Master's Will - Special rule for Undead/Vampire armies

[Bel]

When a character is in touch with a unit (or with a unit brigaded with others) in a start of a Command phase, he can deduct his order roll by 1 when issuing an order to this unit (brigade). This bonus may be used once per turn and for the first character's order only. All required standard command penalties and restrictions apply.

Discuss?

[Lex]

Let me get this straight.

If a character joined a unit during the character movement part of his previous turn, and is still attached to that (or another unit due to applying rules on terrain) unit at the start of you (current) command phase, he gets a +1Ld when commanding that unit, or the brigade the unit is part of.

Positives:
- easier to bring up reserves, which for undead can be a bother
- easy to identify
- nice way to represent something that is fluffy

Negatives:
- attached characters are vulnerable
- make it +1 on Ld for commandrolls involving the unit joined. Remember the characters is NOT moved with unit, so that helps keeping track of it.

Rules considerations:
- Characters can not be joined to units during set-up, so no unfair 1st turn effect

I guess I could live with this

[jchaos79]

I have some questions,

Is it only applied to undead/vampire armies? so why? I mean, what is trying to represent that rule?

Maybe there is some warhammer background to explain it (I am not an expert in warhammer world background) 

[Bel]

- Yes, for undead/vampire characters only - in any fantasy background undead units highly depend of necromancer's will...
- The main intention is to counterbalance a bit the lack of initiative that is quite critical for these armies in Mittelspiel and Endspiel. Just try to playtest this rule.

[jchaos79]

- Yes, for undead/vampire characters only - in any fantasy background undead units highly depend of necromancer's will...

Ok, I get it.

- The main intention is to counterbalance a bit the lack of initiative that is quite critical for these armies in Mittelspiel and Endspiel. Just try to playtest this rule.

I will try then

[Bel]

In general this is an idea of positive modifiers that (who knows?) would be included in the rules in the far future. But this need a lot of playtesting, and Undead armies properly/naturally fit for this.

[captPiett]

Bel: For the vampire counts, do you think this new rule would deter players from taking ghouls? While I personally take them every time I play VC, I've read on the old forums that folks dislike them b/c they're too expensive for what they do. Given that their main strength is having initiative, will the new rule make them even less attractive, and hence extremely scarce in army lists?

[Bel]

original intention was to make the rule certainly for Undead units. But I would not restrict the Ghouls from using this rule bkz they may be included in the same brigade as undead units. Additional restriction will lead to unjustified complexity.

[spiritusXmachina]

And besides that: as the special -1 on dice roll may only be used once and only by one character this is only an addition for the natural initiative the Ghouls have.

[Bel]

Gerald please state clearly your thought - IIRC there were no restrictions regarding one character only and once per phase (meaning the cheesy movement alike 'chasing mice' is possible).

[spiritusXmachina]

I reread your rule. My mistake. I thought only one character might use this. 

[Claus]

Bel.

That´s very dangerous as....it would mean to break basic rules.

1)
During command phase no character is attached to any unit even if it were attached previous turn

2)
Undead and Vampire don´t get any penalty for enemies within 20 cm...saying this it would mean to have leadership 9 character in attacking range of enemy.

To be honest .... I´m no "Fan" of this rule. I twould give you 4 Leadership 9 heroes per turn...

Cheers
Claus

[Bel]

That´s very dangerous as....it would mean to break basic rules.

1)
During command phase no character is attached to any unit even if it were attached previous turn

Disagree. There is no any place in the rules that states the characters in the start of the Command phase automatically count as leaving the units they were joined before.
Just imagine the situation - the character was joined to the unit (his stand was touching the unit's stand). During the following command phase neither unit nor character moves. Does the character count as joined the unit in the following combat phase (say, when enemy advances into this unit)? I think yes.

2)
Undead and Vampire don´t get any penalty for enemies within 20 cm...saying this it would mean to have leadership 9 character in attacking range of enemy.

To be honest .... I´m no "Fan" of this rule. I twould give you 4 Leadership 9 heroes per turn...

This rule provides both advantages and disadvantages. I don't insist on еры wording - perhaps it needs some changes. The idea was summoned by our VC players' constant complaints  for the lack of initiative and following analysis of undead movement game mechanic. Anyway it requires a playtesting. Just try it in a game with an experienced opponent.

[Lex]

1)
During command phase no character is attached to any unit even if it were attached previous turn

Disagree. There is no any place in the rules that states the characters in the start of the Command phase automatically count as leaving the units they were joined before.
Just imagine the situation - the character was joined to the unit (his stand was touching the unit's stand). During the following command phase neither unit nor character moves. Does the character count as joined the unit in the following combat phase (say, when enemy advances into this unit)? I think yes.

[/quote]

Character is joined to a unit until the start of the players "next" turn. Even if units do not move, the character is no longer joined.

[Bel]

Lex I remember you said it me long enough and I have always played this way. But now I tried to find this place in the rules and found nothing. Perhaps it is a bug or my searching engine works incorrect 

Indeed this is not quite important - either the character is joined the unit or not (simply in touch). Let it be - 'unit within 1cm from character's stand' or  a sort (bearing in mind the original intention is that the characters are the points of issuing orders)