Charging and stand & shoot - a question

[jchaos79]

Hi, this weekend I had a game with Edmund, empire vs dwafs and we have a doubt about a combat situation.

A unit of dwarves advance (carring 3 hits from the first combat) to the flank of a brigade compose of two unit of halberdiers and a crossbowman.

The pic of the situation is



The crossbowman shoot 1 hit when the dwarves take contact. They have lucky and inflict the 4 wound, so the stand in contact with the crossbowman is automatical removed before the stand could hit in hand to hand combat.

The question is: did the dwarf stand, that is supporting, take the place of his fallen camarades and attack to the crossbowmen? or they still supporting and the crossbowmen has save his lives because their success in the stand and shoot?

hope the question is undestood, if not, let me know and I will try to rewrite the situation

[azrael71]

crossbows don't get 360 degree shooting so no initial S&S.

[jchaos79]

Dwarves are in the line of sight of shooting. Dwarves are over the horizontal front line, so we think the crossbowman could see them. That is fantasy not ancient set of rules.

But anyway, we could imagine that the corssbowman are goblin wolf raider, did the support dwarf stand go to replace the remove dwarf stand in the battle line or remain supporting?

[Claus]

@Azrael

On picture it looks like that X-bowmen are looking into proper direction and that charging/advancing dwarfs are surpassing the 180° view line of the X-bowmen. So the S&S is possible.

Given this as precondition the dwarfs have to remove 1 stand and as the rule says to maximise allways the base contact when charging (advancing in new combat is a charge) the on the pic supporting dwarf stand has to get in contact with hellabardiers as it is a charge.

Regards
Claus

[Guthwine]

You finish the charge, resolve S&S hits and take away one stand of your choosing. (Stand 1 or 3)

You cannot move stands around after you charged, you just remove the supporting stand for example and are still in full contact with the units you wanted to kill.

About LOS I am totally on Azraels side, if they came from behind and where not visible to the unit during the charge but only when they came in contact then there should be no S&S. But we already discussed this.

[spiritusXmachina]

Wow, so many opinions!

I am perfectly with Claus here! The destroyed stand is removed and replaced by stand number 3 - as long as they still have enough movement (that's why it is helpful to resolve stand and shoot before the charging unit is moved). If necessary I could try to look for the appropriate text in the rulebook when I'm home again.

@Azrael & Guthwine: Of course the crossbowmen have stand and shoot as the dwarfs moved over the line of sight when being positioned.

And it is not ok (and in the above example not even possible) to first touch an attacked stand and then shift sidewards (just in case a wise player would try to avoid being seen). And if only for determining the real movement distance.

[Guthwine]

You may be right on the LOS issue even though its makes avoiding the S&S attacks impossible for most units but moving stands after you have charged is definetly wrong.
After resolving S&S hits, the attacker can choose which stands of his unit gets destroyed. There is no obligation to destroy a stand in base contact with the enemy. So the dwarfs just choose to destroy stand 1 and keep attacking with the other 2. Its alot simpler than moving things afterwards and it has exactly the same effect.

[spiritusXmachina]

That point you're right, Guthwine.

[Lex]

Shooting hits in this case are NOT per stand, and as stated above the Dwarf player CAN choose to take out any of the stands

And yes, getting "over the line" during any part makes them a target

And just to clear up and makesure. The last Dwarf stand in the picture would NOT make contact when lining up to the left OR the right and as such CAN be placed in support!!
And yes, that DOES mean that the Dwarf player COULD elect to take out either that BACK stand, OR the one in contact with the Xbows.

As the charging is done on a "per unit"  base, taking out a stand COULD open up room for other units to contact !!