..." because if Rick need 80 pages to tell the thing, is difficult to summarize it in 3! Anyway... just is my humble opinion, and It is a real good work you made it here.

regards

[Edmund2011]

@Ole, nice document, I find it useful to consult WM and WMA rules

I add some I remember now, for completness.

- Remember that supporting units count as part of the combat: they can do a supporting charge, and can not be fired at while giving support.

- Narrow based shooting units (Artillery, cavalry with bows, etc) can only shoot towards the front (not 45º)


 

[jchaos79]

is WMA artillery destroy if it is force to retreat by arrows more than its movement? I think the answer is yes (not sure).

In WM list artillery move 10cm, but in WMA move 20cm. Usign WMA core rules artillery is easy to destroy with arrow+boltspell

[Ole]

Thank you for all the input.

My intention writing this thing was not to create a new set of rules but a playshet wiht all the updates put in a proper place. That's why I added the Page Reference to every topic. I'm only playing warmaster once a month and having other things in mind I tent to reread the rules the night before. So it's more about the little things like LOS or Reforming. But not the mayor things like 2 Rounds of combat or support.

Playing the WMA rules with fantasy armies is about carrying a lot of books and being shirty about not knowing where to look.

1) If you want to use WMA one of the main important rules that I see it is missing is Command Penalties, the real heart of the game-engine: -1 for exposed flank or rear.

Because of having flyers in some armies we left this one out.

2) Charge, another slight but important difference is that in WMA the charge is proceed in a different way than WM. Choose the charger closest stand and can choose the stand of the target unit. Rick explain it better than me.
Another important rule I did not see is that when the charging unit is in the front side but all the front of the enemy is blocked by friendly units, it must charge to corner to corner. A thing that was forbiden in WM. This kind of things can decide a game.

Thats one of this things the Rulebook is for but not the Playsheet.

3) I miss in your document, line of sight. All units in WMA has a limitation of LOS of 60cm (I am writting by heart, maybe 80?) cann't remember now

It's 60cm indeed. Since it was new to me I must have overread it almost every time. That reduces the charging distance for flayers to 60cm, does it not?

4) Commanders --> there is no a real thing, but in III add - unless chariot or monster mount (blue ink)

Will do.

5) Making way --> when making way it is possible to dispose your unit in array to give support each other.

That's something I'll reread.

6) Blunder, subordinates have +1 in the blunder chart. That is really very subjetive because in fantasy there is no estrictly the figure of a subordinate

Because of that I throw it out. Same as Scythed chariots and elephants.

8 ) Did not see the limitation of two rounds of combat (one of most famous differences)... I guess is in your document but I miss it.

Combat results page 3.

9) I miss deployment 90cm instead 80cm.

What do you mean by deployment?

- Narrow based shooting units (Artillery, cavalry with bows, etc) can only shoot towards the front (not 45º)

is WMA artillery destroy if it is force to retreat by arrows more than its movement? I think the answer is yes (not sure).

In WM list artillery move 10cm, but in WMA move 20cm. Usign WMA core rules artillery is easy to destroy with arrow+boltspell

That's a interesting point. If we would play like jchaos79 and I agree using the first 80 pages of WMA adding the fantasy stuff, the only artillery rules are coming form the fantasy rules since the are no warmaschines in ancients time.

The question is use WMA and WM Medieval as one ruleset or do you use them as two?
Cheers

Ole

[Ole]

7) Withdraw: in b) you put in greenish colour of houserul, but I think is a real rule of WMA.

Sorry I must have mist number 7.

I double checked it but it's not in the WMA Rulebook. There for is't a housserule, even a widely spread one.

Cheers

Ole

[Edmund2011]

It is in the official Warmaster Ancients Rules Update pdf

7) Withdraw: in b) you put in greenish colour of houserul, but I think is a real rule of WMA.

Sorry I must have mist number 7.

I double checked it but it's not in the WMA Rulebook. There for is't a housserule, even a widely spread one.

Cheers

Ole

[jchaos79]

is WMA artillery destroy if it is force to retreat by arrows more than its movement? I think the answer is yes (not sure).

In WM list artillery move 10cm, but in WMA move 20cm. Usign WMA core rules artillery is easy to destroy with arrow+boltspell

I take a look to the rulebook, and WMA says that artillery move 10cm. When I said 20cm I was thinking in the cannon of the armylists of WMM.

[jchaos79]

I mean deployment the distance between armys when the games starts.

[Ole]

Hi,

I did my homework and updated the playsheet with your suggestions.

Please tell me your thoughts.

Cheers

Ole

[Ole]

Updatet and rearranget the play sheet to 4.1

Comments welcome

Ole 

[Kealios]

Very nice. I'll give this a run-through myself to see what I can find - but I've been working on meshing my WMA and WM rules, so this is a godsend!

*
P1 - In the header "Artillery & Machines", the word Artillery is misspelled...

P2 - you left out the Command Penalty of enemy to the Flank or Rear from Ancients...I can see why you kept it out (see above) but it looks pretty important...

  - Also, under "Evade", point V, you need a space in the second line between "evaders" and "to"

P4 - Pursuit/Advance: It might be worth noting that the Pursuit advantage for a 3rd combat does carry over into the next player's turn (WMA p61, under "Unresolved Combat)

  - Under "Pursuit Attack" in the right column, some misspellings:
*raound [round[
*intis [??]
*subsepuent [subsequent]
*frist [first]
*tound [round]

  - Under "Enemy Facing Own Side...", a space is needed in the 2nd Green Text line between "This" and "penalty"

P5 - I just found it humorous that you kept the WMA Blunder chart instead of the Warhammer-flavored version

  - Right column, "Movement" is misspelled (it says "movment")
  - Point II and Point IV both misspell "Flying (they say "Fyling"
  - Point V misspells "capabillity" [capability] and "typ" [type] - also a comma belongs after "capability"

P6 - "Artillery and Machines" is misspelled again, same as in the Table of Contents on p1.
  - You start the numbering as Point III (carried over, perhaps, from "Characters" on the previous page?) instead of Point 1. Regardless, 3rd line, "a" needs to be capitalized.
  - Point IV, [point 2] you misspelled "maschines" [machines]

  - "Artillery in Combat", you have two "Point I"'s.
  - Point 2 (which is really #3), correct "os" to "of"

  - "Terrain", Point II, "machines" is misspelled again

  - Right Column, under "The Battle Ends", "Turn" is misspelled in the first line.


Lastly, the page numbers should be reversed. Page 2, move it from the lower right to the lower left corner, and then alternate. I say this because when printed double sided, the page numbers as they are appear on the inside corners, instead of the outside corners like a book would usually have. This is just a recommendation, however, based on preference.

Sorry for the pickiness - such a beautiful document should be cleaned up a bit to reflect how awesome it is, and I'm an editor at heart   Cannot wait for this to hit the battlefield for me!