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Author Topic: 'Skinkways' movement  (Read 5885 times)

Offline Carrington

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'Skinkways' movement
« on: October 19, 2009, 10:42:10 PM »
Is there a restriction on which way units move?  It struck me that Skinks/Terradons/salamanders actually fire more effectively from the flank than the front... and that it might be tempting to 'advance' them sideways rather than forward.

Never mind the dubious defensibility of a flanked column, am I right that 'skinkways' movement is legal?


Offline Lex

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Re: 'Skinkways' movement
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2009, 10:51:37 PM »
Yep

Offline jchaos79

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Re: 'Skinkways' movement
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2009, 01:47:33 AM »
I do not see the advantage of "skinkway" or moving in short edge. could you explain?

Offline CT Yankee

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Re: 'Skinkways' movement
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2009, 12:25:12 PM »
I do not see the advantage of "skinkway" or moving in short edge. could you explain?

Since they can shoot in any direction, this "skinkway" (put them in a column with the side towards the enemy, then move sideways) move gives them a smaller frontage, allowing them to better concentrate their fire - as with cavalry.  Also, any infantry that charges them will usually only be able to get two stands into contact.  If charged by cavalry, all three skink stands will usually be contacted, though this won't help the Skinks much. 

Two (or more) such units brigaded together make a good firebase and are deadly in S&S.  Also works well for Gutter Runners or any other infantry with "all around" shooting capabilities.
JJB

Offline Carrington

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Re: 'Skinkways' movement
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2009, 12:50:21 PM »
I do not see the advantage of "skinkway" or moving in short edge. could you explain?

Since they can shoot in any direction, this "skinkway" (put them in a column with the side towards the enemy, then move sideways) move gives them a smaller frontage, allowing them to better concentrate their fire - as with cavalry.  Also, any infantry that charges them will usually only be able to get two stands into contact.  If charged by cavalry, all three skink stands will usually be contacted, though this won't help the Skinks much. 

Two (or more) such units brigaded together make a good firebase and are deadly in S&S.  Also works well for Gutter Runners or any other infantry with "all around" shooting capabilities.

Sounds like a good idea to base these fellows diagonally then.

Offline jchaos79

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Re: 'Skinkways' movement
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2009, 12:53:55 PM »
But when cavalry charge touch the skinks... they are flanked -1 attack per base, right? So they are winning only few dice.

When normal shoot, I don't think that earns too much, because they shoot to the nearer, so I think doesn¡t matter if they are front or edge to the enemy

quote: I have never paly lizardmen or skavens, so my comment could be very bold... and bold words confuses with ignorance words ;)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 12:56:55 PM by jchaos79 »

Offline CT Yankee

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Re: 'Skinkways' movement
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2009, 01:25:21 PM »
But when cavalry charge touch the skinks... they are flanked -1 attack per base, right? So they are winning only few dice.

True, it doen't help them much vs. cavalry.  BUT, if you have two of them brigaded together the cav will contact both units and take 6 S&S attacks instead of just three; plus you'll have one more stand in contact.

When normal shoot, I don't think that earns too much, because they shoot to the nearer, so I think doesn¡t matter if they are front or edge to the enemy

But, if you have them brigaded, two units will have the same frontage as one unit nomally has.  Thus you will be more likely to be able to shoot both at one target unit.

quote: I have never paly lizardmen or skavens, so my comment could be very bold... and bold words confuses with ignorance words ;)

These are not big advantages - Just something you can use once in a while.
JJB

Offline spiritusXmachina

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Re: 'Skinkways' movement
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2009, 03:01:05 PM »
This formation has been known earlier as "E-formation" and was at that time very much discussed with Skeleton bowmen.

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Offline Carrington

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Re: 'Skinkways' movement
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2009, 03:11:23 PM »
This formation has been known earlier as "E-formation" and was at that time very much discussed with Skeleton bowmen.



Yes, except that this formation is expressly allowed -- the skinks are like reavers, or pistoliers.

But when cavalry charge touch the skinks... they are flanked -1 attack per base, right? So they are winning only few dice.

When normal shoot, I don't think that earns too much, because they shoot to the nearer, so I think doesn¡t matter if they are front or edge to the enemy

quote: I have never paly lizardmen or skavens, so my comment could be very bold... and bold words confuses with ignorance words ;)

As to bold/ignorance... this is just theorymaster for me at this point -- I'm not sure how well it actually works.  But it seems somewhat easier to put into practice than the undead E.

True enough on the cavalry charge.  That said, they're probably dead meat anyways, and at least their tighter frontage prevents them from being hoof-greased by two units of cav.  For what it's worth, I think the big weakness is not the -1 per stand, but the fact that they cannot receive the support modifier. Then there's always sitting flank-to in woods/cavalry impassible terrain.

As to the normal shoot, the fact that 10 shots can be concentrated to a frontage of 16cm makes it a good deal more easy to focus fire -- 3 expected hits on a 4+ armored unit (counting the salamender hits) kills a stand and drives it back, on average, 10cm -- probably out of initiative range.

My hypothesis is that 2 skink+sally units could focus fire on a single unit in a battleline, but I'd have to get out some stands (or graph paper) and play with the geometry. .
 
Gutter runners seem a particularly nasty unit.

Speaking of skink's crabwise formation, what's the maximum distance an infantry column can move at 90 degrees to its line of travel?

(Why Warmaster might be a cool teaching tool for 10th grade geometry).

« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 04:12:51 PM by Carrington »

Offline BlackEd

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Re: 'Skinkways' movement
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2009, 05:44:35 PM »
The only restriction on movement is whether or not the unit starts in irregular formation or not.  If they are all lined up in column, with a flank presented to the enemy, they are in regular formation.  Since they are in regular formation, they get their full move.

I like the sideways movement idea.

Dwarf Trollslayers were also discussed at one point.  Since the Trollslayers must initiative charge, someone asked if it was legal to turn them around so that their rear(S) were facing the enemy.  The trollslayers would have no LOS, and so had no initiative charge.  That also is legal.

Offline Stomm

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Re: 'Skinkways' movement
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2009, 10:23:55 PM »
Dwarf Trollslayers were also discussed at one point.  Since the Trollslayers must initiative charge, someone asked if it was legal to turn them around so that their rear(S) were facing the enemy.  The trollslayers would have no LOS, and so had no initiative charge.  That also is legal.

That might be legal, but its a really good way to literally hand the arse of your trollslayers to your opponent. And of course remember that initiative occurs before commanded movement...

Offline Claus

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Re: 'Skinkways' movement
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2009, 01:26:52 PM »
Brigade 2 units of Skinks, add each of them a Salamander and move the sidewards "Skinkway"

Voila....you have a nice Firepower of 10 Shots at 15cm range or 8 shots when doing S&S that gives -1 on armor save.
Beleave me ....every Warmaster will think twice of sending his heavy hitting Cavalry to attack them in the front.
In addition you get 5 attacks in close comabt.

In total this makes 15 attacks (10 of them with -1 armor save)

Not bad .... if you ask me.

Cheers
Claus