orc tactics

[jchaos79]

@ Shooting in different levels: As I see in a normal battle a unit always block line of sight. Going into siege and fortress chapter:
"If a player wishes to shoot at fortifications he can ignore the normal targeting rules and may shoot where he wants to within the normal limitations of range and sight. If you wish to shoot at troops that are on the ramparts of walls or towers then the normal shooting rules apply and no account is made of damage on the wall or tower itself." (page 91 siege section)

According with the rules you cannot shoot to higher level with your LoS blocked:
"Artillery stands can shoot over any obstacles including friendly stands, that occupy lower ground than the shooter or target" (page 67 artillery and machines section)

I do not know if there are changes of these rules in other rules versions


@ lilith about the pursuit: I can not imagine exactly the situation. There is a thread in the section of warmaster rules about charge and pursit (quite long but very interesting) that helps me to understand how to make the pursits correctly. Maybe will be interesant for you to read it. Or make a scheme with some image editor to answer you properly.

http://www.sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum/index.php?topic=38.0

[Stomm]

According with the rules you cannot shoot to higher level with your LoS blocked:

Yes you can.

"Artillery stands can shoot over any obstacles including friendly stands, that occupy lower ground than the shooter or target" (page 67 artillery and machines section)

You see the obstacle has to occupy lower ground than the shooter or target. If it merely said that obstacles had to occupy lower ground than the shooter, then your interpretation would be correct, but that is not what it says.

I do not know if there are changes of these rules in other rules versions

Thus far there have been no changes to the firing overhead rules, much to the annoyance of some people who would prefer to see reciprocal shooting and charging LoS, especially with regard to flyer LoS. But then if that happened, then flyers really would become very powerful indeed, as a dragon on a hill would literally be able to charge pretty much anything on the table. And a dragon can do a heck of a lot more damage than a unit or two of cannons, which after all would still be required to shoot at the closest target anyway, unlike an ordered charge from a flyer unit...

[jchaos79]

You see the obstacle has to occupy lower ground than the shooter or target. If it merely said that obstacles had to occupy lower ground than the shooter, then your interpretation would be correct, but that is not what it says.

Stomm, you are right. Now I see it clear. Then I was playing wrong. Thanks for clarifying.

[spiritusXmachina]

@Shooting: Maybe we just should use examples.

Let's take a unit of cannons standing upon a one-plain-hill. The next enemy unit (Chaos Marauders) is standing upon a two-plain-hill 40cm away (at the edge of the upper plain).

A) A unit of crossbowmen is standing in front of the cannons on ground level.
The cannon may clearly shoot at the Marauders or at enemy units on ground level if they are nearer.

B) A unit of crossbowmen is standing in front of the cannons 4cm away on the same level.
The cannon may shoot at the Marauders if it can draw a line of sight.

C) A unit of crossbowmen is standing directly in front of the cannons totally covering and touching all front edges of the cannons.
The cannon may not shoot at all as no area of their front edge is free.

Greetings,
Gerald

[Stomm]

B) A unit of crossbowmen is standing in front of the cannons 4cm away on the same level.
The cannon may shoot at the Marauders if it can draw a line of sight.

Assuming that the cannons are indeed facing said marauders, then they can draw line of sight to themdue to the firing overhead rules, and that of course is assuming that the crossbowmen aren't completely blocking LoS to any nearer targets at the same or lower level, and for that matter that the marauders are the closest eligible target.

C) A unit of crossbowmen is standing directly in front of the cannons totally covering and touching all front edges of the cannons.
The cannon may not shoot at all as no area of their front edge is free.

By that logic a stand doing S&S cannot fire once contacted, but it clearly states that such shooting may occur at any point during the charger's move. Which is of course why flank charged missile units stil get their full S&F, even if the charger started off behind the 180degree firing arc.


Basically all that unit of crossbowmen is doing as far as the FoH rules are concerned is acting as an object to be fired over. Whether they are flush with the front edge of the unit, 1cm or 10cm away makes no difference at all.

[spiritusXmachina]

So we agree in two out of three.
Let's leave it there and close this discussion - it's out of topic anyway.

[lilith]

how many orc and goblin unit is good to deploy at 2k ? the minimum (4 and 4) or maybe add some other unit to increase break point? i think for 60 point orc unit is good ,and the army cavalry isn't too much tough (max 5+ save ) but maybe more offensive.

[eastern barbarian]

boar boyz are great while attacking, I personally had them i na brigade of 3 units recently and they did quite good.
Also my personal recomendations is having two rock lobbers for 2k pts.

[David Wasilewski]

I love Orcs and Goblins - I rarely win with them but they are always fun to play. You need to expect them to spend half the game refusing to move (squabbling) - as long as you are happy to mentally visualise this and accept it, they are a great army. I tend to buy lots of goblins just for the break point and hang them well back from the line of battle (defending the rock lobbers if I buy any).

I always max out on Orc Warriors and Boar Boys - I have 12 units of each of these and if they can go in in a semi coherent block then expect a big mess!

I use the Wolf Boys to try and protect flanks and to expoit any gaping holes (not always with success). This is an army that I think stands a better chance with the higher end size of games (3K+). Smaller games, it is too easy to be flanked or rolled up just because a couple of brigades refused to move at a critical juncture.

Oh, and Giants............  They are a bit like elephants in the ancient world - they can win you the game or do very little!

Just my two penneth

Dave

[Carrington]

I use the Wolf Boys to try and protect flanks and to expoit any gaping holes (not always with success). This is an army that I think stands a better chance with the higher end size of games (3K+). Smaller games, it is too easy to be flanked or rolled up just because a couple of brigades refused to move at a critical juncture.

Oh, and Giants............  They are a bit like elephants in the ancient world - they can win you the game or do very little!

Just my two penneth

Dave

This is one of the interesting things about army balance -- the larger the army, the less the difference between the elf general's command of 10 and the Orc General's command of 8...  (Or maybe the greater the elf's temptation to max out dragon riders just to maximize the general's impact).