null

[iamspartacus]

changed and moved.

[Aquahog]

I look forward to seeing more.

[iamspartacus]

Changed and moved.

[iamspartacus]

The Setting

So imagine the laws of physics and the universe were partially based on medieval understandings of them. 
Worlds are flat, making up the backs of essentially alive creatures slowly swimming through space, orbited by a star.  Known science and physics is much simpler.  There are only four elements, and psuedo-science is in many cases real science.  Mankind sails through the deep sky (space) in ships made of a combination industrial revolution era technology, weird science, and mys-tech, ancient advanced mystery technology that forms a cornerstone of space travel, discovered occasionally in ancient wreckage and compatible with most forms of energy input. 
Without it, space travel becomes exponentially more difficult, and serves as a limiting factor to the size of a nation's sky navy.  Needless to say, captured enemy ships are highly prized.

Space is a constantly upward rushing current of wind, dust, and gas from some universal center.  This simulates 'gravity' as everything is pushed upward at roughly the same general speed.  Space is rich in cryogiston, a supernaturally cold element that, when compressed at high temperature, becomes phlogiston (plasma).
Thus, you have ship engines that are simultaneously plasma engines and steam boilers.
Space is more akin to the ocean.  Great creatures swim out in the deep places between worlds, and asteroid fields are more like coral reefs, though life is much more sparse and mostly inedible.  Naturally occurring 'currents' are randomly agitated into existence between two systems.  It is a little understood science but it is known that it depends on distance and the particular alignment of the stars.  A rapidly moving current of gas and cryogiston is created from one world to the other, and fleets can move through it as long as it lasts, though they risk being stranded in deep space should the current calm itself.

Ships that possess a strategically valuable mystech 'stream key' can artificially aggravate a current into existence.  Space is much smaller in scale.  Worlds are generally about a quarter of the surface area of our own, and stellar distances a fraction of actual space, though still incredibly vast. 

The Carthacian Empire is the sail ships, and represents the vastly dominant power in known space.
They are culturally closest to a mix of Spanish conquistadors and Roman empire.

The Moren Confederation is the WW1 style ships, just coming out of subjugation to the Carthacians and eager to expand their own dominion.  They are culturally diverse, but the main population is more or less typical Victorian era style with a bit of Jewish influence.

The Allied Kingdoms of Zant are the civil war era ships and represent a breakoff faction from the Carthacians that has had a turbulent relationship with them for centuries of war and collaboration.  Think French and British, for example.  Their culture is mostly based on various medieval style fiefdoms banded together for common protection.

The Banfirar are the space vikings.  They are a culture whose ancient gods long ago forbade them from ever making permanent residence on a world.  They live hidden and ekking out a rough life in space and see using mystech as sacrilege, therefore their ships are the most primitive.  They exist on hunting, trade, and raiding, and their culture is a mix of vikings and gypsies.
 
Here are some art concept WIPs.
http://www.4shared.com/download/S_07VqTo/acw.png?tsid=20131113-230133-e2cf9eac
http://www.4shared.com/download/cpDEq_12/destroyers.png?tsid=20131113-230151-9f98cd5b
http://www.4shared.com/download/OONA3bLG/duel1.png?tsid=20131113-230204-438a7759
http://www.4shared.com/download/t5xd6nFH/frigates.png?tsid=20131113-230218-fa72ccf4
http://www.4shared.com/download/qJaeey_d/viking.png?tsid=20131113-230232-112f94c0

Curious to hear thoughts and reactions.

[iamspartacus]

changed and moved.

[iamspartacus]

One thing with 'ordnance' is that I wanted to try something a bit different with them.  Each relevant ship comes loaded with, say, three markers to a bay, or torpedo salvos to a prow.  Its powerful, but limited 'shots' if you destroy them.

Screening is a bit different too.  The way BFG did it was never a favorite rule of mine, for instance, with LD checks and apparently very rebellious crew/targeting system.  You can shoot past the nearest ships, but if your los from stem to stem to the target crosses another ship's base, you suffer a screening negative to your roll.
One of the things I did also to help escorts be valued truly as escorts, being able to protect the ships behind them from fire.
 

[iamspartacus]

I welcome negative thoughts too, no comments just makes me wonder if its a TL:DNR scenario and I need to work on more paragraphs and bold lettering.

[Aquahog]

Sorry, it's my daughter's first birthday and we're having a big party tomorrow. I'll read it when rl has sorted itself.

[Aquahog]

OK, I took a look and here are some spontaneous first thoughts:

Personally I think the bases would look better if the compass was inverted, i.e. had trenches rather than ridges. That may be tricky with mechanical integrity I guess?

Excellent idea to add in place for the extra peg from the start.

I like the finished escort. Nice plump shape and seems to sport good detailing.

Love the world background. It feels like there is plenty to spark your imagination and room for expansion. The factions aren't really popping for me, but that could be because the descriptions were so brief. Moren and Zant felt very similar until I went back and saw that the latter were a feudal alliance. The colored concept art is great and will surely reinforce the feel you're going for with each faction.

I can definitely see the Warmachine influences here which turns me off a bit unfortunately. Moving the critical hits to the weapons is great for expandability but you can easily end up with the bloated monster of special rules that is WarmaHordes. This seems to be commercially wise, but personally I prefer games with less special rules. There, I've said it.

Doing away with charts in favor of modifiers isn't a problem for me as long as the amount of modifiers is kept in line and are easy to remember. You do seem to have succeeded in keeping all the little specialties of BFG while indeed streamlining it from a play perspective. Without actually playing the game it's hard to say, but it's my feeling.

I've got mixed feeling about the ruler. While it definitely solves your problem, it's another piece of equipment to tag along, buy, not break etc. Of course, that is true for templates too.

Concerning overwatch, have you considered alternating activations?

Great solution to ordnance! Probably the optimal when you still have the freedom of design.

Loving that you will do something about screening too.

Closing comments: I started checking out this stuff mostly to be kind and give some feedback rather than actually planning to buy into it. After taking a closer look however, I'm starting to feel a small buzz. Looking forward to seeing this progress and to hear more about the factions and their history/cultures. The colored art and the picture of the miniature is your strongest selling point right now.

[iamspartacus]

I appreciate the response and reasoned thoughts!

OK, I took a look and here are some spontaneous first thoughts:

Personally I think the bases would look better if the compass was inverted, i.e. had trenches rather than ridges. That may be tricky with mechanical integrity I guess?

My artist thought the same. Two things, and this is just my thinking on the matter.  One, I was thinking that if you're across the table, raised lines would be easier to see quickly than depressed lines.  Secondly, the final bases will be black resin, but I know folks will want to drybrush detail the lines, and I figured raised would be easier than inking the depressions.  Its also slightly easier in the casting process, but thats minor if folks strongly favor one or the other.

Love the world background. It feels like there is plenty to spark your imagination and room for expansion. The factions aren't really popping for me, but that could be because the descriptions were so brief. Moren and Zant felt very similar until I went back and saw that the latter were a feudal alliance. The colored concept art is great and will surely reinforce the feel you're going for with each faction.

I just assumed folks would prefer a brief summary and wouldn't care too much about the fiction, but I do have much more.  At the core, the two groups have very different cultures and goals, but any developed civilizations with an economy of true worth pretty much have to band together to defend themselves from acquisition by the Empire.  This usually culminates in one or two truly meaningful factions creating a mini-empire with their more primitive 'allied cultures'.

I can definitely see the Warmachine influences here which turns me off a bit unfortunately. Moving the critical hits to the weapons is great for expandability but you can easily end up with the bloated monster of special rules that is WarmaHordes. This seems to be commercially wise, but personally I prefer games with less special rules. There, I've said it.

Fair enough.  Its been really hard balancing being intuitive with interesting complexity.  I can say that another reason I left out a crit hit chart is that it could be really random, and ultimately I want to encourage competitive play, since I really enjoy that environment.  I personally do enjoy a crit hit table.

The dice system so far seems to work pretty well.  There's a bit higher chance of both missing entirely or hitting with all weapons, but its balanced by available rerolls and defensive modifiers.

I've got mixed feeling about the ruler. While it definitely solves your problem, it's another piece of equipment to tag along, buy, not break etc. Of course, that is true for templates too.

You're right, it is best to just not have anything at all for those kind of issues. I do see it as a bonus to have something that no naval game has tried before, and I do feel the arcing turns add a lot to tactics from experience vs something like move-turn-move.  I can say that this ruler is in...about the eleventh printed version, about a thousand bucks and a year of development have gone into it so far to make it as durable and practical as possible.

Concerning overwatch, have you considered alternating activations?

I did consider it.  I can say that part of the reason I didn't go with it is simply because of no experience with the mechanic, thus no positive feelings toward it.  One positive of traditional turns seems to be that it makes tournament rules easier, like timed turns.
The current way the overwatch works is that, if a ship hasn't done any special orders or firing on its turn, it can designate a fire arc where it can shoot its weapons at the first enemy vessel that ends its movement within it.  Still leaves a bit of thought to it, and presents some interesting choices on the next player's turn on where to go.   

Great solution to ordnance! Probably the optimal when you still have the freedom of design.

Thanks, I tried a good while to make meaningful changes without 'changes for the sake of changing'.  For awhile there was a mechanic where the strike craft would run out of fuel, where you flip the token after a round to the 'red' side, then remove it if it hasn't reached a friendly bay to refuel.  It was to prevent spending turns massing for a giant wave, or just chilling behind an asteroid field to jump out, but it came down to KISS and I felt it was best to, well, keep it simple.

Closing comments: I started checking out this stuff mostly to be kind and give some feedback rather than actually planning to buy into it. After taking a closer look however, I'm starting to feel a small buzz. Looking forward to seeing this progress and to hear more about the factions and their history/cultures. The colored art and the picture of the miniature is your strongest selling point right now.

Ah, glad to hear it.  If it doesn't make folks excited its not worth doing.  If you liked the finished mini, it looks almost 100% like the 3d art before it was printed, so the WIP art gives a pretty good impression of the finished ships in that one link.  I actually am looking over about 15 pics right now that my friend, I guess you would call him my art director, sent me of DA artists that he thought did really great ship art.

[Aquahog]

I appreciate the response and reasoned thoughts!

No problem.

My artist thought the same. Two things, and this is just my thinking on the matter.  One, I was thinking that if you're across the table, raised lines would be easier to see quickly than depressed lines.  Secondly, the final bases will be black resin, but I know folks will want to drybrush detail the lines, and I figured raised would be easier than inking the depressions.  Its also slightly easier in the casting process, but thats minor if folks strongly favor one or the other.

Fair enough, they're definitely easier to paint on a black base if they're raised.

I just assumed folks would prefer a brief summary and wouldn't care too much about the fiction, but I do have much more.  At the core, the two groups have very different cultures and goals, but any developed civilizations with an economy of true worth pretty much have to band together to defend themselves from acquisition by the Empire.  This usually culminates in one or two truly meaningful factions creating a mini-empire with their more primitive 'allied cultures'.

I think I just got hung up on "Victorian" and "French and British" and figured, isn't that the same? At least during the Civil War era and WW1. A closer read through focusing on the other part of the descriptions made it a little clearer.

Fair enough.  Its been really hard balancing being intuitive with interesting complexity.  I can say that another reason I left out a crit hit chart is that it could be really random, and ultimately I want to encourage competitive play, since I really enjoy that environment.  I personally do enjoy a crit hit table.

The dice system so far seems to work pretty well.  There's a bit higher chance of both missing entirely or hitting with all weapons, but its balanced by available rerolls and defensive modifiers.

Being on the short end of the stick of an unlikely critical hit on the Bismarck in the opening turns of a Victory at Sea game of the battle of Denmark Strait I can appreciate your goal here.

You're right, it is best to just not have anything at all for those kind of issues. I do see it as a bonus to have something that no naval game has tried before, and I do feel the arcing turns add a lot to tactics from experience vs something like move-turn-move.  I can say that this ruler is in...about the eleventh printed version, about a thousand bucks and a year of development have gone into it so far to make it as durable and practical as possible.

Well, there's another reason to not include it in the first place I guess. Now you have to have it. However I'll take your word for it that it adds something special it to the game (or you probably wouldn't have worked so much with it.

I did consider it.  I can say that part of the reason I didn't go with it is simply because of no experience with the mechanic, thus no positive feelings toward it.  One positive of traditional turns seems to be that it makes tournament rules easier, like timed turns.
The current way the overwatch works is that, if a ship hasn't done any special orders or firing on its turn, it can designate a fire arc where it can shoot its weapons at the first enemy vessel that ends its movement within it.  Still leaves a bit of thought to it, and presents some interesting choices on the next player's turn on where to go.   

I see. I play both kinds of game and have no preference as long as it fits together in the game. 40k armies designed to cripple the opponent/win the game turn 1 before the opponent has had a chance to react would be the antithesis of this. Doesn't sound like this will be a problem anyway in your game.

Ah, glad to hear it.  If it doesn't make folks excited its not worth doing.  If you liked the finished mini, it looks almost 100% like the 3d art before it was printed, so the WIP art gives a pretty good impression of the finished ships in that one link.  I actually am looking over about 15 pics right now that my friend, I guess you would call him my art director, sent me of DA artists that he thought did really great ship art.

Great stuff!