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Author Topic: Tyranid Concept(s)  (Read 2591 times)

Offline gribbly_horde

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Tyranid Concept(s)
« on: May 19, 2012, 10:02:23 AM »
We've had a sudden surge of interest in aeronautica imperialis round ours, and, whilst I'm more than happy with "Da Green Daemonz", having recently aquired an unhealthy tyranid habit, I was thinking about trying some draft rules, and would like advice...

Whilst BFG 'bio-starships' look cool, I don't just want 'bio-jetfighters'. We know what 'nid airpower is.

There are two 'aircraft' - the Harpy and Harridan.

There are gargoyles and shrikes, but I suspect they belong more in the realm of jump troops than dogfighters. Plus, I am not trying to attach an epic scale gargoyle to an AI flying stand.  ^&$!!! grot bombz are bad enough.

There is the meiotic spore. This is the easiest to do; it's essentially identical to the tau aerial mine, so use the same rules (and cost) to start with. Since the only model to represent it with is the spore mine, which is humungous in epic scale, its relative power could bear tuning up.



The question then is the harpy and harridan. The Harpy is best shelved to start with: It's a brood creature, subject to instinctive behaviour, and I'd rather duck the question of synapse to start with. The harridan, on the other hand, is independant and whilst not a synapse creature, doesn't need babysitting.

The harridan is a combination gunship and transport, in a gargantuan creature form.

Speed:
The big question mark, and supposedly why 'nids didn't make the grade for the rulebook. Can something with wings go supersonic? No. Tyranids shouldn't be making speed 9, or even 6. Can something with wings match the stall speed of a jet, speed 1 or 2? I don't see why not. Speed 3 is valkyrie/vulture speed - I'm less sure about that, and happy to take opinions.

Minimum Speed:
It has wings and can hover/glide in 40k. Zero.

Manouvreability:
Very high -  living creature that can flex along the length of its own body is going to be able to out-turn even the best jet.

Thrust:
Similar logic to manouvrability - Whilst max speed may only be low, it should essentially be able to go from standing start to full speed and back again pretty much at will. Suggesting 2 to start with.

Maximum altitude:
The background does talk about them soaring high in the sky, but certainly they shouldn't be in altitude 9 rocket booster territory. I'm tempted to say 8 if only to allow them to fire on anything, but I'm unsure.

Hits:
Very much a matter of opinion, since we're talking wounds/toughness to vehicle comparison here, but at T8, W6, Sv3+ it can take a ferocious beating, easily on a par with marauders or a thawk, so I'd be tempted to claim 4 hits as a starting point.

Transport:
A point of transport generally represents about ten dudes, so twenty gargoyles equals transport 2. Automatically jump infantry, obviously.

Pilot skill:
I'd say 3+ - these creatures are evolved as flying monsters. They are the aircraft, and as such have a 'piloting' ability only eldar are going to match. They may not bail out (obviously), but may attempt an Extreme Manouvre even if not an 'ace'.


Weapons:

I see three - a pair of bio-cannon, which (embedded in the wings as they are) will be front arc only, the two scything talons, and the gargoyles (it's a canonical thing that one of the tyranids preferred AA tactics is massed gargoyle birdstrike)

Bio-Cannon:
The Bio-Cannon is a scary, scary weapon - each one is the equivalent of six lascannons or missile launchers in power, and with ridiculously fast autofire it should be able to hit air targets no problem.

Taking the example of the standard imperial twin las and scaling up, that would give the two bio-cannon each stats of 0/3/3, 2+ ED5+, for a total of 0/6/6, 2+, ED5+.
I have two problems with this: One, this is immensely harsh. Two, having that much firepower at long and medium range and none up close seems wrong. Imperial twin las get no shots up close because they're hard to aim and slow to fire. This is a rapid-firing weapon on a flexible mount (wing joint). Lastly, tyranids as long range specialists feels wrong.

Second possibility - use the autocannon range profile and copy the las or missile launcher damage profile. 8 shots (or at least 4 twin-linked) is the output of a thud's nose guns, whilst 12 shots (or at least 6 twin-linked) is a marauder's nose guns. 6/9/0, 3+, is still scary as but it's not ridiculous long-ranged death.

Talons:
'Collisions' - mines and grot bombs are a short ranged attack. Two dice, left/right, at short ranged only but with damage unpleasant (2+/5+?) covers that nicely


Gargoyles:
Again, short ranged. This is essentially gargoyles throwing themselves into the path of another fighter. Damage will be low but with lots and lots of dice. Aft arc of fire only, but up or down. Assuming two thirds of them get vaguely into birdstrike position, that's a scary 12/0/0, 6+ attack. Obviously one use only, and costing you your transported troops.




So - for a starting version:

Harridan



Max Speed: 2
Min Speed: 0
Thrust: 2
Max Altitude: 8
Hits: 4
Troops: 2 (Jump Troops)
Manouvreability: Very High

Weapons
Bio-Cannon, Front, 6/9/0, 3+
Scything Talons: Left, Right, 2/0/0, 2+, Extra Damage 5+
Gargoyles: Rear, 12/0/0, 6+

Special Rules: If a Harridan expends its Gargoyles, it loses its transported troops.



Offline Easy e

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Re: Tyranid Concept(s)
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 08:16:30 AM »
That seems pretty cool.  I like your careful thought process, and how you walked us through why you made certain choices. 

A couple of things I would consider. 

1. I would lower the altitude Max a bit.  Maybe 6 or 7.  After all, it still needs whatever a Harridan breathes to operate, and once you start getting too high, things don't go so well for breathing.   

2. Speed 2 is really hard to do much with, as you would be going over your max speed and stalling performing some maneuvers.  I think 3 is acceptable, as it should be as fast as a Helicopter equivalent (i.e. Valks and Vultures). 

3. Thrust 1 I think works better as it actually has to build and use momentum, and flap its wings to get going, and again use its wings to slow down. 

4.  I think extra Damage 6+ for the Bio-cannons is OK. 

The real trick is going to be the Points cost.  I am interested to see where you go with this. 

I'm also interested in if you will be going off the beaten track for coming up with "New" Tyranid constructs.  Since 40K is primarily a "ground" game we don;t get much emphasis on the flying creatures.  It is entirely possible there are hundreds of Tyranid constructs just for fighting in the sky that have never been explored in 40K or Epic.  Just a thought.     
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